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  1. #276
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    except, that it's easier to buy off legislators and it's legal, and it's riskier for judges to do so.

    You srsly need to attend your daily cucking rather than defend your invalid points.
    Contribution to judges re-election campaigns is perfectly legal, insult boy.

  2. #277
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    except you'd have busts that would last less than two years not 15 like in the great depression because of govt intervention. Btw, corporations didn't get legal power till later in the 19th century. You're too stupid and uneducated in this matter to discuss this with.

    Capitalism led to improving the conditions of the everyday american, not govt intervention, it was in the 19th century that you had the greatest mobility from the poor to middle class in all of history.

    Govt sponsored crony capitalism gets old.
    Busts lasted a uva lot longer than two years.
    The 19th century simply saw the subs ution of grinding poverty in a city for the grinding poverty of a farm.

    History fail.

  3. #278
    on instagram, str8 flexin DUNCANownsKOBE's Avatar
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    I don't think government guaranteed mortgages are the "regulations" democrats have in mind. At all.

  4. #279
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Solid logic, so you'd rather have ex corporate ceos sit on legislative boards in trade commitees, while they appoint good ole boys to run the beuracracies that pass regulations to help them out and squash compe ion.


    Atleast in court you get to have a hearing, you don't get one in congress.
    COngress does allow for elections, on a regular basis.

    Large cartels and monopolies didn't need government regulations to squash compe ion, and drag economic growth.

    More history fail.

  5. #280
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    except you'd have busts that would last less than two years not 15 like in the great depression because of govt intervention. Btw, corporations didn't get legal power till later in the 19th century. You're too stupid and uneducated in this matter to discuss this with.

    Capitalism led to improving the conditions of the everyday american, not govt intervention, it was in the 19th century that you had the greatest mobility from the poor to middle class in all of history.

    Govt sponsored crony capitalism gets old.
    Yeah the working man was in such great shape in 1870. Upton Sinclair says go yourself.

    This is also nice revisionist history. Only problem was that Hoover did enact the policies that you are espousing when the market crashed and the bottom fell out like it never had before. There was no self correction. Zero evidence of that whatsoever.

    As for your legal power, they indeed did not get broadened interpretation of the word persons until that time however there was absolutely no evidence that they were fettered in any way shape or form. Carnegie, Rockefeller, and Morgan all had pretty much absolute control over their dominion railroads were granted tremendous tracts of land. The medical industry was centralizing as was all other trades.

    And the definition of middle class etc during that time period was a much different dynamic. This was the time period during which people moved home from rural areas and women and children were pressed into service in American factories. I would like to see your study talking about class movement during that time period because trying to paint it with the modern brush paints nothing at all.

  6. #281
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    they didn't deregulate in totality, the govt did the same thing with what it did in the late 90s leading up to 2008 with Glass Steagal, they eased up on a regulation and caused a crisis, but the reason why the crisis was caused is because govt still had it's hand in the market with guaranteeing bank loans on mortgatges, which basically allowed for risky investment.

    Regulations always make the case for more regulations to fix the problems tthat the original regulations caused.

    It's ridiculous. If you had no govt guaranteed mortgages you wouldn't have risky investments in the first place.
    It was the "innovation" of bundling mortages into bonds that freed up the banks that were originating the loans from facing the consquences of defaults. They had no motivation at all to have decent underwriting practices at that point, and good old fashioned capitalism did the rest.

    You do know that the mortgages guaranteed by Fanny and Freddy were less than half of the total mortgages bundled into securities, right?

  7. #282
    on instagram, str8 flexin DUNCANownsKOBE's Avatar
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    If anyone thinks 19th century America was an awesome place to live, we have plenty of lovely 3rd world countries all over the world that present a similar lifestyle. I'd recommend looking into it if you like 19th century America tbh.

  8. #283
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Yeah the working man was in such great shape in 1870. Upton Sinclair says go yourself.

    This is also nice revisionist history. Only problem was that Hoover did enact the policies that you are espousing when the market crashed and the bottom fell out like it never had before. There was no self correction. Zero evidence of that whatsoever.

    As for your legal power, they indeed did not get broadened interpretation of the word persons until that time however there was absolutely no evidence that they were fettered in any way shape or form. Carnegie, Rockefeller, and Morgan all had pretty much absolute control over their dominion railroads were granted tremendous tracts of land. The medical industry was centralizing as was all other trades.

    And the definition of middle class etc during that time period was a much different dynamic. This was the time period during which people moved home from rural areas and women and children were pressed into service in American factories. I would like to see your study talking about class movement during that time period because trying to paint it with the modern brush paints nothing at all.
    It is less revisionist history than simple ignorance of history. It is the libertarian-colored glasses effect. Capitalism, like some sort of God is infallible, and all evidence to the contrary is suspect.

  9. #284
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    except, that it's easier to buy off legislators and it's legal, and it's riskier for judges to do so.

    You srsly need to attend your daily cucking rather than defend your invalid points.
    Do you even pay attention to the courts in Texas? You can literally contribute financially to the judge that is to review your case. You talk about how other people are ignorant but you do not even know whats going on around you. Being able to make contributions directly to the arbiter of your fate is the easiest thing in the world.

  10. #285
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    we didn't have a massive depression until the 30's with govt controls and the federal reserve.

    There will always be booms and busts.

    But there should never be 15 year bust cycles like in Hoover and FDR's tenure, i'm sure you're going to blame the free market there.
    Lets get some timeline down here. Market crashed in 1929. Hoover was presented and had continued the policy of his predecessors barring Teddy of laissez fair free market policy. That policy continued for 1929-1933 which was Hoover's last year in office. Unemployment did not indicate some impending boom. It was at 25% in 1934 when FDR took over.

    You bet your ass i am going to blame no holds barred laissez fair policy responsible as it was that for 100 years minus Ted's 3 years up to 1933. McKinley, Garfield, Harrison oh my.

  11. #286
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    let it be a state issue, that way we have real laboratories of democracy.
    But state government is still government... so you still have intervention, which isn't the role your system wants for government.

    The system you propose isn't inherently wrong, but it's simply unattainable. An utopia. And the biggest problem is that you have to have the system in it's totality. You can't build towards it, because if it fails at some stage, the blame will always be on some control, regulation or government.

  12. #287
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    Busts lasted a uva lot longer than two years.
    The 19th century simply saw the subs ution of grinding poverty in a city for the grinding poverty of a farm.

    History fail.
    It saw a rise in the standard of living. America was in a period of transition from and agricultural society to an industrial one. The needs and demands of the people were changing little by little.

    To think that the industrial age didn't bring prosperity shows your lack of economic history. The cost of goods were dropping year by year. Btw the great depression was the worst bust america ever encountered , and it was govt controls that caused it and prolonged it.\

  13. #288
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    I don't think government guaranteed mortgages are the "regulations" democrats have in mind. At all.
    So are u saying that they too want to get rid of Fannie and freddie?

  14. #289
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    If anyone thinks 19th century America was an awesome place to live, we have plenty of lovely 3rd world countries all over the world that present a similar lifestyle. I'd recommend looking into it if you like 19th century America tbh.
    That's right, because if we were to scale back the dept of education, no one would go to school, if we were to scale back our transportation budget, we'd all would lose DA ROADS!!! and then mcdonalds and kfc would have to bring da food to us, and make even more money!!!!!


    If it wasn't for an rust laws, well you'd have corporations get so big that they would build armies and become their own countries and we cant have det!!!


    WE'd have Taco Bell Invade Mexico!!!!!

    By Golly!!! we'd have Tyson's Chicken attack the country of Turkey using private mercenaries from Bologna, Italy!!


    We need govt guys!!!!!

  15. #290
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    If we privatized da rods, we wouldn't have xbox 360's!!!!

    Steve Jobs would have never been born!!!

  16. #291
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    But state government is still government... so you still have intervention, which isn't the role your system wants for government.

    The system you propose isn't inherently wrong, but it's simply unattainable. An utopia. And the biggest problem is that you have to have the system in it's totality. You can't build towards it, because if it fails at some stage, the blame will always be on some control, regulation or government.
    A govt that respects individual rights is a utopia.. okay.


    I guess the cons ution is a utopian do ent.

  17. #292
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    A govt that respects individual rights is a utopia.. okay.

    I guess the cons ution is a utopian do ent.
    The cons ution establishes much more than individual rights... including granting Congress the ability to regulate commerce and taxing powers, among other things.

    To establish your utopian society the Cons ution would require some severe rewriting.

  18. #293
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    we didn't have a massive depression until the 30's with govt controls and the federal reserve.
    Panic of 1873?

  19. #294
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    It saw a rise in the standard of living. America was in a period of transition from and agricultural society to an industrial one. The needs and demands of the people were changing little by little.

    To think that the industrial age didn't bring prosperity shows your lack of economic history. The cost of goods were dropping year by year. Btw the great depression was the worst bust america ever encountered , and it was govt controls that caused it and prolonged it.\
    I didn't say that the industrial revolution didn't raise living standards. It did.

    It just didn't do much of it in the 19th century.

    The "Great Depression" really only got the moniker because it was the first one in the modern era, and the first one for which fairly solid data was available.

    You can't say "it was the worst bust america ever encountered" because of that overall lack of data. It just got the most press.

    http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/...tm#DEPRESSIONS

    The fact that the periodic busts throughout our history have been on hiatus since we enacted some sane financial regulation after the 1929 depression, and that repeal of some of the legislation from this period appears to be a contributing factor to the current bust does not help your cause.

    In the interest of intellectual honesty, it should be noted that each of the busts above were caused, in no small part, from the actions of government.

    That makes the case for the minimization of governmental intrusion into the economy, but not really a good case for *no* governmental oversight of economic activity.

    Governmental regulation forms the underlying structure for a functioning economy. It provides the "ground rules" for a free market system to operate.

  20. #295
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    A govt that respects individual rights is a utopia.. okay.


    I guess the cons ution is a utopian do ent.
    Meh. It has some nice parts, but needs to be scrapped and heavily re-written in my opinion.

  21. #296
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    That's right, because if we were to scale back the dept of education, no one would go to school, if we were to scale back our transportation budget, we'd all would lose DA ROADS!!! and then mcdonalds and kfc would have to bring da food to us, and make even more money!!!!!


    If it wasn't for an rust laws, well you'd have corporations get so big that they would build armies and become their own countries and we cant have det!!!


    WE'd have Taco Bell Invade Mexico!!!!!

    By Golly!!! we'd have Tyson's Chicken attack the country of Turkey using private mercenaries from Bologna, Italy!!


    We need govt guys!!!!!
    I see you have me in the crushing grip of straw.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly

    Both of these are fairly common results of pure capitalism.

    So are distortions based on information assymetry.

    Free markets and the ability to freely allocate capital in response to market demands are genuine drivers of growth and innovation.

    But to function, you have to provide rules that minimize these distortive results.

    That requires government, whether you like it or not.

    I think free markets are good things, I just don't blindly worship them.
    I think governments are good things, I just don't blindly worship them, either.

  22. #297
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    The cons ution establishes much more than individual rights... including granting Congress the ability to regulate commerce and taxing powers, among other things.

    To establish your utopian society the Cons ution would require some severe rewriting.
    lol, again with this .. whose arguing for an anarchal society??

    I'm not against taxation for the purposes of protecting life liberty and property, we didn't even have an income tax in this country until 1913.

    Stop with the insanity, do some research will you!

  23. #298
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    lol, again with this .. whose arguing for an anarchal society??
    Lets have a society that has civil law to where no one can use force or fraud to obtain wealth or happiness, and we have voluntary mutual transactions free of govt. The govt would be only there as a retalliatory force against force, fraud and coercion.
    Things like sales tax would preclude "voluntary mutual transactions free of govt". Furthermore, taxing in general is "wealth redistribution".

    But what really makes your proposal utopian is that you believe government will restrict the use of those tools granted to them by the cons ution on their own volition.

    It's not going to happen, which is why you either need to rewrite the cons ution abolishing those tools or simply stop entertaining this idea since it's really a waste of time.

  24. #299
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    lol, again with this .. whose arguing for an anarchal society??

    I'm not against taxation for the purposes of protecting life liberty and property, we didn't even have an income tax in this country until 1913.

    Stop with the insanity, do some research will you!
    No one is forcing you to pay income taxes.

    You are no more held to paying income taxes than an employee who is upset about pay is held to a job.

    Move. Go some place else. , stop working. become a hunter gatherer in the forest.

    No one is forcing you to stay or work to pay income taxes. If you like like it, GTFO.

  25. #300
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    lol, again with this .. whose arguing for an anarchal society??

    I'm not against taxation for the purposes of protecting life liberty and property, we didn't even have an income tax in this country until 1913.

    Stop with the insanity, do some research will you!
    Some research is good. i would start by googling "civil war income tax." You need to go to where you get your 'facts' from and reevaluate. You have been fed bull dogma and its pretty obvious.

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