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Exposed? Sure, he's skated for years through the NBA picking up All Star appearances and a Finals MVP, but he's been faking it.
lol...
Spurs mainly had the clear advantage at pg and sf. They failed to use those advantages. Parker was an inefficient scorer that tried to do too much and didn't get others involved. Usually Parker scores efficiently and that makes up for his lack of passing ability. It might have made more sense for him to play more like Conley where instead of looking to score he was looking to get others involved.
Exposed? Sure, he's skated for years through the NBA picking up All Star appearances and a Finals MVP, but he's been faking it.
lol...
Everyone always wants Tony or Manu to play like the other team's players who've never made it out of the 2nd round, just because they lost to that team.
Did Memphis suddenly become the standard for excellence?
We can't deny that he is highly decorated, but so were guys like Marbury and Francis who both broke down and faded into oblivion. I am hoping he is as good as I've always thought, but something appears to be missing in his game - for whatever reason it has been becoming more obvious, especially over the past season.
Memphis tanked to get us, and then put their money where they mouth was.
They were the better team throughout the series. Hats off to them.
Maybe if we would've made it out of the 1st round, we wouldn't be talking about Conley, who, BTW, was playing his first playoffs series ever.
I agree TP was a mismatch to exploit. It just didn't happen. Not hating on TP for saying something that's fairly obvious.
So? They aren't a championship level team, not even close. We were ripe for the picking with Manu's last game injury and the team basically running on offense, no defense. That doesn't make Memphis any better than they were before, it just makes us worse.
There are plenty of players in the league you could use as a mold for a great PG. Conley isn't one I would instantly pick just because he was on the team that a old deflated Spurs team lost to.
It's like being last in the NASCAR race and saying you need your car to be like the 2nd to last guy, because he finished before you did.
Maybe if we would've made it out of the 1st round, we wouldn't be talking about Conley, who, BTW, was playing his first playoffs series ever.
I agree TP was a mismatch to exploit. It just didn't happen. Not hating on TP for saying something that's fairly obvious.
Not elite at all..
Whatever happens to Tony after today is beside the point. He's been a good PG for years. He's helped lead a team to two championships (the third he had a much smaller role) as the starting PG. He destroys the other team's defense and can take 1 on 3 fast breaks with a high percentage of success.
On a squad like GS, his scoring average would be much higher. He spent much of his career dumping the ball inside to Tim.
Say what you want about other players fading away. It's all conjecture. Tony Parker has been one of the best PGs in the league for many years, regardless how he goes from here.
He's never been an elite player, never will be, but some here act like he's pulled the wool over the eyes of NBA fans for years. He's just learned how to operate within a system.
Last edited by DMC; 09-25-2011 at 01:05 AM.
What's your point? We're discussing who had a clear matchup advantage and failed to deliver. You can't take 3 games off in the playoffs against a playoff rookie, and that's what's being pointed out. Who cares who would you take as a PG?
We didn't have a team to win the race, period. That's not what we're talking about here. Nobody is advocating trading TP for Conley, merely that a player with Tony's experience should've taken that rook for a spin. Didn't happen, that's all.
Chris Paul vs. Denver 2009 playoffs, Rondo vs. Miami 2011, Nash vs Spurs 2008... these guys never disappear
Parker's comfortably better than Rondo for now (Parker can shoot a basketball), and is probably on a par with Nash (and will be better as Nash continues to decline).
He's not up there with CP3, D-Will or now D-Rose.
This.
Tony was during the last few years RS Spurs MVP.
But in Playoffs he wasn't that regular because of the defensive intensity.
The Spurs tend to believe in TP so much because of the RS and then in Playoffs the role players struggle.
But the talent is there no doubt about it.
Watching him during the Euro this summer, I'm not worried at all in TP translation to be the Spurs leader.
No matter what, TP was the best PG in this european tournament and easilly the equivalent of a star player like Dirk...
Yes he isn't that young but he's still improving, so he did at this European Tournament.
And no one can denie that when his jumpshot his falling he's unstoppable and can be as dangerous as the NBA best players like D Rose, D Williams...
Maybe he needs more of this killer instinct and confidence to keep the high level wich need to him to be ELITE.
Certainly with the jumpshot rolling he is considerably more dangerous but I still have doubts about his ability to hold the team up. Tim and Manu have a style that is both individually dominating and it improves the play of other around them. Tony is not selfish but he just gets his at the end of the day. He isn't that great of a facilitator, just a phenomenal penetrator (its ok Brent Barry, don't be ashamed). And you are right he is great in the regular season but he really in my eyes hasn't had any superstar worthy performances in the playoffs. He is a damn good player who is valuable but he is not the piece to build on in the future. I am in favor of shipping him out to gain either a pass first star point guard, move Jefferson's contract, or get a solid big man to pair with Duncan. He certainly deserves respect but he is a regular season player. And a lot of his accolades should be chalked up to playing beside Duncan. Thats my two cents
2011 wasnt the first time Parker disappeared, likely wont be the last either. Also those guys arent score first PGs like Parker, theyre still able to get their teammates involved when their shots arent falling.Chris Paul vs. Denver 2009 playoffs, Rondo vs. Miami 2011, Nash vs Spurs 2008... these guys never disappear
So because Parker's shot is slightly less atrocious than Rondo's he can shoot a basketball?
Parker's shot has always been garbage and as has been pointed out that has been a big reason for many Spurs playoff outings. Teams gameplan and pack the lane on him and he becomes an average player because he doesnt bring much else to the table.
I was always in favor of this, with Hill and Manu sharing PG duties for the remainder of these last few years TD has left. Too late now with Hill gone though. We'll just have to settle for Parker running wild during the regular season and disappearing in the playoffs.
TP is seldom clutch but he's a decent pg. Certainly not someone to carry us ala Steve Nash. Dude still can't shoot consistently from the outside.
No, you're not even responding to what I was commenting on.
"It might have made more sense for him to play more like Conley where instead of looking to score he was looking to get others involved."
That's what I commented on. I have no ing idea what you are going on about.
I didn't mention acquiring any other PG.
I didn't mention a trade. Why would you want TP to play like someone who didn't make it out of the 2nd round instead of playing like the TP who won the Finals MVP?We didn't have a team to win the race, period. That's not what we're talking about here. Nobody is advocating trading TP for Conley, merely that a player with Tony's experience should've taken that rook for a spin. Didn't happen, that's all.
Exactly. No one is disputing how good a player Parker is. He's not that tall but usually is close to league leaders at scoring in the paint. When he has it going and has the right matchup he can win Finals mvps, beat the Suns in 2008, generally helps the team win, and it's a beauty to watch. The problem is it reduces the team's game to drive and kick which can be easily defended by other team packing paint and contesting shooters. Since his ability to facilitate is dependent on getting on getting into the paint he then becomes a liability at pg. The problem is the effect he has on the role players.
There were two alternatives to ballhog Tony that worked and helped role players more. In 2010 Manu and G.Hill sharing pg worked because both can facilitate and play off the ball. Also at the start of the season Tony looking to push the pace worked because he can finish and create transition opportunities for others. But as the season went on he reverted to ballhog Tony.
On the same comment:
"Spurs mainly had the clear advantage at pg and sf. They failed to use those advantages."
Didn't know you were talking only about the latter part. My mistake.
How you or I want TP to play doesn't matter. It really is what the other team allows him to do. I don't know he could've penetrated more often or better against Memphis, because they packed the paint well, but without a fairly solid jumper to keep them honest, he ended up fizzling for the first 3 games. You don't play Boobby Gibson and the Cavs every series.
And no, it wasn't just TP that costs us the series, it was a combination of factors. But that was one contributing factor.
I've always thought he was a great player since he arrived in the early 2000s, but never an elite PG simply because he doesn't have the passing and vision of the elite like Kidd, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Steve Nash, etc.
I don't get this. I think this past season TP played very well. He was no doubt our most consistent player in the regular season, he simply didn't play as well against Memphis. I don't think anything is becoming more obvious, he simply isn't a great distributor and that has always been the case. Doesn't mean he sucks in that regard, just not nearly enough for me to call him elite when it's one of the primary roles for a point guard.
I remember him SAT in 03 at key times, in 05 against Detroit he was horrible, Barry took alot of mins, so yeah you are right he has been bad at times in key moments! Most forget that? I hope not, he has been pussy at times and we all know that. 07 changed that though, sort of lol, but he had nash guarding him and BOOBIE! So no D teams yeah he goes off, but tight d who beats him up, he turns PUSS always has.
never get old
One thing is for sure SAS forum is going to be boring when TP will retire especially during the off season...
Something some folks don't factor in is that for Conley Jr. to run the grizzlies offense all he needed to do 9/10 times was throw the ball into Randolph or Gasol and then make his decisions based on how the defense reacts to that.
Parker couldn't come down and just give the ball to Duncan and Mcdyess all series. He is the spurs leading scorer and had to TRY and get his unlike Conley Jr. who doesnt have to put up significant numbers on offense. Conley Jr. can take himself out of the equation on offense, Parker can't.
On the otherhand, Parker can only create offense from inside the lane. Thats where he gets his points, which is fine. However his passing game as well is only effective when he gets in the lane. That and his jumpshot are the real issue here. Paul, Williams and Nash can set up teammates on the break, pass to cutters and take advantage of mismatches that bigger players have.
People praise Parker for scoring in 1 on 3 situations, or when derrick rose takes a 15ft floater, truth is when your patient and have a jumpshot the game is alot easier. You rarely see Cp3 trying to take it all the way against 2 and 3 guys. Why? when you can jog it down, run WITH your teammates and create an offensive advantage either for yourself, or a teammates.
Ginobili over the years has become a master at this; gone are the days that he can take it 1 on 3, but now he has become a better passer and facilitator as his athleticism has declined.
Manure tries to get by on tomfoolery & guile.
Uh, uh.
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