One of the better top 100 lists I've seen (Dirk gets his due!).

[nowhereman523]

Duncan is not as infallible and clutch in the playoffs as spur fans would have you believe, but no one is. even MJ had moments where he failed. But Duncan came up big more times than not ...

Yup which is why he is consensus #1 PF. Just pointing out this silliness of using isolated instances to say guys like Kobe and Dirk aren't clutch.

[FkLA]

Dirk rang, and was the #1 reason for his team to be able to do so, and none of that garbage changes that. if we really want, we can go up and pull stats for basically every great player in years where they did not win championships, and find sub-par playoff runs.

Yeaa he rang this year thats why I said for practically all of his career he was a second-tier franchise player, Im excluding this past season. Aside from homer mavfans noone ever had him in the same tier as guys like Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Kidd, AI, Tmac, or KG. Thats a fact.

but was a monster on the boards, defense

At this point I hope your just trolling . Calling Dirk a monster on defense at any point in his career, or even for a series is ridiculous and u know it.

Let me ask you this ... Pippen (though he did not ring as a #1) has MANY of the same advantages that David has over Dirk ...So would anyone here that saw them both play in their primes take Pippen over Bird?

Just asking because a lot of the same stuff applies. Myself im not sure which way I would go but my heart says Larry, even though he is a got-ass Celtic ...

People like to point to Bird or Magic being average on defense to try to defend how one dimensional Dirk is. Heres the thing though...despite their average D both of them were some of the most complete players of all-time. Magic was a triple double machine with arguably the best courtvision the league has seen. Bird has the 5th most triple doubles of all-time. Not to mention they both won a whole lot more than Dirk has.

Guys like Gervin or Wilkins are the kind of players Dirk's one-dimensionalness should be compared to. They were truly strictly scorers and little else, just like Dirk. Dirk does have a le on them though so you definitely rank him above guys like them. While Dirk is a borderline Top 25 player, those guys probably rank in the 30s or 40s range.

[stretch]

Yeaa he rang this year thats why I said for practically all of his career he was a second-tier franchise player, Im excluding this past season. Aside from homer mavfans noone ever had him in the same tier as guys like Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Kidd, AI, Tmac, or KG. Thats a fact.

i no longer wish to continue this debate with you and your complete dumbassery

[FkLA]

How old are you, did you even watch AI and Tmac during their prime? Youre a ing re if you wouldve taken Dirk over either of those two players in the early & mid 2000s.

[cantthinkofanything]

People like to point to Bird or Magic being average on defense to try to defend how one dimensional Dirk is. Heres the thing though...despite their average D both of them were some of the most complete players of all-time. Magic was a triple double machine with arguably the best courtvision the league has seen. Bird has the 5th most triple doubles of all-time. Not to mention they both won a whole lot more than Dirk has.

LOL. You're right. Magic and Bird won a whole lot more than Dirk. And with arguably weaker supporting casts.

[FkLA]

LOL. You're right. Magic and Bird won a whole lot more than Dirk. And with arguably weaker supporting casts.

Ok exclude the winning part if you like, the point still stands.

Magic and Bird were still two of the most complete players of all-time. Dirk, not so much.

[stretch]

How old are you, did you even watch AI and Tmac during their prime? Youre a ing re if you wouldve taken Dirk over either of those two players in the early & mid 2000s.

ive always said T-Mac is the most talented player to ever play in the NBA

but that doesnt mean if you dont put in the work to fully utilize it, which he didnt

AI is just laughable, putting up 30 points a game taking 30 shots a game

[nowhereman523]

I as well no wish to continue this debate against this joker and his dumbassery.

The OP's list still underrates Dirk. By the time he retires, t15 no doubt.

[cantthinkofanything]

Ok exclude the winning part if you like, the point still stands.

Magic and Bird were still two of the most complete players of all-time. Dirk, not so much.

I'm going to exclude it all. You could put me on a team with Scott, Kareem, Worth, Cooper, et al. and I've have great numbers as well. Bird is similar. But he did have a great shot.

[FkLA]

ive always said T-Mac is the most talented player to ever play in the NBA

but that doesnt mean if you dont put in the work to fully utilize it, which he didnt

AI is just laughable, putting up 30 points a game taking 30 shots a game

So youre basically saying that most people wouldve taken Dirk over a young, healthy, prime Tmac in the early-mid 00s?

AI was easily a better player than Dirk during that period as well. Try to ignore the fact that Dirk just won a le and that AI is somewhere in Turkey then maybe you wouldnt have such stupid takes.

I'm going to exclude it all. You could put me on a team with Scott, Kareem, Worth, Cooper, et al. and I've have great numbers as well. Bird is similar. But he did have a great shot.

[Leetonidas]

T-Mac I can see an argument for but Allen Iverson? Really?? He was never anything more than a glorified chucker who gambled on defense for steals and had to be the center of a team that would never win because he was their best player. Who wouldn't take a 7 footer with as much offensive talent over a 5'11" chucker with a bad at ude? C'mon son

[FkLA]

T-Mac I can see an argument for but Allen Iverson? Really?? He was never anything more than a glorified chucker who gambled on defense for steals and had to be the center of a team that would never win because he was their best player. Who wouldn't take a 7 footer with as much offensive talent over a 5'11" chucker with a bad at ude? C'mon son

Tmac only shot slightly less and with a slightly higher FG% than AI during that half decade.

Did you actually watch AI play though? Do you know who his #2 even was? His #3? Both his and Tmac's teammates were pretty bad, defenses focusing in on them so much had alot to do with the low FG%. Check his FG% when he was traded to Denver, it immediately went up from low 40s to mid 40s just by playing alongside more competent teammates. Both these players had some selfishness in them, just like most great scorers do, but alot of the 'chucking' was justified as well.

[badfish22]

so much time spent in this thread by gnsf

[FkLA]

Just as much time spent by the regulatorz

[TD 21]

i can pull up about 10000 comments on this site alone of spurs fans wishing stupid like injury and death on dirk. its not hard to find any.

and its not a matter of me being racist, as opposed to ignorant black people who never want to give a good white player credit, which is not an uncommon thing whatsoever. maybe if you pulled your head out of your ass, you would see how massively underrated Dirk generally has been in his career by ignorant black dudes who only look at dunking and athleticism as meaning anything in basketball.

Maybe so, but if you look hard enough, you'll find double that of Spurs fans who are blatant Nowitzki fans.

That's exactly what it is and with each passing racist comment, you only make it more obvious. "Ignorant black people who never want to give a good white player credit", aka not incessantly slobbering over every good white player and pretending they're better than they actually are. It's not about "dunking and athleticism", it's about being an all around player and he never has been. I never had Iverson rated as high as the vast majority for the exact same reason. Nowitzki has been massively overrated since '06. I knew it would go to another level after the championship and sure enough, it has. He's benefiting from revisionist history to almost Bryant proportions at this point.

[Giuseppe]

He's benefiting from revisionist history to almost Bryant proportions at this point.

Kobe: 5

that revised white guy: 1

withstanding.

[dirk4mvp]

Kobe: 5

that revised white guy: 1

withstanding.

that revised white guy: 4

Kobe: 0


permanent.

[joshdaboss]

obviously once again you have no clue in what the you are talking about, considering a young, developing Dirk torched the out of both Duncan and KG in the playoffs. Then when he began to hit his prime, Duncan had such a hard time, they had to put Bruce Bowen on Dirk, only for his ass to get torched as well.

ing idiot

Please show me evidence of Dirk torching Duncan and KG. ROFL I'd love to see this mythical video footage.

[stretch]

Please show me evidence of Dirk torching Duncan and KG. ROFL I'd love to see this mythical video footage.

quit being lazy and get your own evidence, got

if you were a true spur fan, you would vividly recall many times Dirk completely lighting Duncan and the Spurs up. lol bandwagon fan

[Veterinarian.]

it's sad how an "elite" defender like Duncan had to pussy out and resort to his SF guarding Dirk. But hey, he did a good job at guarding Dampier so that's all that matters!

Dampiers offensive resume wore Duncan out though and he proceeded to get all over by Desagana mutha in Diop

If Duncan had balls, he would've taken Dirk 1v1 especially because he is an "elite" defender. Maybe Smokey Howard wouldn't have gone off either

[Killakobe81]

Yeaa he rang this year thats why I said for practically all of his career he was a second-tier franchise player, Im excluding this past season. Aside from homer mavfans noone ever had him in the same tier as guys like Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Kidd, AI, Tmac, or KG. Thats a fact.



At this point I hope your just trolling . Calling Dirk a monster on defense at any point in his career, or even for a series is ridiculous and u know it.



People like to point to Bird or Magic being average on defense to try to defend how one dimensional Dirk is. Heres the thing though...despite their average D both of them were some of the most complete players of all-time. Magic was a triple double machine with arguably the best courtvision the league has seen. Bird has the 5th most triple doubles of all-time. Not to mention they both won a whole lot more than Dirk has.

Guys like Gervin or Wilkins are the kind of players Dirk's one-dimensionalness should be compared to. They were truly strictly scorers and little else, just like Dirk. Dirk does have a le on them though so you definitely rank him above guys like them. While Dirk is a borderline Top 25 player, those guys probably rank in the 30s or 40s range.

Thing is Bird and Magic were both great team defenders, but ty 1on 1 defenders. Like I said I am not taking sides here, I think both Dirk and David are great. I think that despite Dirk not being as great an all-around player the debate is close enough that a ring give Dirk the edge. But IF YOU don't think they are close, than the ring should break the "tie" ... IMHO.

I guess my question is, where do folks here (non-biased spur fans) truly rank David? And where do they rank Dirk? Again, for me it's close and I would probably give David the edge, but Dirk is still going and is finishing his career strong. So even if you discount the ring, unless dirk suffers a debilitating injury most would say he will of had the better career. The Navy and his back shaved off some of his prime ...

BTW feel the same about Bird vs. Magic. Bird was the better player early, Magic had the better finish. Magic has more rings so I take him over Larry. but I admit i am biased, Magic is my all-time favorite player. Here I have no stake in this debate, but was never a fan of David but like I said earlier I guess I expected more than we got.

[cantthinkofanything]

If I have to choose DRob or Dirk to start a team, it's a no brainer that I take DRob. He immediatley gives you scoring, rebounding, and a dominating defensive presence in thet post.

[stretch]

If I have to choose DRob or Dirk to start a team, it's a no brainer that I take DRob. He immediatley gives you scoring, rebounding, and a dominating defensive presence in thet post.

he also gives you a choker for a leader, who is more interested in chasing s around with a bible than winning playoff basketball games

great in leader

[Giuseppe]

he also gives you a choker for a leader

It's just the truth. Bitter, but, the truth nonetheless.

[cantthinkofanything]

double teamed by dumb and dumber