Kobe Bryant will go down in history as just a healthy Tracy McGrady

[djohn2oo8]

Duncan Did it in 2005 ... with Horry and Oberto ...

Olajawon did it with Thorpe and the same Horry you just slighted ....

He had Horace Grant in Orlando ...

Dont mean to make it a bash session I respect Shaq, just like you should Kobe. But because Shaq is funny and not a ass like Kobe, appears to me yall seem to give him a pass on his faults because he dunked on both your HOF big men at once and can crack jokes. I saw Kareem in 1980-1982, Olajawon's double clutch, and Moses fo fo fo Shaq had only his MVP season where he truly put up a season like Duncan in 2003 and 2005 or the seasons I just mentioned. Sure he scored more but in 2000 I thought shaq wa son his way to possible GOAT status ...shame he got fat and lazy.

Hakeem had a prime Horry though

[Koolaid_Man]

And that is why I give Duncan a slight edge on Shaq and one on Kobe too before the past 3 seasons ....

But Kobe was once a great defender, much like duncan but neither are that good anymore.

fail....Duncan could never play 1:1 defense like this...he was a slow big man parked in the paint that got most of his blocks off of help defense. He was too slow to stay in front of his man unless his man was Shaq...and Duncan didn't have to defend the top talent night in and night out that the 2 gaurd position demands...Kobe had to carry the load on offense and defense while Duncan only had to score while Bowen did the defensive work on the tough assignments...sorry but dem the facts...and here it is again:

[ElNono]

Duncan Did it in 2005 ... with Horry and Oberto ...

Olajawon did it with Thorpe and the same Horry you just slighted ....

He had Horace Grant in Orlando ...

Dont mean to make it a bash session I respect Shaq, just like you should Kobe. But because Shaq is funny and not a ass like Kobe, appears to me yall seem to give him a pass on his faults because he dunked on both your HOF big men at once and can crack jokes. I saw Kareem in 1980-1982, Olajawon's double clutch, and Moses fo fo fo Shaq had only his MVP season where he truly put up a season like Duncan in 2003 and 2005 or the seasons I just mentioned. Sure he scored more but in 2000 I thought shaq wa son his way to possible GOAT status ...shame he got fat and lazy.

I respect Kobe's talent. I also think Shaq has been an ass too behind that circus show he used to like to put. And there's no doubt the way he ended his career was a disservice to himself.

Plus I was in full troll mode with that other Lakerfan when you stepped in with your serious analysis. Sometimes we're just having fun, tbh.

[Killakobe81]

Hakeem had a prime Horry though

Rookie or near Rookie Horry yes, prime I would not say that. no way it can be argued he was in his "prime" at that time except maybe as an athlete ...but not as aplayer not even close, fail.

[ElNono]

fail....Duncan didn't have to defend the top talent night in and night out that the 2 gaurd position demands...

What top talent Kobe had to defend at the 2? Rip Hamilton? Is that why he shot 38% and 17% from the floor?

[Koolaid_Man]

What top talent Kobe had to defend at the 2? Rip Hamilton? Is that why he shot 38% and 17% from the floor?

Throughout his career Kobe defended either the 1 or 2 and sometimes the 3...


here you go...Duncan had it easy compared to this...now you post Duncan's relative compe ion...


Offensive side: Reggie Miller, Allen Iverson, Grant Hill, T-MAC, Vince Carter, Michael Redd, Jason Kidd, Dwayne Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Paul Pierece, Ray Allen, Derick Rose, Steve Nash, Russell Westbrook, Rondo, Monta Ellis, Mike Bibby, Joe Johnson, Mike Finley, CP3, Baron Davis, etc etc

Defensive side: Ron Artest, Bruce Bowen, Arron Afflalo, Thebo Shefalosa, Dahntay Jones, James Posey, Tayshaun Prince, Doug Christie, Rueben Patterson, Matt Barnes, Tony Allen, Shane Battier, Raja Bell, Stephen Jackson, Eric Snow, Andre Igoudala, Nicolas Batum

[Killakobe81]

I respect Kobe's talent. I also think Shaq has been an ass too behind that circus show he used to like to put. And there's no doubt the way he ended his career was a disservice to himself.

Plus I was in full troll mode with that other Lakerfan when you stepped in with your serious analysis. Sometimes we're just having fun, tbh.

It's all good most of the time I just laugh but since we have no bball talk I decided to just share. I just read the book I referred to, and I thought Tex would only skewer Kobe for that Pistons series, but tex is a hard but fair man, and from what I understand even critiqued MJ for breaking the triangle.

I dont mind if anyone chews out Kobe's shot selection, infidelity etc. But Call out shaq, TMAc even Mj for theirs as well ...

[HarlemHeat37]

Kobe is unquestionably a top 10 player of all-time IMO, but Gasol in his prime is inarguably a top 50 player of all-time..

[Koolaid_Man]

I respect Kobe's talent. I also think Shaq has been an ass too behind that circus show he used to like to put. And there's no doubt the way he ended his career was a disservice to himself.

Plus I was in full troll mode with that other Lakerfan when you stepped in with your serious analysis. Sometimes we're just having fun, tbh.

triple fail...you respect bcuz you have no choice...now crawl mutha er crawl...

[Koolaid_Man]

Kobe blocks Duncan 3 times in one game...talk about controlling the paint...

[Killakobe81]

I also don't get the TMAc fascination.
Man KI remember seeing like 2 of the 4 straight 40-50 point games Benard threw up before his knee blew out. amzing scorer, but I dont go around saying he would of been better than Bird, Lebron , Pippen etc if he had stayed healthy.

TMAc in his prime was an amazing talent very gifted scorer and better play-maker than Kobe. But besides his length, passing and maybe dunking he does not do anything better than Kobe did in his prime.

Great player but overrated, TBH. Not as much as Vince was who i liked a lot at UNC, but stop with the exaggeration. As nice as Biggie was you cant call him the GOAT rapper off of only two (amazing) albulms ...

[Killakobe81]

For the record taking the analogy further:

MJ = Jay-z
Kobe = Andre 3000 (talented but weird knows he should hold the throne, but wants to do it his own way)

TMAC= Biggie .... nah no, he dont even get that status maybe more like 50, or heck even Ja Rule hot for a while but fell off before full potential is reached.

[Koolaid_Man]

I also don't get the TMAc fascination.
Man KI remember seeing like 2 of the 4 straight 40-50 point games Benard threw up before his knee blew out. amzing scorer, but I dont go around saying he would of been better than Bird, Lebron , Pippen etc if he had stayed healthy.

TMAc in his prime was an amazing talent very gifted scorer and better play-maker than Kobe. But besides his length, passing and maybe dunking he does not do anything better than Kobe did in his prime.

Great player but overrated, TBH. Not as much as Vince was who i liked a lot at UNC, but stop with the exaggeration. As nice as Biggie was you cant call him the GOAT rapper off of only two (amazing) albulms ...

"We were on the bus and Luther ( Head) yelled out, 'Kobe's got 70-something and there's four minutes left.' I said, 'Luther, stop lying.' I hurried up and got my key and went to my room and called one of my boys to put on the game and Kobe was at the free throw line with 79 points. I said, 'Are you serious?' I don't think I could score that many in a video game. I talked to Mike ( James) after the game. He said they didn't double team him — not one time. You would think after he hit 40, send two or three guys at him. When he hit 50? When he got 70? What are you doing: playing him one-on-one?"

[ElNono]

Throughout his career Kobe defended either the 1 or 2 and sometimes the 3...

Who did he guard in the Pistons series? Rip, Chauncey? Tay?

here you go...Duncan had it easy compared to this...now you post Duncan's relative compe ion...

Duncan having it easy... Shaq, Rasheed, KG, Malone... piece of cake.

comparing a complete defensive anchor vs an overrated 2nd fiddle chucker

[Koolaid_Man]

I said, 'Luther, stop lying.' I hurried up and got my key and went to my room

[ElNono]

Kobe blocks Duncan 3 times in one game...talk about controlling the paint...

do you remember how that season ended?

[ElNono]

I also don't get the TMAc fascination.
Man KI remember seeing like 2 of the 4 straight 40-50 point games Benard threw up before his knee blew out. amzing scorer, but I dont go around saying he would of been better than Bird, Lebron , Pippen etc if he had stayed healthy.

TMAc in his prime was an amazing talent very gifted scorer and better play-maker than Kobe. But besides his length, passing and maybe dunking he does not do anything better than Kobe did in his prime.

Great player but overrated, TBH. Not as much as Vince was who i liked a lot at UNC, but stop with the exaggeration. As nice as Biggie was you cant call him the GOAT rapper off of only two (amazing) albulms ...

We're talking about a potential "healthy" T-Mac giving a . He was as good or better scorer, as gifted athletically, better playmaker, and he had everything to be a force defensively. What a waste.

[Koolaid_Man]

Who did he guard in the Pistons series? Rip, Chauncey? Tay?



Duncan having it easy... Shaq, Rasheed, KG, Malone... piece of cake.

comparing a complete defensive anchor vs an overrated 2nd fiddle chucker

Malone over the Hill....KG owned Duncan... slapped him and everything... @Rasheed...Shaq laziness and all still has edge....

[Koolaid_Man]

do you remember how that season ended?

was that the sunset season

[ElNono]

Malone over the Hill....KG owned Duncan... slapped him and everything... @Rasheed...Shaq laziness and all still has edge....

lol @ KG owning Duncan, we cleaned the floor with KG's ass every time.

rememba det time when Rasheed sent your team packing in 2004

[Koolaid_Man]

lol @ KG owning Duncan, we cleaned the floor with KG's ass every time.

rememba det time when Rasheed sent your team packing in 2004

KG with no help...his work was more impressive to me...I'd take him over Duncan in a heartbeat...the fact that KG is still playing at a high level is a testament to his pedigree over Duncan...and let's face it Duncan is like 4 -1 when facing Kobe head to head...well if you throw in the 99 season I think 4-2...so cut KG some slack for the '10 loss to Kobe....

[ElNono]

KG with no help...

KG has to thank Kobe for his only ring. Garnett gets the credit for that severe beatdown in the final game that set a new record for the worst loss in NBA Finals history... Kobe settings new records, tbh

[pass1st]

I really don't know about AI's work ethic (other than his 'talkin bout practice' soundbite) but I still think he got about as much out of his ability as he could have. I'd say he more than reached his potential. It makes me think he worked pretty hard behind closed doors.

It wasn't that AI didn't hit his peak, but it's that he declined faster than he should have. People like to call him a warrior because of his injuries, but in all honestly they mostly happened because he never conditioned himself during the post-season/pre-season as much as somebody with his amount of playing should have. Work ethic doesn't always determine your peak, but it always determines how long a heavy-minute player will last in the league. Also, it makes a player compensate for declining athleticism.

The GOATs live in the gym, the rest retire on the bench.

[joshdaboss]

Tracy McGrady? Vince Carter s all over Tracy McGrady in terms of talent and potential.

[midnightpulp]

I think McGrady reached his ceiling offensively; he couldn't get to the rim the way Jordan did pre first retirement, which is about what it would take to improve on his already spectacular offensive game. He should have been a way better defensive player though. TMac has a great wingspan for a 2/3, and had he not gone to Orlando where Doc Rivers was scared of burning him out, I think he could have become one the game's all-time elite defenders. He was fast, agile, had great height and wingspan, an elite vertical, and could get up off his feet quickly... on paper he had all the tools to become the kind of lock-down attack dog Scottie Pippen was on the defensive end all those years. At times it looked like he was becoming that player in Toronto.

Yep. When McGrady actually tried on defense during his Toronto days, he was lock down.