TP - Elite PG or Finally Exposed?

[Blanchard 48MoH]

Tony Parker is an elite point guard, just not quite up to par with Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Derrick Rose is like an upgraded version of Parker for that matter as well. He's easily the best non-American point guard in the world.

Is he a traditional point guard? No. A well-rounded one? No. Players like Kyle Lowrie might have stronger all-around games. But what separates Parker from guys like him is he has two elite skills. Parker is second to none at dribble penetration and finishing at the rim. He's solid if not great in most other aspects of his game. That means while he might not be consistently great like Paul or Williams, on any given night he can more than offset their production.

For more thoughts: http://www.48minutesof .com/whats-in-a-rating

[DPG21920]

Exactly. That's what kills me with the Westbrook stuff. There is a reason that Westbrook shoots a terrible % despite being athletically superior to TP and why TP is constantly one of the most efficient scoring guards in the league. It's a skill and TP is elite at it.

[portnoy1]

First of all, an ELITE player should be nearly unstoppable regardless of who he plays with. Parker, Rose and Westbrook are all stoppable. Paul, Nash and Williams are a little more difficult to guard. Take away all the jumpshooters and Parker can't penetrate, then that high fg% everyone uses to justify his weakness in playmaking becomes 'null n void'. Ask him to shoot 50% from the field taking 16ft jumpers, most nights he wont. Paul and Nash especially will burn you if you try that tactic, which is why they get into the lane whenever they feel like it regardless.

And this thing about spacing the floor for DUNCAN really irritates me, especially when a 10/10/2 player like Nazr Mohammed worked wonders for the Spurs and the dude could barely score outside of 5ft. Take away Parker and I am almost sure RJ gets touches in the post, off cuts and in transition. Also Bonner will be of no use anymore either. Then Tim Duncan can get the help he needs.

[lefty]

0 argument in your last 2 posts

Thanks

[FkLA]

Brazil is a Spurs fan from France.

Tony Parker is an elite point guard, just not quite up to par with Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Derrick Rose is like an upgraded version of Parker for that matter as well. He's easily the best non-American point guard in the world.

Is he a traditional point guard? No. A well-rounded one? No. Players like Kyle Lowrie might have stronger all-around games. But what separates Parker from guys like him is he has two elite skills. Parker is second to none at dribble penetration and finishing at the rim. He's solid if not great in most other aspects of his game. That means while he might not be consistently great like Paul or Williams, on any given night he can more than offset their production.

For more thoughts: http://www.48minutesof .com/whats-in-a-rating

I agree that hes elite at penetrating and finishing at the rim, possibly the best at his position when it comes to that.

What happens when teams gameplan around him, and pack the lane in the playoffs to combat his elite skills though? Go back as far as 04' where the Spurs had a 2-0 lead on LA and Parker was wrecking havoc, LA packed the lane on him and started committing hard fouls and Parker was completely neutralized. Result was an LA backdoor sweep. Look as recent as this past year, Grizz are able to contain his penetration/Parker isnt finishing at the rim...Parker is neutralized and Spurs lose to an 8th seed.

He doesnt have the courtvision or shot to still perform at an elite level when teams contain his penetration, which he depends on to get his points and his assists. Hes not really clutch either, people point to that Finals MVP to prove he is but the isnt. You need a solid outside shot and multiple ways of attacking a defense to be clutch and Parker doesnt have that. He crumbles too many times in big moments for him to be considered elite.

[Brazil]

0 argument in your last 2 posts

Thanks

Yeahhh I'm going to waste my time to argue with Lefty and Fkla about TP

[lefty]

Yeahhh I'm going to waste my time to argue with Lefty and Fkla about TP

And that post is not helping you

[Lady M]

To the French/Parker apologists:

Noone is saying Parker is a complete scrub just that hes always been overrated. Hes a great scorer especially in the regular season but too often hes been contained in the playoffs, and the Spurs have been outed as a result. We arent just talking about 2011 either, Parker has been costing the Spurs series since he first came into the league because hes never been able to develop a solid outside shot.

if you think he's overrated in this forum you think it's a scrub

[Brazil]

And that post is not helping you

your quotes are quite useful too with some pretty good arguments

2007: Boobie Gibson
lol finals mvp

2007........

The Curse of Boobie Gibson .......

Pretty much
The only times TP has shined in the playoffs have been agaisnt piss poor defensive PG's - Nash and Gibson - or teams

That's a fact

Well, he does have a point

He has been useless in series against teams who could stop his penetrations

[lefty]

[DMC]

On the same comment:
"Spurs mainly had the clear advantage at pg and sf. They failed to use those advantages."

Didn't know you were talking only about the latter part. My mistake.



How you or I want TP to play doesn't matter. It really is what the other team allows him to do. I don't know he could've penetrated more often or better against Memphis, because they packed the paint well, but without a fairly solid jumper to keep them honest, he ended up fizzling for the first 3 games. You don't play Boobby Gibson and the Cavs every series.

And no, it wasn't just TP that costs us the series, it was a combination of factors. But that was one contributing factor.

Really, you're preaching to the choir. I was only commenting about people who seem to think a player the caliber of Parker needs to be like a Mike Conley, because Memphis beat us.

If anything (and I don't even think this actually), Tony should just play as well as he has or can, not play like this or that person.

People have short memories.

[therealtruth]

First of all, an ELITE player should be nearly unstoppable regardless of who he plays with. Parker, Rose and Westbrook are all stoppable. Paul, Nash and Williams are a little more difficult to guard. Take away all the jumpshooters and Parker can't penetrate, then that high fg% everyone uses to justify his weakness in playmaking becomes 'null n void'. Ask him to shoot 50% from the field taking 16ft jumpers, most nights he wont. Paul and Nash especially will burn you if you try that tactic, which is why they get into the lane whenever they feel like it regardless.

And this thing about spacing the floor for DUNCAN really irritates me, especially when a 10/10/2 player like Nazr Mohammed worked wonders for the Spurs and the dude could barely score outside of 5ft. Take away Parker and I am almost sure RJ gets touches in the post, off cuts and in transition. Also Bonner will be of no use anymore either. Then Tim Duncan can get the help he needs.

I have to agree 100%. Parker's playoff failures have come from teams making the adjustments to pack the lane and the failure of the outside shooters to be able to make them pay. This happened as far back as 2004. He should have made the adjustment by now. The Spurs have relied to heavily on the spacing the floor thing for too long and it's been wildly inconsistent. They can't keep hoping the role players are going to hit their shots. They need a plan B if it's not working. The Spurs haven't got a true backup point since Jacque Vaughn. They certainly could have used Nazr but Splitter's probably even better. The just need to use him and limit Bonner's minutes.

[DMC]

I have to agree 100%. Parker's playoff failures have come from teams making the adjustments to pack the lane and the failure of the outside shooters to be able to make them pay. This happened as far back as 2004. He should have made the adjustment by now. The Spurs have relied to heavily on the spacing the floor thing for too long and it's been wildly inconsistent. They can't keep hoping the role players are going to hit their shots. They need a plan B if it's not working. The Spurs haven't got a true backup point since Jacque Vaughn. They certainly could have used Nazr but Splitter's probably even better. The just need to use him and limit Bonner's minutes.

The Spurs almost finished with the best record in the league.

How can their offense be "wildly inconsistent"?

[Calispursfan11]

According to the link on the 2k12 ratings thread, TP is worse than Paul, Westbrook, Nash, Rondo, Williams, Rose, Monta Ellis (who kind of plays PG at times), and JOHN WALL (who I completely forgot about). Chauncey or Baron Davis anyone?

[joshdaboss]

Chauncey or Baron Davis anyone?

Both have been for awhile, Davis for what seems like half a decade.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

According to the link on the 2k12 ratings thread, TP is worse than Paul, Westbrook, Nash, Rondo, Williams, Rose, Monta Ellis (who kind of plays PG at times), and JOHN WALL (who I completely forgot about). Chauncey or Baron Davis anyone?

and I for one am shocked that on a video game a Spurs player would receive a lesser rating than players in much larger media markets.

[lefty]

According to the link on the 2k12 ratings thread, TP is worse than Paul, Westbrook, Nash, Rondo, Williams, Rose, Monta Ellis (who kind of plays PG at times), and JOHN WALL

Makes sense

Parker is a piece of

[Pauleta14]

According to 48moh Hill and Parker have the same rating (80)...

[Calispursfan11]

According to 48moh Hill and Parker have the same rating (80)...

LOL, I think it's close to being true though. I think Hill's court vision and PG skills are actually quite a bit worse than Tony's if that's possible, but he excels in the athleticand long range bombing categories.

[Calispursfan11]

and I for one am shocked that on a video game a Spurs player would receive a lesser rating than players in much larger media markets.

I sense sarcasm.

[will_spurs]

Parker is a piece of

And you're a broken record. To each his own.

[lefty]

And you're a broken record. To each his own.

[Nathan89]

...but I thought he had a great jumper now.

[lefty]

...but I thought he had a great jumper now.

He did bite on Conley's pumpfakes

[Brazil]

Makes sense

Parker is a piece of

He did bite on Conley's pumpfakes