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A great article re: the position of owners.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...ning-positions
sems like good news im still gonna hold out hope lol
A great article re: the position of owners.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...ning-positions
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ycn-9114405
Billy Hunter tells players to be ready for end of lockout: A fan’s reaction
By Shawn S. Lealos, Yahoo! Contributor Network
9 hours, 43 minutes ago
Is the NBA lockout about to end? The way the spokespeople have been talking lately, the season is as good as over. The NBA owners want to strip the players of astronomical amounts of money and the players don't want to be hung out to dry. Head over to the Oklahoma City Thunder's official website and you will see nothing about the players. That's because owners demand that the organization pretend the players don't exist. Meanwhile, players prepare for careers in Europe, ready to prove they can still make money without the NBA.
The owners and players reps met recently and news came out they were still miles apart. Then, on Sunday, Sept. 11, on the first day of the NFL season, player rep Derek Fisher(notes) sent out a reminder to all the players, telling them to be ready for the season to start on time. Is this optimism considering that the NFL started on time despite naysayers barking that the season would be cancelled?
The news might just be hot air because Fisher should always remind players to always be physically ready to return to work. But even if it is, the news is still enough to get basketball fans excited. Fans of teams like the Oklahoma City Thunder have never been more excited with the improvements their team is making. The same rings true for fans in Memphis. Plus, imagine how excited business owners would be to know that they won't lose mass sums of profit due to a cancelled season.
This news followed ten hours of negotiations and, on Tuesday, Sept. 13, a big meeting will take place in New York City. This meeting will go a long way in determining whether the lockout might be coming to an end soon or a long term work stoppage is in the works. If things go bad, expect the NBA to face an uphill battle gaining fans back.
I remember back in 1994 when the MLB went on strike. They did it in the middle of the season and the World Series was cancelled. The strike lasted well into the 1995 season and was devastating for the sport. Fans turned their backs on baseball for a long period of time after the strike ended. If you want to know what a long term lockout can do, remember the fact that the Montreal Expos, a team on the rise before the strike, lost their fan base and ended up going out of business when the MLB purchased them in 2001 and moved them to Washington in 2004.
The MLB Strike destroyed a small market team. That can't make fans in Oklahoma City feel good if the meetings this week goes poorly.
Author Shawn S. Lealos is an avid sports fan who has lived in Oklahoma for over 40 years.
Source: CNN.COM
Note: This article was written by a Yahoo! contributor. Sign up here to start publishing your own sports content.
This is a nice take by a small-market fan, we can see he like the sport and the franchise. However stuff like "Plus, imagine how excited business owners would be to know that they won't lose mass sums of profit due to a cancelled season." shows he has no clue what's going on. Too bad he stayed on the "please please please make it happen" level.
Result of today's meeting: all these talks were BS. Players and owners are nowhere near close an agreement. Awesome...
The last ray of hope to have a full season seems to be the NLRB.
Actually it's worse than "nowhere near close an agreement". They are exactly where they were 2 months ago, period.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_960630.html
in' sucks. As dire as both sides have made things seem, I've still been sticking to the general convention of "there is too much money for both sides to lose to allow a lockout to happen". I figured the lessons from 1999 had been learned, and that we wouldn't really see another lockout.NBA Labor Talks: Players And Owners Make No Progress At Key Meeting
BRIAN MAHONEY 09/13/11 04:14 PM ET AP
NEW YORK — The start of the NBA season was thrown into doubt Tuesday after players and owners made no progress at a key labor meeting, with no further talks scheduled.
Union executive director Billy Hunter says players were prepared to make a "significant" financial move, but found owners unwilling to budge off their positions.
Union president Derek Fisher of the Lakers said he will tell players that "the way it looks right now we may not start on time."
Fisher added that "we can't find a place with the league and our owners where we can reach a deal sooner rather than later."
The two sides had initially planned to meet again on Wednesday.
After three meetings among small groups in the last two weeks, full bargaining committees returned to the table Tuesday.
The hope was that would move the process forward, but Hunter said owners are still holding to their desire for changes to the salary cap structure. A hard cap remains "highly untenable" to players, he said.
Training camps are scheduled to open Oct. 3 and the regular season's opening night is scheduled for Nov. 1.
Fisher, surrounded by a row of long faces among fellow NBPA executive committee members seated in a hotel conference room, said players are still committed to the process and "not walking away from the table." But Hunter repeated that players "have instructed us that they're prepared to sit out" rather than accept owners' current proposals.
I'm just now getting the feeling that may not necessarily be the case.
Well...looks like football will have to tide me over after all. Barring any last minute come to Jesus moment, it looks like there will be no basketball until the holidays or after.
NBA Lockout: Don’t panic, they are posturing
By Chris Sheridan
I am tweeting from afar on today’s lack of progress in NBA labor negotiations, and I am not the least bit surprised that everyone is emerging from the meeting in New York spewing doom and gloom.
That is what always happens when the owners’ and players’ full bargaining committees get together. It is a total dog-and-pony show, and anyone who expected the sides to emerge today with a sense of optimism was fooling themselves.
This dispute will get settled when there are a lot fewer people in the room. David Stern and Billy Hunter can reach a suitable middle ground by meeting by themselves for a couple hours, which was what happened back in 1999 when that lockout was settled.
Why would the owners want to budge now, just two days before the Board of Governors meets in Dallas? That meeting will serve to inform all the owners how strong their negotiating position is or isn’t, and they’ll emerge with a plan for moving toward a settlement now that they know what additional concessions the players are willing to make.
September 13 is not, and was never going to be, a movement day for the owners.
The time for them to improve their offer will come later this month, when the calendar dictates that it is time to move toward closure. In a labor negotiation, both sides do not make small incremental moves toward the center. They make a big leap when it comes time to make a big leap.
That time is not now. It is probably another two weeks away.
Today was a day for the owners to instill fear and put whatever the union offered them into their wallets. I’d say their mission was accomplished.
http://sheridanhoops.com/
Excerpts from an interview Wednesday with Phoenix Suns small forward Jared Dudley after an Impact Basketball League game in Las Vegas.
Dudley on what he's expecting from an NBPA meeting Thursday in Las Vegas: I'm expecting tomorrow them to come in and basically say we're at square one. We were where we were in July. Same offer, nothing. Just what their demands are and what they're sticking to. I expect us to come in with a game plan. I expect Billy [Hunter] to be open, talking to us about what we're going to do from here on. Because obviously the owners and David Stern have made their standpoint, so we have to make ours. I don't know what we're going to do. If we're going to accept the deal — which I almost 100-percent guarantee we're not — and where we're going to go from there.
Whether the increasing talk of decertification is distracting: I don't know if it hurts or not. At the end of the day it's going to come down to money, and basically how much the players are willing to give up. Because the owners really aren't right now willing to give up some. We already had an offer giveback, I think it was $200-300 million. We're trying to cut their losses as much as they can. For them … we're $800 million apart. So, is the decertification distracting? To me, it's not. To me, it's an option. It's an option that some of us are going to have to discuss. If we do do it, we have to do it the right way. But hopefully we don't have to. Hopefully we can sit down like they were doing last week and, hey, let's get to a common number. The hard cap? As a player myself, no guaranteed deals — that's basically what a hard cap is; no guaranteed contracts. It's not football. It's not injuries and everything. I understand that the common thing is they don't want players that make a lot of money not playing. Look, if you were a business or you were a restaurant, you don't pay someone that you think's not [working]. We're not going to put it all on the owners. We're going to take some of the blame. But, hey, we're willing to work on it. We're just not willing to give up guaranteed contracts and $800 million.
How much was the NBPA willing to concede in basketball-related income during a collective bargaining agreement meeting Tuesday in New York: I think they offered 53, 54 [percent]. We're at 57. They're looking more in the 40s. That's a huge jump — that's over 10 percent. That's where $800 million becomes a big gap. I think we have offered $300 million and they wanted more than that. At the end of the day, some owners wouldn't mind sitting out a whole year. Some owners don't want — you can't tell me [Jerry] Buss and [James] Dolan want to sit out the whole year. They might sound like; hey that's why they get fined overtime they talk. So, at the end of the day we can't worry about them. We have to come up with our own strategy. It's going to be curious to see what Billy Hunter's coming up with.
Players appearing to lack leverage during negotiations: The perception is probably the reality. Everytime we go in, we're trying to give them more and more. Obviously, let's be honest with you: we're all well off here. We make a lot of money. For me to give back a million dollars each year, it's a lot of money. But for us to play basketball and help the game out, I'm willing to do that. But to cut everyone's contract 40 percent, I might as well sit out a whole year. I can sit out two years. That's basically what's going to happen if I gave back 40 percent of my new contract.
NBPA's frustration level: We expected this. My frustration is at a five [out of 10]. Because when I was a rookie we knew there was going to be a lockout; why would anything change? Why would they want to start now? So for me being a player rep, I'm letting everybody know: Hey, this is what they're offering. At the end of the day we're not that dumb, to be honest with you. A lot of us went to college. A lot of us graduated. A lot of us are visual learners. Billy puts it out the platform: This is what they want, and this is what they're not willing to concede.
If owners don't relent on insistence upon hard salary cap, the season won't start on time: It has to come down. No, we won't start the season. I say that for me, my vote. And I say that, just in talking to Derek Fisher, talking to Billy Hunter. I mean, to not have guaranteed deals. We're not saying we'll give it back. I think [the NBPA] even went down, to be honest with you, to 53 [percent]. I talked to Roger Mason -- 53 percent. And you know what, let's say they went down to 52, 51. If that gets the season done, I guarantee you we would have the season if that's what it takes. But it's not just that, it's a lot. And right now, the owners want a lot and they're willing to sit out. Some are losing money, some are making money.
Push by players to decertify, or is the talk being driven by agents: You've got to look at it. Right now, we're looking at different options. The only option we have right now is stand our ground, be willing to wait a season or decertify. And decertify, the knowledge I know — which I'm not a lawyer — is after a year if you decertify, then you go to the law and it waits anyway. So basically, if you're going to sit out a whole year, you might as well decertify. Now, that's my opinion; I don't know. I want to start the season on time. So my goal is, hey, whatever you need us to do, we're united. You told people to save. If people didn't save their money, then they're going to be in trouble. They're going to be calling banks and maybe teammates, because we knew this is coming.
Reports about some players being unhappy with Hunter and ready to make a change: My general impression is Billy's doing the best he can. At the end of the day the people that aren't behind him don't know what's going on. Now, am I all for Billy and everything? All I do is what Billy tells me. We basically voted for these guys to lead us. So at the end of the day, it's like me and the Phoenix Suns. Steve Nash will give me the ball, now I'm going to ride with you until the end. We hired Derek Fisher, we appointed Billy Hunter, so we have no choice. At the end of the day, I'm going to give the ball to Steve. At the end of this negotiation, the ball's in your court Billy Hunter.
Owners seeing a division within NBPA because of agents' reported push for decertification: Agents are trying to change things. Agents are basically trying to switch up the game. Make the owners squeal a little bit. Right now, the owners are saying, Hey, this is our number, we want to sit out. Do we want to call their bluff? Agents try to decertify and switch it up. A lot of them are lawyers, so they know the implications behind it if somehow we won by lawsuit. And anytime you do a lawsuit it's 50-50, you have a 50-percent chance. Is there a division? I don't know. I have an agent in Mark Bartelstein. I know what he would prefer. At the end of the day I entrust him to do my contract. I entrust Billy Hunter to get a deal done. If Billy can't get a deal done and we have to wait a whole year, I'm still entrusting him and say, hey, we have to get something done.
Bartelstein being pro-decertification: Yes, he's pro that, and he's en led to his opinion. And I'm en led, hey, if decertification is a decision, I'm with it. I just don't understand why Billy and the agents can't sit down and do the pros and cons. To cut agents out would be foolish. That's what they're paid to do, is to negotiate. … [Arn] Tellem, [Dan] Fegan, I don't know why we can't be on the same side. … I would tell Mark, hey, I'm riding with Billy until otherwise.
Talking with Bartelstein and asking why the groups can't have joint discussions: His discussion is, Billy met with him. I don't think they want the agents with the players. I think their stance, I don't know. … If you're asking me my personal opinion, I would say because they don't want any division. Now our whole thing is united, us being together. And at the end of the day when you're losing money at the core, which everyone would be, you better be united. If not you're going to have — which I heard about today — meetings behind the door and all that. So that's what we don't want.
Clarifying comment that he's riding with Hunter now: When I say further notice, I classify that as Billy is looking, waiting for the an rust [NLRB?] that they served … that's his whole thing. My personal thing in talking to Billy somewhat and hearing what he says, he wants to wait that out. My whole thing is, when is that coming? Do we know? Is there a time limit for that? And we'll discuss that tomorrow. I'll very openly in discussions, hey, how long are you willing to wait that for, Billy? December? January? His whole thing is the next two weeks. I think we're waiting on that to make a decision on what we're going to do. I think he's opposed to [decertification]? No. I think he wants it to be the right timing. That's the word he used is timing. David Stern in the meetings said we keep using that as a ploy. We haven't used it as a ploy. I've never even heard Billy — Billy's opposed to that right now. It's going be curious. On Thursday, I expect it's a general meeting. Some players are going to speak up. Some players are going to say, hey, what's the game plan, Billy?
Decertification adding to the slow wait: … My thing is, let's say two months from now we're here doing these same interviews, you might as well have decertified anyway. That's my thing. I asked Billy one time, what are the negatives of decertification? … And he was kind of iffy on the answers. And that's something I'll bring up to him [tomorrow] to very openly discuss that. And he needs to discuss that. He's our leader.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsja...unter.html.csp
Interesting article,especially if true:
http://m.ocregister.com/sports/laker...-buss-nba.html
Article states the the Laker's Buss has caved in to the other owners desire for a hard salary cap. I can't imagine how the Lakers would be able to "transition" to a hard cap.
Thoughts?
Good news
Since the merger (1977) the number of small market teams (outside the top 10 metro areas) to win an NBA le has been......
well let's see Seattle, Portland, San Antonio............
A reason to be hopeful about the lockout is that it seems that owners and players are fine with players getting 52% of the BRI. If it's true, that's a huge step in the right direction.
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/09/20/l....ap/index.html
Staffs of NBA, to meet with Union tomorrow.
Stern, Hunter, & Fisher will not be in attendance, the owners are going to talk to the players without their leaders there.
I truly hope the season can start on time, doesn't look like the owners are interested in a shortened one.
Leadership talks tomorrow.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...ug=ap-nbalabor
Per Wojnarowski twitter: no progress has been made today. Part of the training camp should be canceled very soon.
We staaaaaacked
Bunch of overpaid little snots. How dare they not deliver something I feel I am en led to.
It's hard to have any kind of sympathy for millionaire players and billionaire owners fighting for money that either side doesn't need. It sucks for fans, who are the ones generating all that money. It sucks even more for people with a low salary and whose job is affected by this lockout.
And with at best a shortened trainign camp, Kawhi Leonard odds of getting significant minutes in his rookie year drop a lot. ing Pop and how he overrates trainign camp for rookies.
It's annoying me how some of the players act like we give a that they are united and won't give in (Durant for example). This whole thing isn't doing any benefit for the fans. We don't want to know if you guys aren't giving in. We just want a fricking deal.
First two weeks of the training camp will be cancelled tomorrow:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...p_delay_092211
If they can't find an agreement by mid October, regular seasons games will be cancelled too.
Do you know if that means all regular season games, or just some? Have they announced a deadline before the entire season would be lost?First two weeks of the training camp will be cancelled tomorrow:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...p_delay_092211
If they can't find an agreement by mid October, regular seasons games will be cancelled too.
They haven't announced deadlines.
If you take the 1998-1999 lockout as reference, the deadline before cancelling the whole season will be somewhere in January.
With the first game being played on November 1st this year, they have now basically 2 weeks to find an agreement and it doesn't look good at all. Reports saying that owners and players were fine with players getting around 52% of the BRI seems false:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/70...es-sources-say
It looks like the NBA won't take the NFL road and be able to keep a full season. They are self destructing their business which is just plain dumb.Stern, according to one source, told Hunter in Thursday's meeting the owners want to reduce the players' cut of basketball-related revenue to a figure well below 50 percent.
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