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^Cobby, the voice of reason & moderation in troubled times.
MJ didnt win for many years either. Not until Magic, Bird, and Isiah faded into retirement and the league watered down with expansion did he topple the likes of the great Bryon Russell and Craig Ehlo.
And when Kobe, Tim, and Dirk all finally fade away Lebron will get a few too. No way he gets 5+. Not happening.
^Cobby, the voice of reason & moderation in troubled times.
Good pointMJ didnt win for many years either. Not until Magic, Bird, and Isiah faded into retirement and the league watered down with expansion did he topple the likes of the great Bryon Russell and Craig Ehlo.
And when Kobe, Tim, and Dirk all finally fade away Lebron will get a few too. No way he gets 5+. Not happening.
he still s on Kobe though
0 wins, 2 losses
I don't think Laker fans can throw stones when it comes to compe ion level. The 80's West was COMPLETE garbage. It was like the East of the 00's...only with no defense. The East in the 80's was the tougher conference by far with the Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, Hawks, and Pistons rivaling each other at one time throughout the decade. The Lakers had a damn superteam that practically cakewalked to the Finals every year beating soft, mediocre, no-defense teams. The '87 Laker championship squad faced some of the worst compe ion ever seen in a playoff run....a 37-45 Nuggets team, a 42-40 Warriors team and a 39-43 Sonics team before finally seeing a quality opponent in the Finals. And some claim that's one of the best Laker teams ever because they won 65 gamesMJ didnt win for many years either. Not until Magic, Bird, and Isiah faded into retirement and the league watered down with expansion did he topple the likes of the great Bryon Russell and Craig Ehlo.
And when Kobe, Tim, and Dirk all finally fade away Lebron will get a few too. No way he gets 5+. Not happening.
And then the recent Laker 3peat came when the NBA was almost at its absolute worst. The Eastern conference was garbage. Every year LA had to face one quality team during their playoff run in the WCF and then the Finals was a sick joke. And one of those WCF they faced a one man Tim Duncan team with no help in 2001...Derek Anderson with a broke shoulder, Sean Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ with his kidney falling out, two midgets at the guard position in Antonio Daniels and geriatric 37 year old Terry Porter spelling Daniels while wearing a pacemaker and a broken down David Robinson. Yeah, some mighty compe ion there for the Lakeshow.
And it's too bad the Lakers couldn't face the Bulls during the late 90's. The 4 all-star Lakers were too busy getting their pushed in by Bryon Russell and those old, white, unathletic Utah Jazz teams
How did this thread go from choker Lebronze/AIDS Magic to GOAT MJ/perennial coattailer Kobe?
hitmanyr2k, how come MJ didn't win any les during the Showtime era if it were so COMPLETE garbage? How come MJ didn't start winning until the league got watered down with the Heats, Magics, T'Pups, and Grizzlies? Or more specifically like cobby stated, after the primes of Magic, Bird, and Zeke were gone? I'll tell you why, the Bulls were not good enough.
If MJ won even ONE ring during the Showtime era, I'd give him his undisputed props as GOAT. Those teams that used to kick MJ's ass (literally) like the Pistons and Celtics - Magic beat both of them in the Finals. What you gotta say about that?
And don't give me that powerhouse either. Not Magic's fault that the Logo was a better GM than whoever you guys had back then.
The only reason that Magic is not sitting on 7 rings is simple. He had a bad series in '84 (redeemed himself the following year) and blew his hammy in '89, otherwise he's looking at 7 rings in the '80s out of 9 Finals' appearances. That is unheard of. Say what you want, but the '80s was better than that watered down bull in the '90s. And Magic rang 5 times during that golden era. , you and MJ should be kissing Magic and the Lakers' collective asses because that Laker/Celtic rivalry saved the NBA.
hitmanyr2k, let's look at MJ's compe ion in the Finals
1991 - Magic was HIV+, with a soft rookie center named Divac. Worthy=TOSB. Unimpressive le
1992 - Blazers played no defense. Unimpressive le.
1993 - Suns - great _efensive team. Joke le
1996 - Sonics - Glove made MJ shoot tily. Legit le
1997 - Jazz - Malone choked. Legit le
1998 - Jazz - MJ pushed off on Russell*: no foul. Asterisk le
Show me ONE defensive juggernaut team in the above list. Yet people crowning MJ as GOAT?
'84 Celtics
'86 Celtics
'89 Pistons
'90 Pistons
^All these teams kicked MJ's ass while he was in his prime at one time or another. Where were those 6 rangs then?
But but but Nike and MTV and ESPN would have you believe MJ could do no wrong! You guys who were children have no clue. He simply didn't get it done until the winners of the time faded due to age and injuries.
Heck, you can even go back to North Carolinas championship and you would think MJ was the go to guy with all the talk of his "shot" but no... Worthy was the MVP of that team. And when he left. MJ failed again...
Probably because Jordan wasn't on a superteam playing in the weak Western Conference like Magichitmanyr2k, how come MJ didn't win any les during the Showtime era if it were so COMPLETE garbage? How come MJ didn't start winning until the league got watered down with the Heats, Magics, T'Pups, and Grizzlies? Or more specifically like cobby stated, after the primes of Magic, Bird, and Zeke were gone? I'll tell you why, the Bulls were not good enough.
The Bulls didn't start bringing in talent until '87 and it took time (and the right coach) to knock Jordan upside the head and get that chemistry flowing. I'm not going to fault him from that. Most teams go through those growing pains.If MJ won even ONE ring during the Showtime era, I'd give him his undisputed props as GOAT.
No it doesn't. The Celtics and Pistons were established teams. The Bulls were not. And Magic didn't beat anyone in the Finals lol. His superteam that constantly waltzed through a cupcake Western conference beat those Piston and Celtic teams that had to go through a much tougher conference.Those teams that used to kick MJ's ass (literally) like the Pistons and Celtics - Magic beat both of them in the Finals. What you gotta say about that?
If the Lakers didn't have Kareem the Lakers wouldn't have had Magic. It's that simple. That had nothing to do with the GM. That had to do with Magic seeking elite teammates right out of collegeAnd don't give me that powerhouse either. Not Magic's fault that the Logo was a better GM than whoever you guys had back then.
"I'd have stayed in school," he said here Tuesday, standing alone outside Gate 3 1/2 of Chicago Stadium, the house that could have been his. "A coin toss changed the course of my whole life." Chicago called heads in a 1979 coin flip with Los Angeles for the No. 1 pick in the NBA college draft. It came up tails. I wouldn't have played here," Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. "The only reason I came out was to play with Kareem and the Lakers."
There's was nothing "golden" about the West in the 80'sThe only reason that Magic is not sitting on 7 rings is simple. He had a bad series in '84 (redeemed himself the following year
You my friend are a bit misguided. Yes, was not as trong as the east in the 80's ...absolutely. The East in the early to mid 80's had strong, 50 caliber win teams in MIL, ATL, PHI, DET and of course Boston.I don't think Laker fans can throw stones when it comes to compe ion level. The 80's West was COMPLETE garbage. It was like the East of the 00's...only with no defense. The East in the 80's was the tougher conference by far with the Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, Hawks, and Pistons rivaling each other at one time throughout the decade. The Lakers had a damn superteam that practically cakewalked to the Finals every year beating soft, mediocre, no-defense teams. The '87 Laker championship squad faced some of the worst compe ion ever seen in a playoff run....a 37-45 Nuggets team, a 42-40 Warriors team and a 39-43 Sonics team before finally seeing a quality opponent in the Finals. And some claim that's one of the best Laker teams ever because they won 65 games
And then the recent Laker 3peat came when the NBA was almost at its absolute worst. The Eastern conference was garbage. Every year LA had to face one quality team during their playoff run in the WCF and then the Finals was a sick joke. And one of those WCF they faced a one man Tim Duncan team with no help in 2001...Derek Anderson with a broke shoulder, Sean Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ with his kidney falling out, two midgets at the guard position in Antonio Daniels and geriatric 37 year old Terry Porter spelling Daniels while wearing a pacemaker and a broken down David Robinson. Yeah, some mighty compe ion there for the Lakeshow.
And it's too bad the Lakers couldn't face the Bulls during the late 90's. The 4 all-star Lakers were too busy getting their pushed in by Bryon Russell and those old, white, unathletic Utah Jazz teams
But the mid 80's also had strong teams in:
1. Dallas (Aguirre, Tarpley, schrempf, Perkins, harper, blackmon)
2. Portland (Drexler, Porter, duckworth vandewegh)
3. Utah (Malone, Stockton, Thurl Bailey Eaton)
4. Houston (Twin Towers)
Agree the Lakers old PACIFIC DIVISION was weak (Kings and clippers were HORRID) but to say the West was weak means you do not know ball. there were some really good teams in the 80's especially by mid decade.
And the 90's were weaker than the 80's and 00's ...that is no knock on MJ, he beat everyone down he faced ...
In the 80's the West was not weak at all
If the Rockets weren't decimated by injuries which led the management to trade some players and the chemistry up - the WC would have been even tougher
But the East was tougher
In the 80's, the Lakers faced .500 teams past the 1st round.
Or a even a sub .500 in the 87 or 89 WCF (Sonics)
In the early 80's, The Celtics had to get past the Sixers, a great team then.
In 87, they came out of the EC really banged up; no wonder Riley's strategy in that year's Finals was to run run run like there is no tomorrow
And while the 90's were weaker than the 80's, there is NO way in they were weaker than the 00's
hitmanyr2k, how come MJ didn't win any les during the Showtime era if it were so COMPLETE garbage? How come MJ didn't start winning until the league got watered down with the Heats, Magics, T'Pups, and Grizzlies? Or more specifically like cobby stated, after the primes of Magic, Bird, and Zeke were gone? I'll tell you why, the Bulls were not good enough.
If MJ won even ONE ring during the Showtime era, I'd give him his undisputed props as GOAT. Those teams that used to kick MJ's ass (literally) like the Pistons and Celtics - Magic beat both of them in the Finals. What you gotta say about that?
And don't give me that powerhouse either. Not Magic's fault that the Logo was a better GM than whoever you guys had back then.
The only reason that Magic is not sitting on 7 rings is simple. He had a bad series in '84 (redeemed himself the following yeardont know if you heard of these guys but the showtime lakers also had worthy & kareem who are both easily in top 5 of their position.
Last edited by MR.SILVER&BLack; 10-19-2011 at 05:23 PM.
west was not weak but it was nothing like the east in the 80's. 90's was not weaker than 00's. not to mention the 90's actually allowed you to play permiter defense.
To be fair, how many les would Magic have won with Lebron's Cavs rosters?
So the answer is likely zero. Truth always hurts.
Pass Jr., gettin' his asshole on.
You spread your legs and he came
Late 90's was weak.
Early 90's still had Magic, hakeem, chuck etc. to give Mj some compe ion. Mid to late 90's the NBA was weak.
Those 80's Western teams would of never lat the Jazz make backtoback NBA finals. the 80's Jazz (bailey, corbin, Malone stockton and Eaton) would of on the Finals version ...
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