One of the better top 100 lists I've seen (Dirk gets his due!).

[nowhereman523]

No, I'm properly assessing Nowitzki's effect on the team. He essentially played the role of Olajuwon and Duncan on offense, but didn't have all of the other responsibilities they had. Statistically speaking, it wasn't even his best playoff performance and it definitely wasn't on the short list of the greatest of all time, such as Olajuwon's and Duncan's.

The bottom line is, there's nothing statistically that indicates either of Olajuwon's runs were better than Duncan's. And they're easy to compare, because they're such similar players.

The others played their role at an all-time elite level, their role just entailed more than one thing and entailed far more arduous things. They didn't get to have someone else do the dirty work for them.

Overpaid or not, they've had elite depth for years, so don't pull the "poor Dirk" act.

I didn't say you can't be very good if you're only elite at one thing. But when you're talking top 20 all-time guys, being elite at one thing and sub par at almost everything else isn't good enough to be mentioned in the same breathe as them.

Look at the roster Wade had. Nowitzki has never played on a roster anywhere near that poor. Nowitzki wasn't better than any of them by 04-05. It's not about "buying hype", that was the consensus, as anyone who followed the league then would know. The awards are so credible that Duncan has zero defensive player of the year awards. 37/15 against two 6-7 wings.

From '06-on, Nowitzki has been overrated. Don't confuse overrated with not good, though. He was/is more than good, he was/is very good, he's just not as good as he's made out to be. We're not talking about where he ranks now, we're talking mid aughts.

I don't see how he "has it all", when he's above average at one thing. And the only "verdict" that's in, is you being a typical biased, overly defensive Mavs fan. Only a biased Mavs fan would think he's better than any of them.

You've clearly predecided this issue and will stick to your guns against a mountain of evidence. Guys like KG get props because they played on ty teams and didn't get anywhere, while Dirk plays on better teams and wins 50 games every year, gets to 2 finals, wins every accolade along the way, but then gets penalized because he doesn't... what, get enough offensive rebounds? Anchor a defense? If some of those guys were really so good at doing all those things, maybe they would have had some more success.

Dirk was better at the one thing he did best than any of those guys were at the one thing they did best. Give me excellence over balance.

It takes a really special type of person to look at a site run by a bulls fan, a site that takes a large number of objective lists, combines them in an effort to neutralize biases, and calculates that dirk is a greater player than any of the people you listed, and gives him the props, and responds with "only a biased mavs fan would think he's better than any of them."


Bravo.

[Sportstudi]

Overpaid or not, they've had elite depth for years, so don't pull the "poor Dirk" act.

TD21 is completely butthurt.

[TD 21]

You've clearly predecided this issue and will stick to your guns against a mountain of evidence. Guys like KG get props because they played on ty teams and didn't get anywhere, while Dirk plays on better teams and wins 50 games every year, gets to 2 finals, wins every accolade along the way, but then gets penalized because he doesn't... what, get enough offensive rebounds? Anchor a defense? If some of those guys were really so good at doing all those things, maybe they would have had some more success.

Dirk was better at the one thing he did best than any of those guys were at the one thing they did best. Give me excellence over balance.

It takes a really special type of person to look at a site run by a bulls fan, a site that takes a large number of objective lists, combines them in an effort to neutralize biases, and calculates that dirk is a greater player than any of the people you listed, and gives him the props, and responds with "only a biased mavs fan would think he's better than any of them."


Bravo.

The word is predetermined and no, I didn't. I decided after watching all of the aforementioned players play over the years, unlike you Mavs fans. "Evidence"? The evidence points to him being the worst of the five players in question, which jives perfectly with the eye test.

They'd have had more success if they played with more talent. Three of them also had the misfortune of going against the consensus great player of all-time, in his prime. One player can only prop a team up so much, it's still a team sport. What more did you want Garnett to do? He did everything for them, unlike Nowitzki, who's always done one thing for the Mavs.

Balance is excellence because balance wins championships. How was he "better at the one thing he did best than the one thing they did best"? There's nothing to back that up.

stretch, what are you talking about? Spurs fans are almost as in love with Nowitzki as Mavs fans. And "real talk black dudes"? On a board filled with ignorant comments, that one might top them all. So let me get this straight: If you don't incessantly slobber over Nowitzki and act as if he's greater than players most wouldn't consider him greater than, then you're a racist? Then by that same logic, you're a racist for placing him above those players.

[Monostradamus]

And "real talk black dudes"? On a board filled with ignorant comments, that one might top them all. So let me get this straight: If you don't incessantly slobber over Nowitzki and act as if he's greater than players most wouldn't consider him greater than, then you're a racist? Then by that same logic, you're a racist for placing him above those players.

He's talking about the way Dirk is viewed generally by black people, especially those in the city of Dallas.

[nowhereman523]

The word is predetermined and no, I didn't. I decided after watching all of the aforementioned players play over the years, unlike you Mavs fans. "Evidence"? The evidence points to him being the worst of the five players in question, which jives perfectly with the eye test.

They'd have had more success if they played with more talent. Three of them also had the misfortune of going against the consensus great player of all-time, in his prime. One player can only prop a team up so much, it's still a team sport. What more did you want Garnett to do? He did everything for them, unlike Nowitzki, who's always done one thing for the Mavs.

Balance is excellence because balance wins championships. How was he "better at the one thing he did best than the one thing they did best"? There's nothing to back that up.

stretch, what are you talking about? Spurs fans are almost as in love with Nowitzki as Mavs fans. And "real talk black dudes"? On a board filled with ignorant comments, that one might top them all. So let me get this straight: If you don't incessantly slobber over Nowitzki and act as if he's greater than players most wouldn't consider him greater than, then you're a racist? Then by that same logic, you're a racist for placing him above those players.

It takes a really special type of person to look at a site run by a bulls fan, a site that takes a large number of objective lists, combines them in an effort to neutralize biases, and calculates that dirk is a greater player than any of the people you listed, and gives him the props, and responds with "only a biased mavs fan would think he's better than any of them."

[nowhereman523]

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/predecided

dip

[nowhereman523]

You're at least 0-2 on things that have an objectively right and wrong answer (1 - only mavs fans would rank him higher, 2 - 'the word is predetermined'). So don't mind me if I go ahead and not give you the benefit of the doubt on subjective matters.

[stretch]

stretch, what are you talking about? Spurs fans are almost as in love with Nowitzki as Mavs fans. And "real talk black dudes"? On a board filled with ignorant comments, that one might top them all. So let me get this straight: If you don't incessantly slobber over Nowitzki and act as if he's greater than players most wouldn't consider him greater than, then you're a racist? Then by that same logic, you're a racist for placing him above those players.

i can pull up about 10000 comments on this site alone of spurs fans wishing stupid like injury and death on dirk. its not hard to find any.

and its not a matter of me being racist, as opposed to ignorant black people who never want to give a good white player credit, which is not an uncommon thing whatsoever. maybe if you pulled your head out of your ass, you would see how massively underrated Dirk generally has been in his career by ignorant black dudes who only look at dunking and athleticism as meaning anything in basketball.

[joshdaboss]

thinking d-rob could hold dirk

duncan, kg, and a whole least of great defenders in the NBA hasnt been able to hold dirk for . what makes you think d-rob suddenly can?

oh wait, beacuse bruce bowen blocked dirk on that shot that one time

I think Robinson can because he's the tallest/longest big time athlete the NBA has ever seen. One could argue Wilt I suppose, but he never had that sort of physique Robinson had. Also, prime Duncan can most certainly guard Dirk, same for KG. The difference is they're both old now and Dirk's jumper isn't going to leave him.

[joshdaboss]

only spurfans, and "real talk" black dudes think dirk is overrated

pretty much everyone else appreciates what he does, accomplished, and his greatness

I like Dirk, but he got overrated by first beating the Lakers and then Stern handing him a ring(to bring more white fans in).

[Jodelo]

I think Robinson can because he's the tallest/longest big time athlete the NBA has ever seen. One could argue Wilt I suppose, but he never had that sort of physique Robinson had. Also, prime Duncan can most certainly guard Dirk, same for KG. The difference is they're both old now and Dirk's jumper isn't going to leave him.

Dirk ted on KG everytime KG tried to guard him, please...

Duncan was early on in his career on Dirk but i can´t tell tell if he can guard him, Dirk wasn´t in his prime back then!

[Giuseppe]

i can pull up about 10000 comments on this site alone of spurs fans wishing stupid like injury and death on dirk. its not hard to find any.

Yep, yep.

[stretch]

Also, prime Duncan can most certainly guard Dirk, same for KG. The difference is they're both old now and Dirk's jumper isn't going to leave him.

obviously once again you have no clue in what the you are talking about, considering a young, developing Dirk torched the out of both Duncan and KG in the playoffs. Then when he began to hit his prime, Duncan had such a hard time, they had to put Bruce Bowen on Dirk, only for his ass to get torched as well.

ing idiot

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The only Spurs player who ever really defended Dirk well was Malik Rose tbh

[FkLA]

i can pull up about 10000 comments on this site alone of spurs fans wishing stupid like injury and death on dirk. its not hard to find any.

and its not a matter of me being racist, as opposed to ignorant black people who never want to give a good white player credit, which is not an uncommon thing whatsoever. maybe if you pulled your head out of your ass, you would see how massively underrated Dirk generally has been in his career by ignorant black dudes who only look at dunking and athleticism as meaning anything in basketball.

persecution complex

go upstairs, there are a few s that dont give him his due but for the most part most reasonable spurfans love the guy even though he plays for the state rivals.

and not slobbering over him like u =/= underappreciated got...im sure youd consider me one of those mean gnsf out to get dirk yet ive said dirk is a borderline top 25 player of all-time, the 4th best pf of all-time, and that his fadeaway is arguably a top 5 most unstoppable move of all-time. for a one-dimensional player with supreme offense and little else, that was considered a second tier franchise player because of his teams playoff shortcomings, that has shriveled up in key moments thats not underappreciating at all imo.

[nowhereman523]

18 – Dirk Nowitzki (PF, 7'0", 245 lb)
Awards: 1 x NBA champion, 1 x Regular Season MVP, 1 x Finals MVP, 4 x All-NBA 1st Team, 10 x All-Star
Numbers: 23.0ppg, 8.4rpg, 2.7apg, .877 FT% (1998-)
Words: “We'll remember him as one of the 20 best basketball players of all time, the best European player ever, one of the best shooters ever, someone who came through when it mattered” (Bill Simmons).

Will be higher than Pet , Havlicek, and Erving by the end of next season.. whenever there is a next season. Right next to Moses.

[stretch]

for a one-dimensional player with supreme offense and little else, that was considered a second tier franchise player because of his teams playoff shortcomings, that has shriveled up in key moments thats not underappreciating at all imo.

@ this bull

[Monostradamus]

a second tier franchise player because of his teams playoff shortcomings, that has shriveled up in key moments

wait are we talking about Dirk or D-Rob here?

[FkLA]

@ this bull

Your telling me Dirk was considered a first-tier franchise player, in the same pantheon as guys like Shaq, Duncan, Kobe or even guys like AI & Kidd?

Last 7 minutes of 2006 Finals Game 3, Mavs up 13 with the knife on the heat's jugular:

Terry- 2/5
Harris-2/2
Stackhouse-0/1
Dirk-0/1 (took this shot with 6 min remaining ), offensive foul, interception by haslem
missed game-tying FT at end of game despite shooting 90%+ in both the reg season and playoffs
inbounder on the last play only being down by 2 and with a sec left

Same in Game 6 were Terry was taking all the big shots in the 4th qtr. GS series is self explanatory. Also people forget but this s balls shriveled up in that meltdown vs Portland in the 1st round this yr, he took like 1-2 shots the final 5 minutes despite beasting prior to that. Did the same in Game 6 when Portland nearly came back again but Terry bailed his ass out. The videos are there for s to see and confirm this.

[stretch]

Dirk rang, and was the #1 reason for his team to be able to do so, and none of that garbage changes that. if we really want, we can go up and pull stats for basically every great player in years where they did not win championships, and find sub-par playoff runs.

Dirk has had subpar playoff runs, but has had more great playoff runs than poor ones. about the only truly POOR playoff run he had was the GS series. the next poorest was the 2005 run against Houston and Phoenix, where he didnt shoot the ball consistently, but was a monster on the boards, defense, and setting his teammates up. after that, basically every playoff run Dirk has had has been absolute money.

[Killakobe81]

Interesting debate. Of course robinson was the better all-around player. But I cant argue with taking dirk over him either. If it was dirk vs. Tim (both prime) I take Tim. But dirk can score against half-court defense so much more effectively than David I can at least see where Stretch is coming from.

Let me ask you this ... Pippen (though he did not ring as a #1) has MANY of the same advantages that David has over Dirk ...So would anyone here that saw them both play in their primes take Pippen over Bird?

Just asking because a lot of the same stuff applies. Myself im not sure which way I would go but my heart says Larry, even though he is a got-ass Celtic ...

[nowhereman523]

@ this bull

[nowhereman523]

Your telling me Dirk was considered a first-tier franchise player, in the same pantheon as guys like Shaq, Duncan, Kobe or even guys like AI & Kidd?

Last 7 minutes of 2006 Finals Game 3, Mavs up 13 with the knife on the heat's jugular:

Terry- 2/5
Harris-2/2
Stackhouse-0/1
Dirk-0/1 (took this shot with 6 min remaining ), offensive foul, interception by haslem
missed game-tying FT at end of game despite shooting 90%+ in both the reg season and playoffs
inbounder on the last play only being down by 2 and with a sec left

Same in Game 6 were Terry was taking all the big shots in the 4th qtr. GS series is self explanatory. Also people forget but this s balls shriveled up in that meltdown vs Portland in the 1st round this yr, he took like 1-2 shots the final 5 minutes despite beasting prior to that. Did the same in Game 6 when Portland nearly came back again but Terry bailed his ass out. The videos are there for s to see and confirm this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg1qGTLTzec

Not pictured - Duncan's balls shriveling as he misses a shot from 6 feet away to win the game at the end.

Pictured - No one being able to slow down Dirk - especially not Timmy in his prime.

[Sean Cagney]

The usual nonsense about how Duncan is only what he is "because he played with a lot of talent (even though he didn't)" and "because he's big (as if he's physically overwhelming, like a Chamberlain/Robinson/O'Neal/Howard). McGrady is unquestionably on the short list of most talented players of all time, but so is Duncan. Duncan didn't overwhelm players physically the vast majority of the time, he flat out out skilled them. In his prime, he could do everything, from leading a break, to being the ball handler in pick-and-rolls, to shooting on the move, to guarding face up fours, etc.

.

YES SIR!!!!!!!

[Killakobe81]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg1qGTLTzec

Not pictured - Duncan's balls shriveling as he misses a shot from 6 feet away to win the game at the end.

Pictured - No one being able to slow down Dirk - especially not Timmy in his prime.

Duncan is not as infallible and clutch in the playoffs as spur fans would have you believe, but no one is. even MJ had moments where he failed. But Duncan came up big more times than not ...