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  1. #51
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Prove it.

  2. #52
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    LOL...

    It's already been law for some time. The extra cost is within our power to collect6 revenue. We just need to stop the frivilous spending elsewhere. Obamacare is too large a chunk of money.

    Are you attempting to claim that Obamacare, fully implemented, is cheaper than part D?

  3. #53
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    It's already been law for some time.
    Stop beating around the bush.
    Your claim. Prove it.

  4. #54
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Stop beating around the bush.
    Your claim. Prove it.
    Why, when it's so much fun to see you react this way?

  5. #55
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Why, when it's so much fun to see you react this way?
    Which way? Exposing the fact that you can't back up your 'fact'?

  6. #56
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Which way? Exposing the fact that you can't back up your 'fact'?
    If that's what you want to believe, I don't care.

  7. #57
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Why, when it's so much fun to see you react this way?
    If that's what you want to believe, I don't care.
    Sure you don't

  8. #58
    Believe. admiralsnackbar's Avatar
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    If that's what you want to believe, I don't care.
    You must be a 20-something.

    Aimiright?

  9. #59
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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  10. #60
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    "I have no problem with providing better for our elderly and handicapped."

    It's totally unfunded, and was a huge giveaway to BigPharma since Medicare/Medicaid were forbidden from "single buyer" price negotiations, so they pay 40% more than the VA. And then there was the perverse, cruel donut hole, where seniors simply cut back or quit taking unaffordable drugs.

    Medicare Advantage was also unfunded and another huge giveaway to for-profit insurers. Subsidized, for-profit MC cost 14% more than govt MC. "The private sector can always do it cheaper", right?

    That's how the "MBA" Repugs (mis)govern, by enriching the Corporate-Americans while ing over Human-Americans.

  11. #61
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
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    "I have no problem with providing better for our elderly and handicapped."

    It's totally unfunded, and was a huge giveaway to BigPharma since Medicare/Medicaid were forbidden from "single buyer" price negotiations, so they pay 40% more than the VA. And then there was the perverse, cruel donut hole, where seniors simply cut back or quit taking unaffordable drugs.

    Medicare Advantage was also unfunded and another huge giveaway to for-profit insurers. Subsidized, for-profit MC cost 14% more than govt MC.
    This is factually true. It DOES cost 14% more in administrative costs to process the Medicare-Advantage type programs, and what is amazing to me about it is that some people who are enrolled in them actually think that they are avoiding (not utilizing) Medicare by subscribing to them.

  12. #62
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    yep, $100Bs of profits are premised upon and made from stupid Americans, compounded by the purposely, complexly opaque products and dishonest marketing.

  13. #63
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    The British are getting more efficient with their "Death Panels." Nothing like delegating these routine decisions down to the local level.
    Elderly patients are being condemned to an early death by hospitals making secret use of “do not resuscitate” orders, an investigation has found.

    The orders – which record an advance decision that a patient’s life should not be saved if their heart stops – are routinely being applied without the knowledge of the patient or their relatives.

    On one ward, one-third of DNR orders were issued without consultation with the patient or their family, according to the NHS’s own records. At another hospital, junior doctors freely admitted that the forms were filled out by medical teams without the involvement of patients or relatives. …

    In 2009, heart attack victim Peter Clarke was left to die at Derby Hospitals Trust after clerical staff inserted a DNR form into his notes. Although the do ent was blank, nursing staff making handover notes misinterpreted it, and said the widower, who had been admitted suffering heart disease and flu-like symptoms, should not be resuscitated if his condition worsened.

    When he suffered a heart attack, nurses did not call doctors to revive him. An hour too late they realised the DNR order was blank. Last year an inquest into his death found staff had been “routinely” placing the forms in medical records before they had been signed and witnessed.

  14. #64
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Look like the Brits love their 'socialized medicine' too, and it costs them much less

    Satisfaction
    Nearly three out of four people were “completely” satisfied that their general prac ioner or health center had dealt with the main reason for their visit, according to a 2008 survey from the Picker Ins ute.

  15. #65
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    10 of 1000s of babies die in USA every year for lack of perinatal care, dropping USA's infant mortality way way down the international table, way worse than any other industrial country, due to no universal health care AND health care and health insurance that is suck-you-dry exorbitant.

    To make it worse in TX, the sociopathic Repugs have defunded and closed family planning/maternal care clinics statewide, with the admission that their objective is a war on contraception. Estimate is that there will 20K unwanted pregnancies/year (and 100s more abortion, way to go, "Christian" mother ers), and probably 100s if not 1000s of intensive care or perinatal deaths.

    Keeping score, Yoni? TX alone vs all of UK's "death panel" kills? nah, I didn't think so.

  16. #66
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    Ask any industrial country's citizens if they would trade their universal health care for the "economic Darwinism" of USA health care.

    goddammit, it's fun and easy -slapping Yoni

    Come on, Yoni, unblock me and take it like a man. In fact your just another less law enforcement bully who lvoes to dish it out with the law behind him, but runs away from any push back.

  17. #67
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    10 of 1000s of babies die in USA every year for lack of perinatal care, dropping USA's infant mortality way way down the international table, way worse than any other industrial country, due to no universal health care AND health care and health insurance that is suck-you-dry exorbitant.

    To make it worse in TX, the sociopathic Repugs have defunded and closed family planning/maternal care clinics statewide, with the admission that their objective is a war on contraception. Estimate is that there will 20K unwanted pregnancies/year (and 100s more abortion, way to go, "Christian" mother ers), and probably 100s if not 1000s of intensive care or perinatal deaths.

    Keeping score, Yoni? TX alone vs all of UK's "death panel" kills? nah, I didn't think so.
    Infant mortality, in the United States, is so poor because of the way infants are defined here. Many countries don't even consider premature births, before a certain week gestation, as counting in the mortality rate, if the infant dies.

    We, on the other hand, go to herculean efforts to save every life and, as a result, many infants die -- just as they do in other countries but, where their deaths don't count.

    Incidentally, I wonder where China's one-child practice of killing baby girls, at birth, would place them, if they counted them as deaths.

  18. #68
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Boutons is so hypocritical. Worried about infant mortality rates, byt supports unlimited abortions.

  19. #69
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    This from the guy that wants to forcefully tie tubes... talk about hypocrite

  20. #70
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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  21. #71
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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  22. #72
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    Boutons is so hypocritical. Worried about infant mortality rates, byt supports unlimited abortions.
    You Lie. I hate abortion, but I'm not a woman.

  23. #73
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
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    This was an excellent read, E-N. Thank you for posting it.

    The most important line it ( of many important lines, imo), was the one that showed that dying of old age is not a treatable disease.

    Billy Graham has said, appropriately, that American medicine tends to prolong death rather than prolonging life.

    It is critical that people reaching elderly status take a good long look at how they want to treat themselves and their own children when considering living wills, medical directives, and DNR statements. My husband and I both have them written, saved in a safe place, and communicated to our children and other close relatives. I made sure that my directives are to be administered by my sister (a health care provider in her younger years) so that our children will not have to feel guilty about making the decisions that I want to be made when the time comes.

    These decisions are, I believe, what some have erroneously called 'death panel' decisions. The fact is that most people do not have the resources (mental, emotional, or monetary to pay for the lawyers) to create a lot of these do ents well in advance of when they are desperately needed.
    That reality is why the discussions were encouraged in the recent law. The relabeling of these discussions into 'death panels' is one of the worst examples of political demagoguery in recent years, imo.

    It is hard for people to say 'let me die'. It is even harder for a child or spouse to say 'let him/her die'. That is why it is so useful to have people make these decisions for themselves whenever they can, and to provide help in making those decisions by professionals. They are NOT death panels. They are kindness itself, imo.

    If you have ever watched someone you love go through this sort of thing, I think you might agree.

  24. #74
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    many infants die -- just as they do in other countries but, where their deaths don't count.
    links for other industrial letting premature babies die?

    Countries like China and India don't count because it's well known they prefer boys and abort female babies by the millions.

  25. #75
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    And, once the Supremes laugh the individual mandate out of their court, along with disallowing severability of the provision from the rest of the law, the whole idiotic idea will be a big stinking heap of dung on the courthouse floor.

    I'm sure Chief Justice Roberts will kindly ask the Solicitor General to clean up the mess and remove it from the building.
    That won't happen. You know very little about the Supreme Court if you think they won't uphold that part.

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