It should also be noted that Kobe fails miserably in the WS department where Jordan is once again number 1 and Duncan is in the top 10, of course.
2005 Playoffs2005? That's funny seeing as how Duncan beat Ginobili in your favorite stat category, PPG. Please explain to me how Ginobili's FG% and lower point totals makes him better that year (oh the irony)
Duncan - 23.5 ppg on .526 %TS
Manu - 20.8 ppg on .652 %TS
the efficiency is way better, and the dudes a SG lol
2005 Finals
Duncan - 20.6 ppg on .471 %TS
Manu - 18.7 ppg on .636 %TS
a SG should not be shooting 12-16% better efficiency than a PF
I just have to face palm your re ation now.
Kareem and Hakeem would be expected to have a lower PER because they played a lot of seasons and their declining output at the end of their careers brought down their overall average, just like any other stat. Still, Hakeem is top 5 all-time in playoff PER. As for Bird and Magic, PER's one flaw is that it undervalues assists, so it might underrate them, but that said, when Bird was winning MVPs he also led the league in PER.
As for Kobe, I agree that he shouldn't be in the top 10, so no argument there.
So efficiency matters when comparing Ginobili to Duncan but not Kobe to Duncan?
LAWL
It should also be noted that Deuce fails miserably in the cognitive department.
he was the best player in the 2007 Finals, its not even a debate
the best player in the 2000s with 5 championships and 3rd alltime in playoff points not top 10?
there are 4 players in NBA History with 5 championships and multiple finals MVPs, can you name them?
This is why true shooting percentage is massively flawed. In a nuts , it would suggest that a player (A) who scored 18 points via the 3 pointer on 6 of 20 shooting has essentially the same percentage as the player (B) who went 9 for 20. What it doesn't account for is that player A gave the opposition 3 more possessions without a score than player B. If the opposition shoots 50%, player A gave back 3 more points than player B. And those extra points could wind up being the difference maker in a game.
But keep fighting the good fight with TS%, little guy.
Rings are a team accomplishment, though.
the best player in the 2000s with 5 championships and 3rd alltime in playoff points not top 10?
As for playoff points, if you play enough games, you're bound to pile up the points.
2 pointers
50/100 (50%) = 100 points
3 pointers
35/100 (35%) = 105 points
player A
8/16 FG
0/0 3s
6/6 FTs
22 points
player B
7/16 FG
2/6 3s
6/6 FTs
22 points
efficiency should take into account 3-pointers (like TS% does) and even FT% is important too
Last edited by Deuce Bigalow; 09-22-2011 at 12:13 AM.
You're incredibly re ed. Whose troll are you, seriously? If this is you, BUMP. Well done.
In your first example, the 3 point shooter is giving an extra 15 possessions without a score to the opponent! If the other team shoots 50%, that's an additional 15 points. Do you understand why 3 point shooting teams never win , even good ones? Because even optimally, the 3 point shot is a low percentage shot, and the worst thing you can do is give the opponent possessions when you don't score.
And in the second example, player B is still giving up an extra possession.
Player A takes 100 shots and scores 100 points
Player B takes 100 shots and scores 105 points
they took the same amount of possessions
One irrelevant game for the Lakers. They weren't even trying and they put 39 on your squad. Duncan went 3-14 against a team that wasn't even sweating it...thats gotta burn.
He went out like that against Kobe in 08 (7-19? really Jim???). And lets not forget his 10-27 in game 7 against Detroit (11 rbs...kobe had more boards too? damn, timmy)...or his 4-15 in game 4 against ty ass Cleveland and their decrepit frontline.It was ty, sure, but still, only a single game.
A 7-footer shooting that abysmally....thank god he had Manu, Horry, and Parker there to bail him out.
I'm saying though, Timmy is right at the rim? All he gotta do is reach up! All that height, for no reason.
Jim was in his prime and the leader of the team. How do you let that happen...in your prime? As the leader?And why are you laughing at Duncan getting swept? Last I checked, Kobe leads Duncan in that department, 3 to 2. That's another stat you should be very familiar with, considering it's identical to the number of Finals MVPs both players have.
I can understand tired old bag Jim last year getting his brakes beat off, and tired old bag Kobe taking it up the ass this year, but only one of them has been swept (with HC, and 39)....in his prime.
And this is supposed to be the greatest PF ever? Prime Dirk has some of the worst playoff collapses ever, but even he had enough pride to lead his team to one victory.
....
This is at the rim.
Kobe has never been the best player on the team throughout the playoffs or the regular season during a championship season.
If you don't trust me check the TS%.
Duncan has been the best player on his team during the playoffs and the regular season.(during championship seasons)
Kobe has never won a ring without a top 5 player on his team.
Duncan has won 4 rings without a top 10 player on his team.
Until these things change Kobe(2nd best player on his team) shouldn't be compared to Tim Duncan(best player on his team).
Why would kobe give a finals mvp to Pierce that he already had?
If anything Pierce should have gave it to Ray Allen or KG.
He already has two championships as the 2nd best player on the Spurs.
Duncan's game 7
25 points on 27 shots
11 rebounds
5 4th quarter points
Kobe's game 7
23 points on 24 shots
15 rebounds
10 4th quarter points
i know right, 2005 and 2007, Duncan was the 2nd best playerWhy would kobe give a finals mvp to Pierce that he already had?
If anything Pierce should have gave it to Ray Allen or KG.
He already has two championships as the 2nd best player on the Spurs.
i guess Duncan is better than Magic and Kareem, is that what your telling me?
Mr. mediocre 22/12 playoff run
and Duncan was not the best player in 2005 and 2007
All those bad performances and Duncan still has the better playoff stats and more Finals MVPs than Kobe Bryant.One irrelevant game for the Lakers. They weren't even trying and they put 39 on your squad. Duncan went 3-14 against a team that wasn't even sweating it...thats gotta burn.
He went out like that against Kobe in 08 (7-19? really Jim???). And lets not forget his 10-27 in game 7 against Detroit (11 rbs...kobe had more boards too? damn, timmy)...or his 4-15 in game 4 against ty ass Cleveland and their decrepit frontline.
A 7-footer shooting that abysmally....thank god he had Manu, Horry, and Parker there to bail him out.
I'm saying though, Timmy is right at the rim? All he gotta do is reach up! All that height, for no reason.
Jim was in his prime and the leader of the team. How do you let that happen...in your prime? As the leader?
I can understand tired old bag Jim last year getting his brakes beat off, and tired old bag Kobe taking it up the ass this year, but only one of them has been swept (with HC, and 39)....in his prime.
And this is supposed to be the greatest PF ever? Prime Dirk has some of the worst playoff collapses ever, but even he had enough pride to lead his team to one victory.
....
This is at the rim.
Must hurt to know that a player who's been swept with homecourt, went 10-27 in Game 7 of the Finals, and was bailed out time and time again is the more successful individual player than your boy.
You must feel like , homie.
List for me all the players with 8 or more playoff appearances who have put up 23 and 12 on 50%, and we'll see if it is indeed mediocre.i guess Duncan is better than Magic and Kareem, is that what your telling me?
Mr. mediocre 22/12 playoff run
and Duncan was not the best player in 2005 and 2007
Sorry again, dude, but 22.7, 12.4, 3.4 on 50% > 25.4, 5.0. 4.8 on 44%.
Kobe's first 2 years brought his average down
27.1/5/5 on 45% as a starter
Kobe's playoff runs during a championship, his best ones of 30/5/6, 29/7/6, 29/6/6 is better than Duncan's
If you say so fam. What I know is, you start the thread popping off about 39 this, and fg% that....then when Duncans -stains come to light you want to start copping pleas. If you want to eat that cake you can't have the too.
And if you want to talk giving MVP's back, 3-14 should have gave his up in '02 when Kobe shut the door on his le dreams, for not the first and damn sure not the last time.
....
How you gonna be AT the rim and sabotaging your team?
Wow. A whole 1.4 more points and .2 assists!
I can play that game too and say Duncan's last two years as a player past his prime brings down his overall average, But I don't make excuses.
And I already disproved your second point. Don't know why you keep restating it.
Like all of those shots were his. That's funny though.
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