Student debt the new deal breaker for marriage?

[Agloco]

That's just it. The universities keep jacking their prices up, because there is always someone stupid enough to get these loans, and government socialist enough to back them. If they had to rely on real supply and demand economics, they would lower their prices.

There aren't more people attending college now than in the past?

[MannyIsGod]

Its obvious from tis thread not many people know much about student loans. Most of that girls debt is from private loans which are not provided in any way shape or form by the government. Undergrad stafford and Perkins loans cap out much lower than 100k. Off the top of my head the amount is near 50k but it might be a bit higher. There are also anual limits.


An annual limit of 2k is a complete non starter and simply foolish. Asking higher education - most of which is NON PROFIT,- to be so inexpensive is completely unrealistic and would serve to make higher ed for the rich only.

I doubt the girl is in Med school based off of her sign and I have to say that if you rack up that much debt for a profession that has poor on prospects then you are part of the problem.

[DMX7]

I don't know what WC means, but "real" supply and demand economics means if people are willing to take out the loans that they're responsible for (can't escape these new ones), then the demand is there even at these prices.

[Drachen]

There aren't more people attending college now than in the past?

WC is talking about the fact that there is no supply and demand economics in the funding for college (which is passed through to the actual attendance for college). Basically, if easy money wasn't available, then it would be harder to attract students, causing colleges to have to increase value or lower cost to attract more students.

[boutons_deux]

the dubya Repugs gave the banks $100Ms in guaranteed profits by having the banks make govt-guaranteed student loans instead of the govt, aka, "privatizing", that costs the students more in interest, aka, that's how privatizing always screws Human-Americans.

the dubya Repugs, regulation=haters!, also passed a regulation (!!!) that tatooed students for eternity with inescapable school debt. Bankruptcy would not remove obligation to repay.

also, the dubya Repugs forced personal bankruptcy people to go see financial counselors before going to court. Almost all bankrupted people were not helped by the financial counselors since they really were bankrupt (mostly due to medical bills), and they were $400 for the wasted time, yet another Repug gift to the financial sector.

[coyotes_geek]

I don't know what WC means, but "real" supply and demand economics means if people are willing to take out the loans that they're responsible for (can't escape these new ones), then the demand is there even at these prices.

I believe WC's point is that the government backing of student loans is artificially inflating demand by making more prospective students think that college loans are affordable. I think he's got a point to an extent.

[MannyIsGod]

Not since the mid to late 80's at least......

Just for perspective, I made roughly 600/month and my father brought in 32k/year back then. I didn't qualify for a pell grant.

Most undergrads I've taught applied for but were rejected as well. That was circa 2000-2004.

I am receiving one but I diddnt until I was a full time student for a full year and had a tax return that was very small. Last year I worked full timeand went to school full time and my very very modest tax return cut into my pell this year by a sizeable amount. This year I worked for the school for next to nothing so I THINK I'll see that amount come back.

[DMX7]

WC is talking about the fact that there is no supply and demand economics in the funding for college (which is passed through to the actual attendance for college). Basically, if easy money wasn't available, then it would be harder to attract students, causing colleges to have to increase value or lower cost to attract more students.

By that logic, going to a public school isn't real supply and demand econoimcs either since its subsidized.

[Drachen]

Its obvious from tis thread not many people know much about student loans. Most of that girls debt is from private loans which are not provided in any way shape or form by the government. Undergrad stafford and Perkins loans cap out much lower than 100k. Off the top of my head the amount is near 50k but it might be a bit higher. There are also anual limits.


An annual limit of 2k is a complete non starter and simply foolish. Asking higher education - most of which is NON PROFIT,- to be so inexpensive is completely unrealistic and would serve to make higher ed for the rich only.

I doubt the girl is in Med school based off of her sign and I have to say that if you rack up that much debt for a profession that has poor on prospects then you are part of the problem.

Didn't even think about the aggregate loan limits for stafford (57500 for undergrad and 138,500k for grad and terminal). For Perkins it is 27k for undergrad, so she could get close to 100k with student loans, but not all the way there. She would have to take about 16k out in private loans.

[Wild Cobra]

WC is talking about the fact that there is no supply and demand economics in the funding for college (which is passed through to the actual attendance for college). Basically, if easy money wasn't available, then it would be harder to attract students, causing colleges to have to increase value or lower cost to attract more students.

I believe WC's point is that the government backing of student loans is artificially inflating demand by making more prospective students think that college loans are affordable. I think he's got a point to an extent.

Yes, you are both correct as to my thinking on this.

[MannyIsGod]

Didn't even think about the aggregate loan limits for stafford (57500 for undergrad and 138,500k for grad and terminal). For Perkins it is 27k for undergrad, so she could get close to 100k with student loans, but not all the way there. She would have to take about 16k out in private loans.

I don't think Perkins and Stafford are separate in that way. I think the loan total limit for undergrad is the 57k INCLUDING Perkins loans but of that 27k can be Perkins. Good luck getting that much in Perkins loans, though.

[boutons_deux]

What's the diff in demand for loans coming directly from the govt (obviously backed by the govt) and for-profit banks offering the loans backed by the govt?

If the banks are making the loans on more expensive terms (esp the default terms. One article I read was about a lady with $75K in loans, she fell behind, the bank gave it to a collection agency that added on $50K for their fees), then that would suppress demand.

[Drachen]

I don't think Perkins and Stafford are separate in that way. I think the loan total limit for undergrad is the 57k INCLUDING Perkins loans but of that 27k can be Perkins. Good luck getting that much in Perkins loans, though.

No I looked it up, they are separate amounts, however you are correct, good luck getting that much in Perkins.

[Drachen]

What's the diff in demand for loans coming directly from the govt (obviously backed by the govt) and for-profit banks offering the loans backed by the govt?

If the banks are making the loans on more expensive terms (esp the default terms. One article I read was about a lady with $75K in loans, she fell behind, the bank gave it to a collection agency that added on $50K for their fees), then that would suppress demand.

WC is advocating the removal of government backing altogether.

Just to be clear, I think the government backing plays an important role in lowering the interest rates, so I am not against the continuance thereof, but I think that maybe the government should stop raising the yearly and aggregate limits (and announce that they are doing so), so that universities will have to slow their tuition growth.

[MannyIsGod]

Drachen, not to mention that if she's under 24 and her parents income is not incredibly low then her limit is actually much lower: 31k. Then her parents have access to a PLUS loan but thats not "her" debt.

[MannyIsGod]

No I looked it up, they are separate amounts, however you are correct, good luck getting that much in Perkins.

Are you sure? I know that my annual limit is the stafford amount but its reached by adding both together. Do you have a link?

[Drachen]

Are you sure? I know that my annual limit is the stafford amount but its reached by adding both together. Do you have a link?

http://www.finaid.org/loans/studentloan.phtml

I don't know for sure how your school presents it, but perhaps you are confusing the subsidized portion of your stafford loan for a perkins loan (they are very similar).

[boutons_deux]

I much prefer to keep the s bag banks out of investment in education, and the govt to return to making the loans and pocketing 100% of the interest.

The govt loans to the financial sector at effectively 0%, then why not loan to students, moving the country forward with an educated populace rather than just pumping up the financial sector no-trickle-down profits?

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.finaid.org/loans/studentloan.phtml

I don't know for sure how your school presents it, but perhaps you are confusing the subsidized portion of your stafford loan for a perkins loan (they are very similar).

Oh no, my school presents it very clearly. I have a subsidized portion, an unsubsidized portion, and a Perkins loan which is very small. My first year here I had to borrow the max due to having to pay out of state tuition (hooray residency) and that max was the Stafford annual max even though it included the Perkins amount as well.

I looked at the link you provided and it provides both limits but it doesn't say that you can borrow the Perkins amount in addition to the Stafford amount. It doesn't say otherwise, but my experiences with the limits say that there isn't some larger limit - just the Stafford limits.

[Drachen]

Oh no, my school presents it very clearly. I have a subsidized portion, an unsubsidized portion, and a Perkins loan which is very small. My first year here I had to borrow the max due to having to pay out of state tuition (hooray residency) and that max was the Stafford annual max even though it included the Perkins amount as well.

I looked at the link you provided and it provides both limits but it doesn't say that you can borrow the Perkins amount in addition to the Stafford amount. It doesn't say otherwise, but my experiences with the limits say that there isn't some larger limit - just the Stafford limits.

the way it is presented there seems otherwise (to me), and since I cannot find anything that is more clear, I will defer to your experience.

[MannyIsGod]

I really could be wrong, but I've had to deal with so much financial aid stuff over the past few years that I really have tried to become an expert. I don't like leaving free money on the table and I like to limit the amount I have to pay back as much as possible.

Luckily - I've found myself a grant that might put me in a position to finish my last few semesters with very little in loans because of this.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm OK with government backed student loan guarantees as long as the loans are inescapable and use the IRS as a collector of last resort.

[Drachen]

I'm OK with government backed student loan guarantees as long as the loans are inescapable and use the IRS as a collector of last resort.

This is pretty much how it is run now.

[MannyIsGod]

I think when people talk about the student debt bubble its the private loans. Getting those loans is really really easy (which makes them a lot like sub prime) and the amount of debt is getting quite high. Once again though, this is not the universities fault as they have nothing to do with these loans. This is all about bad loaning practices.

[coyotes_geek]

I'd rather just get the government out of the student loan business entirely.