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LeBron is right up there, considering he plays both ends of the floor, but Duncan has the accomplishments.
I agree that Duncan isnt the all time best PF
LeBron is right up there, considering he plays both ends of the floor, but Duncan has the accomplishments.
people overrate him when they say hes better than shaq and kobe
sons you can hate on me all you want, you can hate on the Hornets all you want, and you can hate on other players like Kobe and LeBron all you want ... but the truth is the truth and you can't deny the facts.
Tim Duncan who is supposed to be considered "the greatest power forward of all time" or "one of the greatest big men of all time" is ranked 33rd in total career points scored and ranked 22nd in total career rebounds. those are the facts and for someone who some consider to be the best at his position or one of the best big men ever, those numbers are absolutely pathetic when compared to other all time greats. then if you mix in the fact that he started declining at such a young age (around 30 years old) it makes him look even more weaker when compared to other greats.
at 34 years old ...
Duncan put up 13 and 8
Malone put up 27 and 10
Jordan put up almost 29 and won a le
Wilt put up 20 and 18
Elvin put up 23 and 11
Kareem put up 24 and 8
Barkley put up 15 and 11
Hakeem put up 23 and 9
Moses put up 19 and 10
Bird put up 19 and 8
need anymore?
You keep propping up Kobe and and denigrating Duncan and I just may be forced to re-evaluate our relationship....
son its not about picking favorites or hating on players for no reason. the truth is the truth. both Duncan and Kobe are terribly overrated, but more so Duncan.
Well BR when you challenge me you need facts not emotions...
Facts:
Kobe is # 6 all-time scoring...passed Hakeem, Moses Malone, and Elvin Hayes this past season and will pass Shaq next season...
Kobe is # 50 all-time in assists...quite a feat for a 2 guard.
He did all of this while playing with the the most ball-dominant big man in history. You would think that Shaq's presence would have prevented Kobe from achieving this... Now I could have accepted your argument had he not rang twice post Shaq...but he did and now has 5 les...Kobe has made the case that Shaq needed him more than he needed Shaq...he proved it by ranging twice more...so I need something from you more than just emo....
I can see where you are arguing from, and obviously I'm a Spurs homer, but your logic is flawed.
A.) Duncan's minutes are FAR FAR less than any of those guys. (But you're right, his value drops since he's not on the court). However, on a per 48 min. basis he is still close to 20-10. He played 28 minutes a game last year and took on a diminished role instead of trying to dominate past his prime (cough Kobe cough).
B.) Duncan's career is not over, whereas most of the people you listed are retired. Granted, he only has 1-3 years left in his career. You are not accounting for where he will end up.
C.) Defense. Duncan's defensive presence in his prime was uncanny. He could guard anyone and coupled with Robinson they formed a towering front line that opposing teams had to counter with excellent outside shooting.
D.) Playoff performances. Too many times to count Duncan has come up big in the playoffs. Excluding the last year where Memphis waxed his ass.
E.) Passing. One of the best big men to share the ball when double teamed.
I think when Spurs fans argue for Duncan, it's because we have watched every dimension of his game. He was EXCELLENT at everything he did. He may not be the best PF of all time but he certainly deserves to be mentioned. But every Spurs fan will think he's the best because we were blessed with the opportunity to watch him day in and day out.
The only thing Timmy really did sub-par was free throws.
Last edited by Namundy; 08-28-2011 at 10:04 PM.
Plus BR I have these opinions:
son Kobe is a superstar, Duncan never was.Well BR when you challenge me you need facts not emotions...
Facts:
Kobe is # 6 all-time scoring...passed Hakeem, Moses Malone, and Elvin Hayes this past season and will pass Shaq next season...
Kobe is # 50 all-time in assists...quite a feat for a 2 guard.
He did all of this while playing with the the most ball-dominant big man in history. You would think that Shaq's presence would have prevented Kobe from achieving this... Now I could have accepted your argument had he not rang twice post Shaq...but he did and now has 5 les...Kobe has made the case that Shaq needed him more than he needed Shaq...he proved it by ranging twice more...so I need something from you more than just emo....
Kobe is an outstanding individual player, but doesn't make his team better
Duncan is a solid teammate who fits into Pop's system about as good as any player can.
Kobe can't lead a team without another superstar on the team
Duncan can't lead a team without playing on defensively stacked teams
Kobe gets the nod over Duncan simply because he can take over a game and score at will. Duncan has never ever made anyone say "wow". Kobe has and that is why he gets the nod over Duncan.
remember sons we are talking about individual players, not team success.
sons the "minutes" argument for Duncan is pure ignorance and a downright stupid excuse. if anything it just goes to show you how out of shape, fallen off, and weak Duncan is if he can no longer play a decent amount of minutes at such a young age.
LOL still hating on the great one I see..... Keep it up my man it will not give your team one ing le nor a HOF player near his caliber in your franchise history.
Over 20,000 points, 10k boards and top ten blocks, how many are there? Yeah you bruh...... Great one .
These are empty stats. What are their PERs? How many more shots did it take them to get those PPG averages? How many minutes were they playing? What was the pace during that particular era? How many games did their teams win?
Don't bring logic to this got! Him and Lakaluva should have been banned already with their tired acts, both are nothing but idiot trolls. SONS!
Let's take some of these 1 by 1..
What does it mean to say that he doesn't make his teammates better...seriously the only people that say this are people who've never played (non-street) compe ive ball.Kobe is an outstanding individual player, but doesn't make his team better
Practice is where you make your teammates better...by pushing them, yelling at and encouraging them. Fact is Kobe made every single teammate better by simple virtue of demanding excellence from them, by putting pressure on them to step up and perform. Gasol and Odom are classic examples at the highest level of Kobe making his teammates excel and they admit as much.
Fact is no player in the history of the league with the exception of Hakeem won les without help. You have to have good and decent and sometimes even hall of fame players to help you win...Ala MJ and Pippen...MJ proved he couldn't win without Pippen...and getting Rodman was a dozey...Kobe can't lead a team without another superstar on the team
Fact also is that Gasol is not a superstar, he's a star but hardly a superstar. Not hype but fact...
Actually we're talking both...Kobe's a great individual talent who transformed that into a great team success for quadrillion of lesremember sons we are talking about individual players, not team success.
son did you even bother reading the thread le? see that's the problem with most Spur fan defending Duncan. they are just too ignorant and homerish to understand the facts.
son to answer your questions ... there are 32 players who have scored more than "the great one" as you call him. and there are 21 players who have grabbed more boards than him as well. the dude isn't anywhere near the top in either main category.
Duncan is 8th all time in blocks. What about that BRHobbit?
Last edited by BoricuaCJA; 08-28-2011 at 11:23 PM.
son no he isn't. he is 10th in blocks overall and 9th in the NBA only.
at least get your facts straight, but LOL at you bragging about blocks and ignoring the bigger stats that actually matter like rebounds and points.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...lk_career.html
BR is mad pissed right now.
I know BR is trolling GNSF, but I'll take the bait:
The only stats that matter, playoff stats:
Duncan:
28th all-time PPG
14th all-time in RPG
5th all-time BPG
6th all-time PER
.502 FG% while BR's lover, Karl Malone, shot a pathetic .463 from the field in playoffs. Terrible for a big man. And BR, I know you're an efficiency guy, so you have to find Malone's drop off to that number unacceptable, especially considering Malone played half his career in the "no defense" 80s and early 90s.
All it does is combine individual stats, adjusts them for pace, and arrives at number.
But I understand you laugh because Kobe's playoff PER is relatively low for a "superstar."
lol trying to twist and spin the facts around as many ways as possible .... "but but but! his per is good when he plays! so is Blair's per right now and that is why he is the best big man in the NBA today!!" - typical Spur fan
lol at Karl Malone's awful .463 shooting percentage in the playoffs. In his first significant playoff run that saw him reach the finals for the first time, he shot a pathetic .435, and often deferred in the clutch to Stockton. You can't have so many INDIVIDUAL playoff failures and be called the greatest PF of all time.
God bless, son.
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