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Would you give up info if you were tortured?
Never been tortured.
Have you?
Yoni says he has been waterboarded.
Would you give up info if you were tortured?
Never been tortured.
Have you?
yoni says he has been waterboarded.
Then how can you know whether it's ethical or not?
How do you know murder is unethical if you've never been murdered?
If I poured water over your feet and called it waterboarding, would that cons ute torture?
My point is, there is a wide variety of practices, used over time, that have been variously called waterboarding. Some versions are torture. I'm satisfied the Bush administration did due diligence and arrived as a reasonable conclusion this version did not cons ute torture.
No court has tried the question of whether or not the Bush administration's version of waterboarding cons uted torture. Period.
Yeah, a court has. Period.
yeah courts change their positions all the time.
Why is torture in order to save lives bad?
They haven't on this.
Why is raping children in order to save lives bad?Why is torture in order to save lives bad?
Socratic method FTW...
Spoken by countless dictators/fascists across history.
raping children does not bring intel nor is it done in self defense like torture.
State an ethical case for why torture is wrong.
Last edited by Ignignokt; 09-19-2011 at 09:07 PM.
Really? Unless the jews posed an existential threat and they were holding intel that would kill millions of germans.. how can you equivocate.
I'm not the one running away from explaining why torture is evil by evading with such question.
Murder in the meaning of taking a life senselessly or for profit other than self defense or retalliation of innocent life is unethical because you deny a life to someone you that you also claim.
I illustrated a moral defense of why murder is unethical.
Why can't you do the same for torture?
at best he deflected. At worse he's alluded that murder is wrong because it "feels" wrong.
I don't see anything that socrates would be proud of.
If he anything, he's using a pathos argument for which the sophist who were socrates opponents at the time were known for.
Why is torture evil? Are you kidding? It's evil because it's torture - it's purpose is to inflict pain and distress whether or not it produces intel. More importantly, it's inflicted on people who may not even have intel to share, or worse, on people who aren't guilty or in any way associated with terrorism.
Wikileaks papers reveal plenty of innocent people at Gitmo too, so it's not just a "what if" scenario.
This argument lacks substance. At best it's tautological-circular argument. Please provide a valid reason why torture is unethical.
Incarceration is also inhumane, we could have convicted sex offenders that were innocent who will lose their whole life and get raped. So by the logic of the rest of your argument, we shouldn't incarcerate or rehabillitate criminals.
Chemotherapy is torture too.
Is pain a proper measure of ethics?
I believe we should try to treat all prisoners with dignity whenever possible. I also think that torture eradicates the ability to see another person as a person, instead of just an object. As well, there is always a chance that the person being tortured is either innocent or doesn't have information. In those instances, we are committing great pains upon a person without knowledge of whether or not they have done what we accuse them of.
Why not?
Why couldn't it bring intel?
Prove that it can't.
Have you ever been murdered?
Yes or no.
If we incarcerated people who haven't been on trial, I would definitely consider that inhumane.
As well, some forms of incarceration are inhumane by themselves. I think 24 hr isolation is inhumane, and should only be undertaken when a prisoner shows a history of attacking/threatening other inmates. In these cases, the liberty of the other inmates to be safe outweighs the inhumanity of isolation. (And yes, I understand that you feel the liberty of us to be free > torturing suspected terrorists.)
Torture that is volunteered for doesn't really fit the definition of torture as we're using it here.
You'd have to define that question a bit more. For instance, I would say it would be inhumane to pee on a prisoner, even though that doesn't cause any physical pain.
We're not talking about torturing for the sake of torturing.
We're talking about preventing loss of innocent lives. When you value the life of a murderer over the lives of an innocent, you have a poor heirarchy of values that is anti life.
In this case, you have a courier for a top high level terrorist, you need to extract info, why is it wrong to use torture if all options have been exhausted..?
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