Spurfan needs to let go of their sentimental/nostalgic attachment to David Robinson..

[stretch]

oh great, DPG in here now to give ambchang a blowjob

its probably extra easy for DPG because he can stand up straight, and still blow a gnome with ease

[DPG21920]

Dirk before he rang, not better than David.

Dirk, according to Mav fans was past his true prime.

Dirk was past his true prime before he rang and wasn't better than David until he rang per Mav fan.

Dirk being past his true prime where he wasn't considered better than David now has a ring and that somehow made him better than David.

[ambchang]

So in other words, the difference was that Timmy won, and Karl lost. Why? Because Karl wasn't anywhere CLOSE to being as good of a team leader as Tim Duncan. Many people argue that he actually might have had a better skillset and was a more naturally talented and gifted player. However, he had his chances and pissed them away. Timmy had his chances and made the best of them, multiple times.

Yeah, so how does that apply to Dirk vs. Robinson, when it is so obvious that one player have the necessary support, while the other didn’t?

And I like how you pick and choose when comparing teammates, but don't like to pick and choose when looking at other teammates and opponents faced, or the situations going on, such as the strike in 99, having Robinson at his side, and facing some weak-ass compe ion. Also in 2003, facing an unhealthy, imploding Lakers squad, as well as a Dirk-less Mavericks, and LMAO nets. Don't forget he had the help of Parker and Ginobili by 2003. They might not have been as good as they were come 2005 and 2007, but they were still KEY parts of that Spurs championship team.

The Spurs swept Portland and the Lakers. The Lakers won the next 3 championships, while Portland was 17 FTAs in the 4th quarter from winning one. How is that weak?

And Robinson opened up the lane for Duncan how? Robinson and Duncan were the ONLY twin towers that ever won the championship, reason being it is very difficult to find big men who don’t get into each others’ way.
The Lakers were imploding then? They imploded since 01, didn’t stop them from winning two more championships. THe Spurs went up 2-1 vs. the Mavs with Dirk, with both wins in relatively large margins. The Spurs eventually closed them out 4-2, showing Dirk had minimal effect on the results.
Parker sucked in 03, he had Speedy Claxton and Steve Kerr save his butt vs. the Nets and Mavs. Ginobili was a rookie, and was putting up barely 10ppg. Ginobili didn’t even start, and played 28mpg. Ginobili was as key in 03 as Barrea was key in 11.

If you are going to do this pick-and-choose garbage, then look at it from all aspects, or don't do it at all.

Or should I go revisionist history like you?

Anyways, I'm a 100% believer that Timmy >>>>>>>> Malone as well. But I just love how much you pick and choose , as well as your revisionist history that Timmy took a squad of simply Mario Elie, Stephen Jackson, Steve Kerr, and Jaren Jackson to a le, forgetting the assistance of Robinson, Avery, Elliott, Manu, and Parker in those years as well. Kinda like how just to fit your ridiculous 95 Spurs argument, a team that won 62 games suddenly completely sucked astronomical amounts of ass, and all 62 games were won entirely at the hands of David Robinson going 1-on-5 against everyone. Cut that out, and debate logically, instead of twisting and making up just to fit your argument.

Because was are, and has been talking about double teaming big-men. But wait, you weren’t talking about that at all suddenly, despite the fact that you raised the topic.

[stretch]

Dirk before he rang, not better than David.

Dirk, according to Mav fans was past his true prime.

Dirk was past his true prime before he rang and wasn't better than David until he rang per Mav fan.

Dirk being past his true prime where he wasn't considered better than David now has a ring and that somehow made him better than David.

without rings, is Timmy the greatest PF ever? without rings, is he even considered better than Chuck or Malone?

rings matter when it comes to talk of historical greatness, especially when you are the centerpiece of the championship squads




i think you idiots keep forgetting the fact that I am the first to admit that Davey was a superior all-around basketball player to Dirk. But Dirk will go down as the a greater historical figure, because he was the key centerpiece of a championship team, and did so in a legendary manner.

same for Shaq and David Robinson debates. David was unquestionably a more well-rounded and skilled player than Shaq in virtually every aspect of the game. But Shaq was capable of raising the play of his teammates, and putting a team on his back when they needed him most. Shaq is historically the greater player, and most people would probably prefer to build a team around Shaq before building around David.

Winning isn't everything, but when two players are very comparable, and one was clearly a better winner than the other, it most definitely is a legitimate deal-breaker.

[stretch]

Robinson and Duncan were the ONLY twin towers that ever won the championship, reason being it is very difficult to find big men who don’t get into each others’ way.

um, Pau and Bynum?

McHale and Parish?

yeah, they were the ONLY ones ever

[Killakobe81]

without rings, is Timmy the greatest PF ever? without rings, is he even considered better than Chuck or Malone?

rings matter when it comes to talk of historical greatness, especially when you are the centerpiece of the championship squads




i think you idiots keep forgetting the fact that I am the first to admit that Davey was a superior all-around basketball player to Dirk. But Dirk will go down as the a greater historical figure, because he was the key centerpiece of a championship team, and did so in a legendary manner.

same for Shaq and David Robinson debates. David was unquestionably a more well-rounded and skilled player than Shaq in virtually every aspect of the game. But Shaq was capable of raising the play of his teammates, and putting a team on his back when they needed him most. Shaq is historically the greater player, and most people would probably prefer to build a team around Shaq before building around David.

Winning isn't everything, but when two players are very comparable, and one was clearly a better winner than the other, it most definitely is a legitimate deal-breaker.

I agree. But Spur fan (some) likes to switch their debates to suit their case. Prior to Kobe/Dirk ringing winning was why duncan was better. Numbers disnt tell the whole story. Then when PER and especially win shares said duncan was amazing they latched there. But now that 5>4 (kobe/tim) or 1>0 (dirk/david) the rings don't matter. Im with you Stretch, if the two players are CLOSE just as Kobe/duncan and Dirk/David are, then the rings should end the debate. Just like it does for duncan/malone.

For the record I also take Duncan over Karl but if the rings were even or close I would consider going the other way and I despise Malone. But the man could play he is just not clutch.

[Killakobe81]

But you can make the case that if Dirk and Kobe put up a couple more elite seasons neither of the above debates will be close.

[ambchang]

more picking and choosing

i dont have any more time to waste on this. you are set in your ways, im set in mine, and obviously nothing either one of us says will change each others viewpoint, which is perfectly fine. ill just stick to the fact that mattered most.

Dirk as the true #1 - rang

Davey as the true #1 - never sniffed the finals

Dirk > Davey

Wait, where is the content and arguments? Oh noes, there are none! Because stretch couldn't get over the fact that he is now arguing against himself.

Stretch: Dirk > Davey because he commands double teams

Stretch: Nobody's talking about double teams.

[ambchang]

um, Pau and Bynum?

Um, Kobe?

McHale and Parish?

Um Bird?

yeah, they were the ONLY ones ever [/QUOTE]

Might as well put in Dirk and Chandler in there, because twin towers mean two 7-fters.

What about Garnett and Perkins?

[stretch]

Wait, where is the content and arguments? Oh noes, there are none! Because stretch couldn't get over the fact that he is now arguing against himself.

Stretch: Dirk > Davey because he commands double teams

Stretch: Nobody's talking about double teams.

right, when I was in the middle of comparing the quality of teammates, and clearly stated that was what I was doing, that means I was talking about double teams from something I posted several pages earlier.

picking and choosing

[stretch]

Um, Kobe?

Um Bird?

Might as well put in Dirk and Chandler in there, because twin towers mean two 7-fters.

What about Garnett and Perkins?

not merely two 7fters, but a twin tower combo that generally dominated their positions, and did so effectively without getting in each others ways. you were the one that basically said its impossible to have two heavily effective big men on the same team to win a championship that don't get in each others way, but both of those combos won multiple championships, and didnt seem to have too much trouble working with each other effectively.

[ambchang]

right, when I was in the middle of comparing the quality of teammates, and clearly stated that was what I was doing, that means I was talking about double teams from something I posted several pages earlier.

picking and choosing

How do you double off of a big man? You double off of

a) Perimeter players because a there is more time to recover on defense, and because a jump shot from further away is a lower percentage shot from closer. Dirk had some decent, not great, shooters that other teams are hesitant to double off of. Robinson had Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro, where every single defender is willing to double off of.
b) Inside sidekick with no offense. Dirk mans the high post, if someone doubles off of Chandler, he can dump the ball to the middle for an easy dunk/layup. Robinson mans the low post and high post, if people double off of Rodman, he refuses to shoot unless it is an ill-advised 3pter.

not merely two 7fters, but a twin tower combo that generally dominated their positions, and did so effectively without getting in each others ways. you were the one that basically said its impossible to have two heavily effective big men on the same team to win a championship that don't get in each others way, but both of those combos won multiple championships, and didnt seem to have too much trouble working with each other effectively.

Fine, your definition defers from mine. I name twin towers as two big man who are specifically and clearly #1 and #2 options on a team that.

[ambchang]

BTW, I thought you were done with this thread.

[ambchang]

BTW2, nobody has yet to explain how Dirk is past his prime 2.5 years ago, and not good enough to become the #1 option on championship team, to suddenly becoming good enough again.

[stretch]

lol more picking and choosing

BTW2, nobody has yet to explain how Dirk is past his prime 2.5 years ago, and not good enough to become the #1 option on championship team, to suddenly becoming good enough again.

I was incorrect 2.5 years ago to think he was done. You happy?

[DPG21920]

Stretch wrong about that Dirk

Also here comes Killa to bang Stretch again. Which should be easy because Stretch is a huge v*gina.

[Giuseppe]

...& everybody was wrong about that Barea.

Cept Cubby.

[Killakobe81]

Stretch wrong about that Dirk

Also here comes Killa to bang Stretch again. Which should be easy because Stretch is a huge v*gina.

Bang stretch? Me and this man have hardly agreed on ANYTHING before this ...except maybe we both root for the Cowboys.

[DPG21920]

You hate the Spurs

[DPG21920]

But you're good people like Stretch

[Bill_Brasky]

Cubby used up all his wrongness on the Suns

[Killakobe81]

You hate the Spurs

I do not hate the Spurs. In fact, I thought I would adopt them as a "second team" when I moved there. Catch teh Lakers and afew other games at the AT&T ...

But when I found out how much SPur fans "hated on the Lakers" and the purple and gold faithful, I started to build up a dislike of Spur fan. But with no Bowen there is no one to hate. I dont care for RJ or Frenchy but I have so much respect for Pop and duncan cant truly hate the spurs. I like a dumbass picked you guys to beat the Suns in the playoffs 2 years ago and the Grizz last season. I also posted upstairs I did NOT think you guys were done.

Some, hate ...

[Bill_Brasky]

Killa = most spur-friendly lakerfan, I've seen him show love for Duncan/Gino/Pop

[stretch]

Bang stretch? Me and this man have hardly agreed on ANYTHING before this ...except maybe we both root for the Cowboys.

i dont root for the Cowboys either

Raider Nation

[Killakobe81]

i dont root for the Cowboys either

Raider Nation

Well , we aint even got that ...

We just think yall overrating David that is all, let us proceed.