That bas Manny is trying to steal my thunder.......
J/K of course, good find. I knew about it before you though
I really haven't had a chance to delve into it much yet although I got a call a few days ago from a colleague regarding this. I'll post thoughts later this evening (I've got a hot sushi date first.....).
At any rate, it will be interesting to see what level the uncertainty is at.
Neutrinos are a pain in the a* to measure. I bet the statistics are pretty hard to confine on this experiment.
Did anyone check their local clock with an external clock I wonder?
What if somehow, the tremendous rotating magnetic force, slowed the local time down?
Just a thought. I don't believe it necessarily happened, so don't beat me up over it.
Captain Spock:
An ancestor of mine maintained that when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
I guess they COULD be the absent minded professor...
Hey, they're apparently no Einsteins.
velocity is a relative thing which has no theoretical limits, there actually exist things faster than light but you can't see them because they are even faster than your eyesight.
This is gonna require another round of sake.
I was thinking perhaps another round of absinthe.
This is gonna require another round of sake.
For proof, just watch "The Incredibles." You really can't see that kid put the tack in the teacher's chair. I've watched it over and over again. It just happens too fast.
Yeah, I bet you the delay comes from the guy pushing the stop watch button with his thumb...
/sarcasm
It was very hard for me to not respond sarcastically.
Here's an image of the actual event:
Rofl
Is that a timex?? OOOO, I heard that it is the most accurate analogue stopwatch on the planet. Accurate to within 3.32423 seconds.Here's an image of the actual event:
Ok, Sushihana is always a great meal. Two carafes of sake and I'm good to go.
So, yes this is indeed remarkable since the error is reported to be 16.6% aggregate. However, this is not the first time neutrinos have been observed to travel faster than c.
The MINOS experiment opened at FERMILAB in 2005 to test, among other things, neutrino oscillation (more on that below). During the course of testing they too observed neutrinos travelling faster than c. The problem was in the error. It was quite large, so they dismissed the findings.
Here are some neat pictures of MINOS and a non-technical treatment of how neutrinos are produced for experimentation:
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/...o-detector.ars
To understand this sort of thing, one has to consider the sources of potential error in an experiment of this nature. The three primary ones are the measurement of the distance travelled, the TOF (time of flight), and then a more technical issue called the time structure of your beam. Without getting too technical, that relates to the way you select the protons which will produce your neutrinos. The link above touches on this concept when it discusses the "humming of the horns".
At any rate, the folks at CERN (their toy is called OPERA btw) say that even after accounting for those things, the error is low.
Two other factors to consider here are:
1) Neutrinos do in fact have mass, its simply a few orders of magniutde less than other elementary particles. Given that, its not unreasonable to assume that their velocities are a strong function of imparted energy. In English, it means that the energy of the beam will affect the average velocity measured (even perhaps above c). Why? Well, the interstellar/solar neutrinos we measure are of lower energies (~10-20 MeV). Since they're so light, it doesn't take much to get them going. I've included a link (sorry, its a bit technical) to a paper which covers the methods used in the MINOS experiment.
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/...706.0437v3.pdf
2) I mentioned neutrino oscillations above. This is a description of how they "transform" from one kind into another. There are three types, which are each paired to their leptonic namesakes (electron, muon, tau). This is part of the Standard Model in particle physics. It's been observed that muon neutrinos can "morph" into one of the other two subtypes (electron and tau). Many times, they leave the solid target as one type, and arrive at the scintillators as another. What does that mean? Well, potentially this "morph" requires a bit of energy, or conversely, may impart some which as I pointied out in the first reason can affect velocities. These oscillations violate the Lorentz invariance which speaks to the constanty of space-time. In short, this would allow for oscillations in a particle or non-particle state (again affecting energy and hence velocity). This is a very active area of research. Much more research is needed into the masses of the nuetrino subtypes.
Synopysis: There is much to be excited about if the calculated error is found to be accurate. I wouldn't hold my breath though.
PS - Sorry if some parts are technical, it's kinda unavoidable with this subject. I've highlighted some terms which might make more sense if you googled them.
The experiments are carried out using GPS timing. The signals are channeled underground using fiberoptic cables. Jitter of the GPS clocks cause an error of around 100ns usually, with a maximum being close to plus/minus 200ns (relative to UTC). If you add in detector time resolution and add the errors in quadrature, you're around 150ns. We use a probability density function (PDF....not adobe) to characterize the expected time distribution at the back detectors. Understand that the arrival time distribution at the back detector is similar, it's just that the relative jitter screws things up.
You mean the steering field for the protons? It's well characterized and doesn't require a timing correction in and of itself.
To explain the process a bit: the first hit on a scintillator is compared with the magent signal. We know the timing delays quite well and correct for them. The corrections are done separately for the front and back detectors.
Of course, theres the readout delay, electronic latency for both near and far detectors, distance between detectors, antenna fiber delays for both detectors. If you added them in quadrature you'd get around 60ns I'd guess.
lol, we used to have compe ions to see who could start/stop the LCD varieties the quickest.Here's an image of the actual event:
Yes, I looked this up. Never had the pleasure. How strong are the flavors?
Sake's my favorite these days, a very warm and jolly buzz.
Let's just put it this way, you MUST shoot it FAST. It is not for sipping.
It tastes strongly like licorice.
You can also watch D. Fisher take a game winner.
Cool news. Was bummed that speeds necessary to go way out an explore the universe would be impossible. Maybe not.
What has two thumbs and is about to jump the shark? That's right, THIS GUY.
Here is my comment:
It's amazing how scientists are constantly willing to revise, update and/or complete replace even the most fundemental "truths" of their field - whereas the non-scientists point to said willingness as a sign to their fallibility and the proof their wackjob theories must be right.
You may now return to your normally scheduled awe.
you have been on fire lately scott, is the business just running itself these days?
I mean, the Hot Carl of objective truth you dropped all over that taxes thread made it much better to read.
Thanks amigo.
I've been at home ill this week, that's why I've had so much time to post. I credit anything I've written that's had a positive contribution to the meds.
I believe anise is a major ingredient in both.
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