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And physically he is SUPERIOR (LBJ) to Kobe, he is just not the better skill player.
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U out your gotdam mind...based in what...why wouldn't it have when Pippen covered for MJ his whole career. MJ couldn't guard Kobe...in fact never faced a player like Kobe...if Kobe didn't score MJ wouldn't have had to do with it.
Dude got defensive honors cuz the media liked his ass....nothing more nothing less...Pippen was the man on D...stop pipe dreaming homie...
I agree Scottie was the best defensive player on the bulls and the best all-around defensive player in the league at that time; but Mike was no chopped liver. And having Pippen guard the best offensive player was genius.
Put Mike on the best offensive player and rely on "I have a migraine" or "I'm sitting out in the playoffs because I won't get the last shot" Pippen to carry you offensively equals a complete fail.
Compare Mike's defensive numbers to Kobe's defensive numbers and it's not even close. , when was the last time Kobe actually worked on the defense end of the court?
I love the respect Bynum's given when it is time to discredit Kobe ...Bynum outside of the Perkins injury has had little impact on Kobe's last 2 rings.
Cant agree that Paxson Kerr and Hodges are more clutch than Fisher and Horry. Those guys were specialists. Horry and Fisher gave you clutch shooting (though not as accurate as the Bulls guys) and were better players too. they provided clutch steals, charges taken (Fisher) or blocks (Horry)
Agree his effort on that end, has been a disappointment in the consistency department. But there are times when he still locks in (not lockdown those days are probably gone) so when people say he never tries that's bull . But when he plays Sacto or Toronto he pretty much doesnt even try and prefers to rebound or double team the best post player or help on a quick PG and gamble for steals.
Not over GP, but over Bulls era Rodman? Yes. Pistons era Rodamn tough call. rodman could gaurd big men, pip could not. rodman could not guard PG's Pippen could. I say Rodman but it's closer than you might think.
I don't disagree they are defensive minded players, (aside from Marion, he was useful in a number of ways) and that they made the league mainly due to that, but it doesnt make them some sorts of extreme lockdown defenders. Very good, no question, but capable of being scored on by elite scorers. MJ would be able to handle them just fine, much like Kobe has been able to.
lol @ 33 points dropped on Mike and Pippen.
First of all, the game was a blowout. STRIKE ONE
secondly, Pippen did not play STRIKE TWO
Thirdly, Kobe scored a total of nine points against Mike. Most of the rest was in garbage time and Mike was on the bench.
need proof????
check the film
22 points not against Mike. Nine against ... give or take 3. Granted, he had some great moves to show his future greatness, but 33 or 42 would not have been dropped on MJ.
Unlike you guys, I love to bring the visual proof and facts instead of, opinion. So when you say he dropped 33 on Mike, please change that to let's say errrrrrrrrrr, nine or ten.
A ing men....
Ashy and Killa mean well but the can't see the forest for the trees it whatever the bell that saying is...
Its more of the same MJ did it all when that didn't. I bought some of the hype back in the day but the Illuminati especially the black Illuminati opened my eyes...that's why I'm so armed with knowledge and dangerous...
MJ had no defense for Kobe's range...MJ was used to beating up on s like John Starks and ...Kool is not impressed...a 2002- 2006 Kobe would have given MJ the business and MJ would have fouled out trying to guard Kobe because his ass wasn't used to checking the opposing best players....a prime Kobe in the West with a prime MJ in the East and we getting half those ing les.
Magic was 31 and 2nd in MVP voting. Still in great shape.
Jordan was .......40 and completely shot.
No comparison. Once again, that's not opinion. That's "fact".
Fair point, but come on neither of those guys were all-stars at that point. But I admit my mistake. I pretty much try to block out that season and the one wher yall ended the 4peat ...too much in-fighting caused me not enjoy the Lakers even when they won the third one ...
But that's a "tommy point" point for you!
lol @ 33 points dropped on Mike and Pippen.
First of all, the game was a blowout. STRIKE ONE
secondly, Pippen did not play STRIKE TWO
Thirdly, Kobe scored a total of nine points against Mike. Most of the rest was in garbage time and Mike was on the bench.
need proof????
check the film
22 points not against Mike. Nine against ... give or take 3. Granted, he had some great moves to show his future greatness, but 33 or 42 would not have been dropped on MJ.
Unlike you guys, I love to bring the visual proof and facts instead of, opinion. So when you say he dropped 33 on Mike, please change that to let's say errrrrrrrrrr, nine or ten.
None of that means the point is...don't try and discredit what a yung Kobe did to MJ while at the same time glorify what a prime MJ done to a worn and HIV riddled Magic.
Magic was an old 31....with HIV how old was MJMagic was 31 and 2nd in MVP voting. Still in great shape.
Jordan was .......
No comparison. Once again, that's not opinion. That's "fact".
Like I previously stated, you guys brings opinion. I bring facts. Luva said Kobe dropped 33 points on Jordan and Pippen and had zero facts. I proceeded to take his theory, throw it in the air, yelled PULL and shot that out of the sky with actual "facts". Don't say and don't bring anything to back it up.
Same with that Tyson debate we had. I brought facts. You brought opinion. Now no one is discrediting Kobe. The baskets he did score on Mike showed his true greatness. But dont say he dropped 33 on Mike and Scottie with (1) knowing Scottie didn't play and (2) knowing that it was a blow out and Mike was on the pine.
it cracks me up when extreme kobe lovers use that as an argument that Kobe > MJ
do the math. mike born in '63 .... game was during the 02-03 season. Dude was either an old 39 or a young 40. Since the game was in March, Mike was 40.
Hey I have no problem with you digging in the Spur fan's ass, do YOU player!A ing men....
Ashy and Killa mean well but the can't see the forest for the trees it whatever the bell that saying is...
Its more of the same MJ did it all when that didn't. I bought some of the hype back in the day but the Illuminati especially the black Illuminati opened my eyes...that's why I'm so armed with knowledge and dangerous...
MJ had no defense for Kobe's range...MJ was used to beating up on s like John Starks and ...Kool is not impressed...a 2002- 2006 Kobe would have given MJ the business and MJ would have fouled out trying to guard Kobe because his ass wasn't used to checking the opposing best players....a prime Kobe in the West with a prime MJ in the East and we getting half those ing les.
But I just figured in between the trolling and flaming we could have some bball talk about MJ vs. Kobe vs. Lebron.
Funny thing is, I agree with a PARt of what you and Luva are saying The league was in a lull especially the 2nd 3 peat for MJ. All of Mj's rings are legit but come on, as good as Stockton was, no way that team could even beat Dallas, miami, lakers of this past season. (or even chicago or OKC if they played smart). An all white backourt that is ALSO under 6 foot 4 may NEVER even make it back to the Finals. Not trying to be racist, just being honest. that's not a knock on MJ he beat the best teams he faced, but imagine them trying to handle Wade or Rose.
The rest of your thesis it's hard to tell if you are just pissing gasoline on a fire ... or if you really believe Kobe will surpass MJ.
Some good points, Ashy. And im not even taking up their cause ...but Magic "peaked" with outsing the Blazers. He had an amazing series truly underrated how he beat a younger favored Blazers team without HCA. Especially with an aging Worthy/Scott and a young vlade.Magic was 31 and 2nd in MVP voting. Still in great shape.
Jordan was .......
No comparison. Once again, that's not opinion. That's "fact".
But his best days were past him. Not washed up, just on the "other side of his peak" ...like kobe is now. Pippen deserves much praise but no way he does what he did to a "prime" Magic.
Using MVP voting is a mixed bag. it wasnt the joke it has been recently. But we all know Mj and Kobe would both have a few more if they did that correctly.
Last edited by Killakobe81; 10-12-2011 at 03:57 PM.
Most likely Magic was HIV+ by then. So he wasn't really Magic. Besides, when Magic was actually in his prime, MJ had just as many rings as you and me. Remember, he didn't rang until the league started expanding and after Bird/Magic were past their primes.
I'd give him major props if he even won one ring during showtime era. Guess what? He wasn't good enough.
totally agree. Magic was where Kobe is right now. On the downside of his career and remember, Magic came back HIV infected at age 36 and avg'd 14.6/7/6. To say he was over the hill in 1991 is asinine. Was he on the wrong side of his peak? Of course. But done? Far from.
Most likely Magic was HIV+ by then. So he wasn't really Magic. Besides, when Magic was actually in his prime, MJ had just as many rings as you and me. Remember, he didn't rang until the league started expanding and after Bird/Magic were past their primes.
I'd give him major props if he even won one ring during showtime era. Guess what? He wasn't good enough.
during that Showtime era, not many were good enough. Detroit and Atlanta can testify to that. And MJ's squad during that era was either booty or young and just coming together. Jordan would have had to get by Detroit, get by Boston; or vice versa ... then get by the Lakers or possibly the Rockets. Wasn't happening in that era.
LeBron has really gotta scratch. That's his problem and losing to the Mavs didn't help. Dude not only lost to the Mavs but had a horrific series especially in the 4th.
Jordan and Bryant are clearly proven.
obviously you didn't read my previous post that literally destroyed this 33 pointS on MJ argument ........ go to page three sir and then reply. YouR was blown to bits .......
PULL
BLAMO
answer this simple question. very simple.
did he score 33 points on Jordan and Pippen as you claimed?
And you may wanna take this back as well because according to the film, in the first quarter so far, unless Mike transformed to look like Jerry Stackhouse and Bryon Russell, he is gettin' lit
I will say, Bryant was probably the best player in the league at this time, and maybe beginning a year prior.
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