Cains Message: Not rich? No Job? Blame yourself

[Wild Cobra]

Actually, everyone SHOULD set their goal to be a millionaire. It takes that much just to retire in decent fashion.

No . I still have a ways to go on my retirement account before I'm comfortable to retire.

[Wild Cobra]

And hope you can work all those 40 years, and that your savings ain't going down the drain in some market collapse, and that you're healthy, and a plethora of other variables...

If you place it in a retirement plan, you are not required to liquidate any of it for debt owed. If you invest $200 a month for 40 years and earn 3% above inflation, my value in todays dollars at the end of 40 years is $183k. Sure, not a millionaire, but add that to SS benifits and you are better off than someone who doesn't plan for the future. I started investing later in life than I should have and will probably have just short of $1 million by todays dollars when I retire. However, if I were to invest 15% of my average wages since I was out of the military, I would probably have over $2 million by todays dollars.

[ElNono]

my value in todays dollars at the end of 40 years is $183k. Sure, not a millionaire

I think this resumes your post nicely. $183K is not even close to a millionaire.

And the point I was making with that post, which apparently flew right above your head, is that different people have different situations. Not always the seemingly right decisions, are the right decisions. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Then there's the difference of the guy that starts off with a $60K loan behind his back vs the rich kid that has no such weight. If you take both as being as equally hard worker, intelligent and the like, there's no doubt who is going to have the toughest road, and who might not be able to start saving at 25.

Market crashes, job market conditions. If monetary success would only entail making the "right decisions", then a whole lot more people would be millionaires.

[Yonivore]

Fact is, if everyone of us had started saving 5-10% of our income, with our first job, and never changed the habit, we could all be millionaires by age 65.

[ElNono]

Fact is, if everyone of us had started saving 5-10% of our income, with our first job, and never changed the habit, we could all be millionaires by age 65.

Not even close. $1 million / 40 years = $25000 savings a year = $2000 savings a month (rounded). $2000/mo in savings being 5% of your salary means your salary is $40K/mo. At 10%, your salary would be $20K/mo. That's a pretty ing good salary.

And that figure doesn't even include adjustment for inflation, taxes, SS, etc. and only factors $1 million.

Basically, yoni talking out of his ass again.

[Yonivore]

Not even close. $1 million / 40 years = $25000 savings a year = $2000 savings a month (rounded). $2000/mo in savings being 5% of your salary means your salary is $40K/mo. At 10%, your salary would be $20K/mo. That's a pretty ing good salary.

And that figure doesn't even include adjustment for inflation, taxes, SS, etc. and only factors $1 million.

Basically, yoni talking out of his ass again.

Damn, I peeked.

You've obviously never heard of interest.

A person saving $250.00 a month can reach a million dollars in 51 years at 6% interest, 42 at 8%, and 35 at 10%. Invest your savings wisely and you could, in fact be a millionaire at retirement. I will be; if not sooner.

Love your math skills.

[ElNono]

Damn, I peeked.

You've obviously never heard of interest.

You've obviously never heard of inflation.

A person saving $250.00 a month can reach a million dollars in 51 years at 6% interest, 42 at 8%, and 35 at 10%. Invest your savings wisely and you could, in fact be a millionaire at retirement. I will be; if not sooner.

Love your math skills.

My math skills are fine. Those interest rates are over the inflation rate.
Inflation between 1960-2011 = 665.4%, or an average of 13% / year.

Which means you needed 19% interest for 51 years, 21% for 42, 23% for 35. Now tell me what kind of investment gives you those returns consistently over a 51/42/35 year span.

Thanks for playing.

[ElNono]

Heck, I'll settle if you find me anything with a consistent return of a 10% interest rate over 35 years. So, yeah, not even close.

[Yonivore]

Heck, I'll settle if you find me anything with a consistent return of a 10% interest rate over 35 years. So, yeah, not even close.

I know I'm going to regret re-engaging you.

[ElNono]

I know I'm going to regret re-engaging you.

I didn't ask for probabilities. Buying a $1 ticket buys me odds to be a millionaire too. You said it was a fact that saving 5% or 10% on every paycheck would make all of us millionaires. Fact implies certainty.

I'm calling you out on your claim. What's more, if you want to remain "engaged" I'm not going to let you dodge addressing inflation.

I couldn't care less what you regret, tbh. I didn't ask you to answer.

[Wild Cobra]

I think this resumes your post nicely. $183K is not even close to a millionaire.

And the point I was making with that post, which apparently flew right above your head, is that different people have different situations. Not always the seemingly right decisions, are the right decisions. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Then there's the difference of the guy that starts off with a $60K loan behind his back vs the rich kid that has no such weight. If you take both as being as equally hard worker, intelligent and the like, there's no doubt who is going to have the toughest road, and who might not be able to start saving at 25.

Market crashes, job market conditions. If monetary success would only entail making the "right decisions", then a whole lot more people would be millionaires.

Has nobody ever told you that life isn't fair? We have to do the best we can with the hand we are dealt with in life. Blaming others, or asking the government to legally steal from others is flat out wrong. the bottom line is, we are responsible for ourselves.

[Wild Cobra]

Not even close. $1 million / 40 years = $25000 savings a year = $2000 savings a month (rounded). $2000/mo in savings being 5% of your salary means your salary is $40K/mo. At 10%, your salary would be $20K/mo. That's a pretty ing good salary.

And that figure doesn't even include adjustment for inflation, taxes, SS, etc. and only factors $1 million.

Basically, yoni talking out of his ass again.

Do you understand compound interest, and the fact that the market historically exceeds inflation?

Remember, he didn't index it to inflation.

If you make $50k annual, invest 7.5% of your wages per month at a 8% APR market gain annual, you make a million out of it in 40 years.

[Yonivore]

Has nobody ever told you that life isn't fair? We have to do the best we can with the hand we are dealt with in life. Blaming others, or asking the government to legally steal from others is flat out wrong. the bottom line is, we are responsible for ourselves.

Actually, the website from which I gipped that one-time $10,000 dollar investment chart was showing the chart as the follow up to an anecdote about a theoretical one-time investment in 1932.

For the first 4 quarters the $10,000 would have lost 69% of its value but, if the investor had stayed in the market, it would have realized an average of over 14% over the next 29 years...finally being worth a half million in 30 years. $10,000 is less than $250.00 per month for 10 years so, let's say you start at $250.00 a month and in 10 years you have $30,000. If you left it alone, it would historically realize at least 12-14% but, if you keep investing $250.00 per month for another 30 years, it would be over a million.

Also, inflation only devalues the money. It's still a ing million dollars or more. I wasn't talking about buying power.

[ElNono]

Has nobody ever told you that life isn't fair?

You still haven't told me what your point is. We all know life isn't fair. Nobody here, as far as I can tell, is advocating stealing from anybody.

What is the message you intend to pass along?

[ElNono]

Do you understand compound interest, and the fact that the market historically exceeds inflation?

Remember, he didn't index it to inflation.

If you make $50k annual, invest 7.5% of your wages per month at a 8% APR market gain annual, you make a million out of it in 40 years.

No, he said it was a fact. The market is far, far from a certainty. Nasdaq is -6.54% YTD, S&P -8.12% YTD, Dow -4.10% YTD, not only it wasn't an 8% gain, it didn't even catch up to inflation.

In order for the compound interest to work you need to make at least that 8% gain every year.

Theory is always nice, but when you look at the numbers there's an actual reason why only 1% of the population make it.

[ElNono]

Actually, the website from which I gipped that one-time $10,000 dollar investment chart was showing the chart as the follow up to an anecdote about a theoretical one-time investment in 1932.

For the first 4 quarters the $10,000 would have lost 69% of its value but, if the investor had stayed in the market, it would have realized an average of over 14% over the next 29 years...finally being worth a half million in 30 years. $10,000 is less than $250.00 per month for 10 years so, let's say you start at $250.00 a month and in 10 years you have $30,000. If you left it alone, it would historically realize at least 12-14% but, if you keep investing $250.00 per month for another 30 years, it would be over a million.

Also, inflation only devalues the money. It's still a ing million dollars or more. I wasn't talking about buying power.

So it's not a fact that you can become a millionaire by saving 5%-10% of your paycheck.... didn't think it was.

[Wild Cobra]

No, he said it was a fact. The market is far, far from a certainty. Nasdaq is -6.54% YTD, S&P -8.12% YTD, Dow -4.10% YTD, not only it wasn't an 8% gain, it didn't even catch up to inflation.

In order for the compound interest to work you need to make at least that 8% gain every year.

Theory is always nice, but when you look at the numbers there's an actual reason why only 1% of the population make it.

Nice to know you live in a static world.

[Agloco]

OK, willpower and planning.

Keep going. The list is quite long.

[Agloco]

Edit....wrong thread.

[ElNono]

Nice to know you live in a static world.

Compound interest doesn't wait for the rebound. The money you didn't make this year, you'll have to make up next year + interest to reach your goal. That's why a lot of baby boomers are freaking out and not retiring when they thought they would.

Nice to know you don't know your economics.

[CosmicCowboy]

Compound interest doesn't wait for the rebound. The money you didn't make this year, you'll have to make up next year + interest to reach your goal. That's why a lot of baby boomers are freaking out and not retiring when they thought they would.

Nice to know you don't know your economics.

Actually, El Nono, a 25 year old today has an excellent chance of having a million dollars of savings by the time they retire. The way the US is borrowing and printing money it might even be easy. Of course, by then, a loaf of bread may cost $1000.

[CosmicCowboy]

Compound interest doesn't wait for the rebound. The money you didn't make this year, you'll have to make up next year + interest to reach your goal. That's why a lot of baby boomers are freaking out and not retiring when they thought they would.

Nice to know you don't know your economics.

Plus, you are acting like the only way you can make money is the stock market. Everyone needs housing and if you buy you can turn that monthly housing expense into equity. Also, once you DO save some money you can use that money + brains/initiative to make more money. I started a company as a second job back in the 90's using nothing but credit and sold my share 5 years later for $300,000. Basically I took a financial risk and then invested about 20 additional hours a week of my time. There are a lot of ways to build net worth if you work at it.

[ElNono]

Actually, El Nono, a 25 year old today has an excellent chance of having a million dollars of savings by the time they retire. The way the US is borrowing and printing money it might even be easy. Of course, by then, a loaf of bread may cost $1000.

Exactly what I mean by "adjusted for inflation". I didn't take that out of the equation.

Plus, you are acting like the only way you can make money is the stock market. Everyone needs housing and if you buy you can turn that monthly housing expense into equity. Also, once you DO save some money you can use that money + brains/initiative to make more money. I started a company as a second job back in the 90's using nothing but credit and sold my share 5 years later for $300,000. Basically I took a financial risk and then invested about 20 additional hours a week of my time. There are a lot of ways to build net worth if you work at it.

Actually, I'm the one saying that the stock market isn't guaranteed to give you the kind of returns that are being claimed here (offset by inflation) to make the premise presented here work (or pass as 'fact').

I'm a (minority) business owner too and completely agree there's different ways to make your money. I specifically mentioned in the past I prefer investing in 'brick' than in the market. Or temporarily gold to offset inflation when the economy is in shambles. And obviously, having a good business will help you get there too.

But I also know that getting there requires more than just making the "right choices". You need some resources, a good amount of luck and brainpower, the right people surrounding you and the economic situation around has to be the good too. Even then, life sometimes hits you in the balls too.

I'm nowhere near being a millionaire. I don't stress over it either. I just work hard because that's mostly what I can control. What's really idiotic is people selling you the fairy tale of "it only takes right choices and saving 5%-10% of your salary". That's a magic bullet. There's no such thing or the number of really wealthy and successful people will be way above 1%.

[Wild Cobra]

Exactly what I mean by "adjusted for inflation". I didn't take that out of the equation.

There is no way to predict future stock growth, but long term has been something like 5% above inflation. I guess I should stop using moderate examples, and make extreme examples so your counter arguments make sense.

[Agloco]

But I also know that getting there requires more than just making the "right choices". You need some resources, a good amount of luck and brainpower, the right people surrounding you and the economic situation around has to be the good too. Even then, life sometimes hits you in the balls too.

I'm nowhere near being a millionaire. I don't stress over it either. I just work hard because that's mostly what I can control. What's really idiotic is people selling you the fairy tale of "it only takes right choices and saving 5%-10% of your salary". That's a magic bullet. There's no such thing or the number of really wealthy and successful people will be way above 1%.