One Regular Season MVP and this Clown is the next best guy after Jordan?

[Killakobe81]

Kobe is not the next best, unless you talking just SG ...

But he has been the best player SINCE MJ ...

[Giuseppe]

Swept by the Mavs

Kobe: 5

tired old bag Duncan: 4

[Giuseppe]

At least Duncan has won over Dirk in the playoffs. What about Kobe?

...

Kobe: 5

tired old bag Duncan: 4

[DMC]

Kobe is not the next best, unless you talking just SG ...

But he has been the best player SINCE MJ ...

Coming from someone who's user name is Killakobe81, I don't know how much water that holds.

[Jeff Leppard]

That bucket has a hole in it.

[Ashy Larry]

Kevin McHale had some pretty sick post moves tbh

where I got alot of my moves from especially that up and under.


As far as the regular season MVP award goes, it's media driven. Kinda iffy. Really strange to think that Shaquille O'Neal has only one. That's pretty criminal.

[Ashy Larry]

At least Duncan has won over Dirk in the playoffs. What about Kobe?

Very true. What about head-to-head matchups?


I mean based on that rational, Michael Spinks is better than Muhammad Ali because he defeated Larry Holmes and Ali didn't .........

[Killakobe81]

Coming from someone who's user name is Killakobe81, I don't know how much water that holds.

If that is the case, then about 75% of the posters upstairs have no credibilty ...

[Killakobe81]

lol thinking that calling someone "a glorified Kevin McHale" is some kind of burn just proves you know about basketball.

didnt say it was a "burn" my reply was meant to be stupid the fact, that you did not "get it" speaks to my intelligence, not yours. Sarcasm ...look it up.

And Mchale was great, just like Kobe and duncan. Spur fans are the ones that act like saying Kobe is better is some kind of "burn" on Timmy ...

Duncan is great just not as good as Kobe that is not an insult, just a fact. The fact that they are two of the best players ...if you that think duncan is better ...that is no insult either. You are wrong, but no insult. It's just like those that choose Bird over Magic, that is not an insult it's just not true.

[Killakobe81]

kobe ain't anymore the player he was tbh, duncan used to be damn good too but now hes just a role player because of aging. kobe isn't much better imho dude just doesn't accept the natural decline, dude cracks up great numbers of shots only to keep his stats looking decent. dude should learn to play w/ better efficiency like duncan does imho, a way that helps his team most

That style of playing sure did help against Phoenix, and Memphis ...dont think you should be using duncan or the spurs lack of playoff success as examples ... TBH.

[midnightpulp]

didnt say it was a "burn" my reply was meant to be stupid the fact, that you did not "get it" speaks to my intelligence, not yours. Sarcasm ...look it up.

And Mchale was great, just like Kobe and duncan. Spur fans are the ones that act like saying Kobe is better is some kind of "burn" on Timmy ...

Duncan is great just not as good as Kobe that is not an insult, just a fact. The fact that they are two of the best players ...if you that think duncan is better ...that is no insult either. You are wrong, but no insult. It's just like those that choose Bird over Magic, that is not an insult it's just not true.

Lol. It is not "a fact." If it was a fact, you'd be able to prove it, and you can't, since neither the stats nor the "eye test" show Kobe Bryant being the superior player to Tim Duncan.

Does Kobe have the better all around all-time regular season and playoff stats? No.

Does he have more individual hardware? No.

Is he the better defender. No. I know it's a hard comparison, since one is a big and one is a perimeter player, but throughout basketball history, big men have always had more of a defensive impact on the game, which is why Duncan is the clear choice. Any coach, GM, or armchair fan would even take a "good" defensive 7 footer over a great perimeter defender.

I don't mind it being your opinion that Kobe is a better player, but to unequivocally state that it's a "fact," a fact which you can't prove, is laughable.

[Killakobe81]

Lol. It is not "a fact." If it was a fact, you'd be able to prove it, and you can't, since neither the stats nor the "eye test" show Kobe Bryant being the superior player to Tim Duncan.

Does Kobe have the better all around all-time regular season and playoff stats? No.

Does he have more individual hardware? No.

Is he the better defender. No. I know it's a hard comparison, since one is a big and one is a perimeter player, but throughout basketball history, big men have always had more of a defensive impact on the game, which is why Duncan is the clear choice. Any coach, GM, or armchair fan would even take a "good" defensive 7 footer over a great perimeter defender.

I don't mind it being your opinion that Kobe is a better player, but to unequivocally state that it's a "fact," a fact which you can't prove, is laughable.

Obvioulsy it was opinion, nothing on here is realy a fact. Even MJ as GOAT is an "opinion" that people accept as fact. I was just getting a rise out of folk we cant prove anything for all the gaudy numbers Kobe has, duncan has better efficency numbers. Kobe has more rings but shaq is better than any of tim's team-mates ...

So there are no facts ...but to me, it's fairly obvious most places except here and on warriors world apparently ... LOL

[Killakobe81]

Lol. It is not "a fact." If it was a fact, you'd be able to prove it, and you can't, since neither the stats nor the "eye test" show Kobe Bryant being the superior player to Tim Duncan.

Does Kobe have the better all around all-time regular season and playoff stats? No.

Does he have more individual hardware? No.

Is he the better defender. No. I know it's a hard comparison, since one is a big and one is a perimeter player, but throughout basketball history, big men have always had more of a defensive impact on the game, which is why Duncan is the clear choice. Any coach, GM, or armchair fan would even take a "good" defensive 7 footer over a great perimeter defender.

I don't mind it being your opinion that Kobe is a better player, but to unequivocally state that it's a "fact," a fact which you can't prove, is laughable.

But there are stats that support Kobe, just like some support Duncan.

and LOL eye test would CLEARLY support Kobe so that to is pretty comical. An eyes test would probably support Malone over tim as well.

[midnightpulp]

But there are stats that support Kobe, just like some support Duncan.

and LOL eye test would CLEARLY support Kobe so that to is pretty comical. An eyes test would probably support Malone over tim as well.

How exactly?

The eye test is usually reserved for things like defense and playmaking and "game impact."

Duncan is a better defender than Malone and Kobe.

Duncan is a better playmaker than Malone, but behind Kobe, obviously, since guards are typically more versatile playmakers than bigs.

In his prime, Duncan was doubled and tripled on practically every possession. Karl Malone never drew the attention on the block like Duncan. Kobe receives his fair share of defensive attention, so I call this a wash.

Basketball IQ. In a vacuum, Kobe and Duncan are equals in this regard, but I give Duncan the edge because Kobe sometimes chooses the more difficult and spectacular play over the more simple and efficient one. Both are superior to Malone, anyhow.

So how does the eye test CLEARLY support Kobe and Malone? Oh, I know, cause both can fill up that PPG statistic!

[lefty]

Kobe: 5

tired old bag Duncan: 4

Celtic's Russell : 11

Let us proceed

[Killakobe81]

How exactly?

The eye test is usually reserved for things like defense and playmaking and "game impact."

Duncan is a better defender than Malone and Kobe.

Duncan is a better playmaker than Malone, but behind Kobe, obviously, since guards are typically more versatile playmakers than bigs.

In his prime, Duncan was doubled and tripled on practically every possession. Karl Malone never drew the attention on the block like Duncan. Kobe receives his fair share of defensive attention, so I call this a wash.

Basketball IQ. In a vacuum, Kobe and Duncan are equals in this regard, but I give Duncan the edge because Kobe sometimes chooses the more difficult and spectacular play over the more simple and efficient one. Both are superior to Malone, anyhow.

So how does the eye test CLEARLY support Kobe and Malone? Oh, I know, cause both can fill up that PPG statistic!

Hmm ...when both in their primes ...and played head to head most games ...

Kobe is the better ball handler

The more versatile defender

Better FT shooter

For his size the better rebounder

better dunker

better passer

better jumper

better midrange game

better in transition

Duncan is clearly the better post defender and scorer and had a better bank shot but Stevie Wonder, in a dark basement blindfolded at midnight could see that Kobe was the better player watch the playoffs in 1999-2002 or in 2008 mor etimes than not when going head2head Kobe has been the better player.

LOL eye test ... come on duncan is a great player but in an eye test Robinson in his prime leaps off the screen not tim. Tim does a lot of the subtle fundamental thing sthat leads to winning ball ...I dont dispute that.

But you take two neutral parties to watch the handful of playoffs between the teams and i bet most folks outside of SA will tell yoyu Kobe is the greater player ...

[DMC]

If that is the case, then about 75% of the posters upstairs have no credibilty ...

*crickets*

[DMC]

Hmm ...when both in their primes ...and played head to head most games ...

Kobe is the better ball handler

The more versatile defender

Better FT shooter

For his size the better rebounder

better dunker

better passer

better jumper

better midrange game

better in transition

Duncan is clearly the better post defender and scorer and had a better bank shot but Stevie Wonder, in a dark basement blindfolded at midnight could see that Kobe was the better player watch the playoffs in 1999-2002 or in 2008 mor etimes than not when going head2head Kobe has been the better player.

LOL eye test ... come on duncan is a great player but in an eye test Robinson in his prime leaps off the screen not tim. Tim does a lot of the subtle fundamental thing sthat leads to winning ball ...I dont dispute that.

But you take two neutral parties to watch the handful of playoffs between the teams and i bet most folks outside of SA will tell yoyu Kobe is the greater player ...

Stevie doesn't read SI. They picked Tim as the player of the decade. Guess they don't have it in braille.

[DMC]

...

Kobe: 5

tired old bag Duncan: 4

I saw something on TV that made me think of you and how I could possibly assist you in your pursuit of happiness.

Get some of that expanding foam from Home Depot, insert the straw attachment and stick it up your ass. Put about half a can in there. Once it expands, you might get a semi-fluff good enough for manual stimulation. Don't do it without opening a few windows first. The gas you will release will likely be toxic.

[midnightpulp]

Hmm ...when both in their primes ...and played head to head most games ...

Kobe is the better ball handler

The more versatile defender

Better FT shooter

For his size the better rebounder

better dunker

better passer

better jumper

better midrange game

better in transition

Duncan is clearly the better post defender and scorer and had a better bank shot but Stevie Wonder, in a dark basement blindfolded at midnight could see that Kobe was the better player watch the playoffs in 1999-2002 or in 2008 mor etimes than not when going head2head Kobe has been the better player.

LOL eye test ... come on duncan is a great player but in an eye test Robinson in his prime leaps off the screen not tim. Tim does a lot of the subtle fundamental thing sthat leads to winning ball ...I dont dispute that.

But you take two neutral parties to watch the handful of playoffs between the teams and i bet most folks outside of SA will tell yoyu Kobe is the greater player ...

Let's see, Spud Webb is a

better ball handler

more versatile defender

Better FT shooter

For his size the better rebounder

better dunker

better passer

better jumper

better midrange game

better in transition

than Shaquille O'Neal. Just because Kobe has more "skills," which I would expect a guard to have more of than a big, does not make him the better basketball player in a team context.

Oh, and you mean "watch the playoffs in 00-02" when Kobe was torching the likes of Danny Ferry, Steve Smith, Terry Porter, and Sean Elliott? And no, head2head playoff stats do not indicate Kobe has the better player "more times than not."

Here's their head-to-head numbers when they faced each other in the playoffs:

Duncan: 48%FG, 13rpg, 4.2apg, .73spg, 2.36bpg, 25.2ppg

Kobe: 47%fg, 5.3rpg, 4.6apg, 1.4spg, .23bpg, 27.2ppg

Sure, they split the categories 3 to 3, but Kobe homers often claim that "Kobe on Duncan," and in 2 of the 6 categories (rebounds and blocks), Duncan bests Kobe by 2 and 1/2 and 10 times, respectively. While Kobe only doubles up Duncan on steals.

Also, a Kobe Bryant led team has never beaten a prime Tim Duncan led team (we know Duncan wasn't in his prime in '08), while Duncan went through a prime Shaq and Kobe twice. That said, head to head matchups are meaningless to me. It's not like the two players in question were defending each other. Besides, when a team beats another team, it shouldn't be "Duncan beat Kobe" or "Jordan beat Magic," etc, etc. It should be "Team A beat Team B.

Real talk, I'm not Kobe hating. I just don't see any evidence that suggests he's been the better player than Duncan thus far. And I don't give a what the "analysts" and "media" say. Do I think he will eventually surpass Duncan? Probably. Duncan is pretty much a role player now, and Kobe still has 2 or 3 years left of elite level play.

[Killakobe81]

Stevie doesn't read SI. They picked Tim as the player of the decade. Guess they don't have it in braille.

Sporting News chose Kobe ... better magazine by the way I held on to that one long after I cancelled SI. SI does have better pictures though ...

[Killakobe81]

DuncanOWNSKobe

Really? how so ...please enlighten us ...TC?

head2head? Nope.

Rings? Nope.

Points? Nope.

ASG starter selections? Nope well oops I forgot he is hiding at PF so myabe yes ...

Longer peak? Nope

Better prime? Nope

[DMC]

Sporting what? but but but... bleacher report... and uhhh.... Bob's Fill Dirt and Backhoe Repair Service Annual Sports Gathering chose Kobe...

If a blind man could see it, why couldn't SI see it?

You have pomp and cir stance surrounding your hero, but Tim is in an unpopular city, on an unpopular team, and brought them from relative obscurity to a powerhouse. Kobe did nothing of the sort for LA. Shaq put them back on top and after Shaq, Pau took them there. Kobe's selfish play (Phil's words) got him the MVP with ty shooting, but we all know Pau was the difference maker in those games.

Good player, yes of course, but no world shaker for LA. Magic did that already for them.

The fact that Tim is even compared to Kobe in this media driven market (or market driven media) is enough to cause even a casual observer to raise an eyebrow and want to look under the hood on this thing.

If Tim were in LA and Kobe in SA, Kobe would be TMac Rev 1.1 and Duncan would have 7 or 8 rings with Shaq (Shaq would have not left the team nor would Phil have quit the team).

So....

[Killakobe81]

Sporting what? but but but... bleacher report... and uhhh.... Bob's Fill Dirt and Backhoe Repair Service Annual Sports Gathering chose Kobe...

If a blind man could see it, why couldn't SI see it?

You have pomp and cir stance surrounding your hero, but Tim is in an unpopular city, on an unpopular team, and brought them from relative obscurity to a powerhouse. Kobe did nothing of the sort for LA. Good player, yes of course, but no world shaker for LA. Magic did that already for them.

The fact that Tim is even compared to Kobe in this media driven market (or market driven media) is enough to cause even a casual observer to raise an eyebrow and want to look under the hood on this thing.

If Tim were in LA and Kobe in SA, Kobe would be TMac Rev 1.1 and Duncan would have 7 or 8 rings with Shaq (Shaq would have not left the team nor would Phil have quit the team).

So....

LOL shaq and duncan on defense would be comical who gonna defend pnr?

[DMC]

Really? how so ...please enlighten us ...TC?

head2head? Nope.

Rings? Nope.

Points? Nope.

ASG starter selections? Nope well oops I forgot he is hiding at PF so myabe yes ...

Longer peak? Nope

Better prime? Nope

Duncan was never a side kick during a championship season

Kobe can attribute 5 rings to being a side kick. The years he was not a side kick, he the bed early on.