Herman Cain on Abortion

[boutons_deux]

Anybody know what makes humans superior to all other earthly animals?

[101A]

More reason for an amendment to the cons ution that restricts "moral legislation" unless the activity deprives another person of something tangible (property, rights, money, employment, life, etc).

Which would force government to once and for all declare what stage of development qualifies as person-hood.

Would make all forms of govt. assistance illegal. They are the definition of legislated, coercive morality.

[101A]

Anybody know what makes humans superior to all other earthly animals?

God.

[boutons_deux]

bull

anybody else?

[hitmanyr2k]

yup this is why IMO the GOP is a big hypocritical party.

"We don't want goverment telling us what to do. Make abortion illegal."

The hypocrisy comes from the right wing wanting to make abortion illegal but heaven forbid if a single parent needs a federal or state welfare program to provide financial help for raising that kid because we all know how Republicans love to about social programs. Force the woman to have the kid but if she's a single mom that has to work with a deadbeat dad or has no family to help out she and that kid are basically on their own as far as most Republicans are concerned.

[101A]

bull

anybody else?

OK then......oral.

Obviously.

[mingus]

Ultimately what "right" we have to kill or not to kill varies, and abortion is hardly the only case. As I pointed out earlier, there's death row. Then there's killing under the war umbrella. Then killing in self-defense. Basically, what's justified "killing" is whatever as a society we make it to be.

I'm not for the death penalty.

Are you really comparing self-defense and decimating the Nazis to aborting a fetus?

[admiralsnackbar]

I'm not for the death penalty.

Are you really comparing self-defense and decimating the Nazis to aborting a fetus?

Probably not, but given the death penalty has claimed thousands of innocent lives because legal systems are ever-fallible, he has an argument you aren't acknowledging.

[Wild Cobra]

Hormonal contraceptives don't prevent conception, they help prevent ovulation and diminish the fertilized egg's ability to attach to the wall of the uterus.

In other words: you're wrong.

An abortion does not occur until after the egg attaches itself to the wall of the uterus. If this never happens, it isn't an abortion.

[mingus]

If I found out God did exist tomorrow, I'd still be pro-choice.

Good for you. I'm not going to buy into a system that dictates a woman is allowed abort her baby one day, but the following day not be allowed to have it aborted. It smells funny.

[Wild Cobra]

I think he specifically said that "life begins at conception"

So wouldn't the morning after, by definition, be after conception and an abortion?

They are usually effective to about 3 or 4 days, the the longer one waits, the less effective they are. Still, it isn't technically an abortion if the egg never attaches to the uterus, which is how some of these work. There are different types of emergency contraceptives. So no, it isn't an abortion.

If Cain knows the difference of not? Cannot say. Not to give a person the benefit of doubt however is a rather biased or agenda driven way to be.

[admiralsnackbar]

No.

Actually, yes.

[admiralsnackbar]

An abortion does not occur until after the egg attaches itself to the wall of the uterus. If this never happens, it isn't an abortion.

But it is a conception. Tricky, the es.

[mingus]

Probably not, but given the death penalty has claimed thousands of innocent lives because legal systems are ever-fallible, he has an argument you aren't acknowledging.

I completely acknowledge it. And I'm against the death penalty for much of the same reasons I'm against abortion: uncertainty.

[admiralsnackbar]

I completely acknowledge it. And I'm against the death penalty for much of the same reasons I'm against abortion: uncertainty.

So you just threw a straw-man Nono's way for... kicks?

[ElNono]

I'm not for the death penalty.

Are you really comparing self-defense and decimating the Nazis to aborting a fetus?

You didn't answer my previous question (fetus alive, etc)

And I'm comparing killing with killing. But thanks for making my point: you only oppose killing when it fits your opinion/view/ideology. Which was exactly my point.

[ElNono]

The hypocrisy comes from the right wing wanting to make abortion illegal but heaven forbid if a single parent needs a federal or state welfare program to provide financial help for raising that kid because we all know how Republicans love to about social programs. Force the woman to have the kid but if she's a single mom that has to work with a deadbeat dad or has no family to help out she and that kid are basically on their own as far as most Republicans are concerned.

Obviously this is when forcefully tied tubes becomes a wise option

[ElNono]

Good for you. I'm not going to buy into a system that dictates a woman is allowed abort her baby one day, but the following day not be allowed to have it aborted. It smells funny.

But you already bought into that system.

It's the same system that told you that the Taliban are our friends, but the following day told you they're our enemies and we've to kill them.

[mingus]

So you just threw a straw-man Nono's way for... kicks?

Not sure what your talking about. I addressed his point.

[Wild Cobra]

But it is a conception. Tricky, the es.

Yes it is, and he never said keeping a conception from becoming a pregnancy should be illegal. Again, it's not an abortion until there is a pregnancy.

[mingus]

You didn't answer my previous question (fetus alive, etc)

And I'm comparing killing with killing. But thanks for making my point: you only oppose killing when it fits your opinion/view/ideology. Which was exactly my point.

And my opinion/view/ideology is right.

[admiralsnackbar]

Yes it is, and he never said keeping a conception from becoming a pregnancy should be illegal. Again, it's not an abortion until there is a pregnancy.

It doesn't terribly matter what he said considering the OP's reason for posting the clip was to make light of Cain's completely contradictory/evasive position.

Is "life begins at conception" ambiguous? If an egg is fertilized and it is chemically induced to be purged, it is, under that definition of life, an "abortion," legal or otherwise.

Ask your wife, since you won't take it from me or your 7th-grade health teacher.

[admiralsnackbar]

And my opinion/view/ideology is right.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."

[ElNono]

And my opinion/view/ideology is right.

But you don't know that your opinion/view/ideology is right. You just think it is.

Which is why you keep dodging answering this question:

If you found out tomorrow that a fetus isn't "alive" until some arbitrary time after fertilization (for example's sake, let call it 3 months), would you still be "pro-life"?

[101A]

The hypocrisy comes from the right wing wanting to make abortion illegal but heaven forbid if a single parent needs a federal or state welfare program to provide financial help for raising that kid because we all know how Republicans love to about social programs. Force the woman to have the kid but if she's a single mom that has to work with a deadbeat dad or has no family to help out she and that kid are basically on their own as far as most Republicans are concerned.

It also hypocrisy to claim a pro-life position is "legislating morality", while supporting a welfare program which is also "legislative morality". Albeit with property confiscation thrown in for good measure to support that morality.