"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal Occurs Today

[ElNono]

another great anecdote

Frankly, I have not heard many cases of heterophobia. On the other hand, you don't have to look further than this thread to see phobia in action.

[Yonivore]

Frankly, I have not heard many cases of heterophobia. On the other hand, you don't have to look further than this thread to see phobia in action.

I think people construing simple opposition to the lift of DADT as phobia is a form of heterophobia.

[ElNono]

I think people construing simple opposition to the lift of DADT as phobia is a form of heterophobia.

Lifting DADT didn't change the sexual preference of anybody.

DADT was immaterial to either phobia.

[Yonivore]

Lifting DADT didn't change the sexual preference of anybody.

DADT was immaterial to either phobia.

Okay, so why is my opposition to it being lifted labeled as phobia?

[ElNono]

Okay, so why is my opposition to it being lifted labeled as phobia?

I never called your opposition to DADT phobia. Quote?

[Yonivore]

I never called your opposition to DADT phobia. Quote?

I don't keep track of who says what. Fact is, my opposition to DADT being lifted has been characterized as phobic.

[ElNono]

I don't keep track of who says what. Fact is, my opposition to DADT being lifted has been characterized as phobic.

I can see how it would be characterized as such.
That said, you should go talk to whoever was pointing the finger at you.

If you don't care who that is, why should I?

[Blake]

I don't keep track of who says what. Fact is, my opposition to DADT being lifted has been characterized as phobic.

Seems more like you are showerophobic.

If they started giving everyone a little more privacy in the shower stalls, would you then be ok with putting gays on the front line?

[Yonivore]

Seems more like you are showerophobic.

If they started giving everyone a little more privacy in the shower stalls, would you then be ok with putting gays on the front line?

I'm okay with gays serving now.

[ChumpDumper]

It's characterized as thinking gays are turned on your naked body.

[scott]

I shudder to think how many instances of gay boners occurred in barracks showers across the world today.

[Yonivore]

I shudder to think how many instances of gay boners occurred in barracks showers across the world today.

Probably no more than before.

[ChumpDumper]

Probably no more than before.

Way to on your own argument.

[Wild Cobra]

I think it's a valid comparison. I think that those who are aged 40 and older overestimate the potential ramifications/problems.

I think anyone who thinks sex bias and race bias are equal, are fooling themselves. Race issues were simple bigotry. Integrating the gays in the military do have some who oppose it for reasons of bigotry, but what about those who oppose it for the same reason we don't have men and women bunk in the same rooms and share showers?

[LnGrrrR]

I think anyone who thinks sex bias and race bias are equal, are fooling themselves. Race issues were simple bigotry. Integrating the gays in the military do have some who oppose it for reasons of bigotry, but what about those who oppose it for the same reason we don't have men and women bunk in the same rooms and share showers?

To be frank, I'm not wildly excited about showering with other heterosexual men. Does that mean I should get my own shower?

[ChumpDumper]

I think anyone who thinks sex bias and race bias are equal, are fooling themselves. Race issues were simple bigotry. Integrating the gays in the military do have some who oppose it for reasons of bigotry, but what about those who oppose it for the same reason we don't have men and women bunk in the same rooms and share showers?

Those people need to realize they aren't that attractive.

[admiralsnackbar]

I think anyone who thinks sex bias and race bias are equal, are fooling themselves. Race issues were simple bigotry. Integrating the gays in the military do have some who oppose it for reasons of bigotry, but what about those who oppose it for the same reason we don't have men and women bunk in the same rooms and share showers?

It isn't clear gender divisions are any more necessary than gender-preference ones with respect to showering or latrine segregation. I know for a fact that the Germans (and Dutch as well, I believe) make no such concessions (although I don't know if that open-mindedness extends to co-ed co-habitation) without falling apart into orgies.

It's doubtless too much to ask of older Americans who've been raised to think of sex/sexuality in certain terms, but it certainly doesn't seem to be an insurmountable barrier for us as a species to have soldiers that could potentially be attracted to one another sharing space while fighting for a specific goal without degenerating into a simulation of the San Fernando Valley in the 70's.

As a side note: why are people who regularly complain about a nanny state so willing to dismiss the notion that individuals can be/should be responsible for their actions?

[ChumpDumper]

yoni's 51st state Israel has had gays openly serving for over 15 years.

yoni is an idiot.

[ChumpDumper]

In our search for published evidence in English and in Hebrew we have not been able to find any data indicating that lifting the gay ban undermined Israeli military performance, cohesion, readiness or morale. In addition, none of the thirty-five experts we interviewed could recount any indication that the lifting of the gay ban compromised military effectiveness. The comments of Professor Stuart Cohen, a Professor and Senior Research Fellow at the Center for Strategic Studies at Bar-Ilan University who has written extensively on the Israeli military, were typical of our findings: “As far as I have been able to tell, sexuals do not cons ute an issue [with respect to] unit cohesion in the IDF. In fact, the entire subject is very marginal indeed as far as this military is concerned”. In a recent interview for ABC news, Israeli Brigadier-General Oded Ben commented that Israelis show “a great tolerance” with respect to sexual soldiers in the military. Scholars, officials, NGO observers, and service members interviewed for this report echoed the theme of tolerance put forward by the Brigadier-General. When asked if she had experienced any problems because of her sexual orientation, for example, a female soldier who served between 1993 and 1996 stated: “I was quite amazed to find out that people either thought that my sexual orientation was ‘cool’ or were indifferent to it”. Amir Fink, the co-author of Independence Park: The Lives of Gay Men in Israel, argues that the IDF policy changes, among larger societal changes, have resulted in a more open at ude in the military: “I believe that … after the 1993 change in regulations there are more soldiers who are aware of the fact that there are gays in the unit and [that] they should treat them decently”.

http://www.palmcenter.org/node/554

[LnGrrrR]

yoni's 51st state Israel has had gays openly serving for over 15 years.

yoni is an idiot.

See? If they just forced the Israel military to stay in the closet, then they wouldn't be having any issues with the rest of the Middle East! [/yoni]

[EVAY]

How come the folks consistently in favor of government saying it is not okay to be an openly gay guy in the military are also the people consistently claiming that government is too intrusive in people's lives?

[ChumpDumper]

How come the folks consistently in favor of government saying it is not okay to be an openly gay guy in the military are also the people consistently claiming that government is too intrusive in people's lives?

Government needs to regulate things like shower erections.

[scott]

Anyone got an updated boner count?

[LnGrrrR]

Anyone got an updated boner count?

I'm pretty sure a portal to opened up somewhere on base today, with gay men wrapped up in S&M gear threatening to force all us heteros to our knees. Thankfully I didn't go near that area today.

[SnakeBoy]

This was ed up...




And Santorum is re ed... "any type of sexual activity has no place in the military"