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  1. #26
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    immigration is just a whipping boy when the economy tanks. when times are good, people need cheap labor, and the clamour dies down.

  2. #27
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Random, you just don't get it.
    It was more of a commentary on Darrin's shallow and vapid style of brief replies than anything else.

    Satire by smiley, if you will.

    I do get it. Honest.

  3. #28
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Yes, I did get that. At the same time, you have less people supporting a longer living group that may exceed the younger generation.

    My point had to do with not being able to guarantee free services to the aging population that may soon start living past 100 as an average. If they cannot afford life extending treatments, should the general population have to pay all their wealth in taxes to do so?
    How would one define "life extending treatments"?

    High blood pressure medication?

    At some point, one MUST trade off cost versus human lives. I understand that. Either we can pay out through overall lower productivity, or pay out a bit more for health care.

    I think there would be some solid cost/benefit for national health insurance, and making basic health care a bit more accessible.

  4. #29
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Encouraging immigration is one way to alleviate that problem. Riposte?
    We do encourage legal immigration. A few of the problems with illegal immigration is that they drain more in social programs than they pay in taxes, are generally taking away lower paying jobs that our unemployed should be forced to take, and reduce the desire for us to increase legal immigration quotas. Legal immigrants on the other hand usually are better educated and produce a net gain to our economy, thus can help support more jobs.

    You would be hard pressed to find many who despises legal immigration into this country. Please differentiate.

  5. #30
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    It’s quiet most days in the El Paso sector, as the Border Patrol dubs this 268-mile slice of the border. Back in 1993, agents arrested 285,781 people trying to enter America illegally. In those days, the holding cells in the processing centre, explains Scott Hayes, a Border Patrol agent, were full to bursting. In 2010, however, agents picked up only 12,251 illegal immigrants in the area—a 96% decline. Much the same is true of the border as a whole: last year’s tally, of 447,731 arrests, is barely a quarter that of the peak year, 2000, when 1,643,679 people were intercepted. This year’s figure will be under 350,000; a fifth of the peak.
    http://www.economist.com/node/21538750

  6. #31
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    And this is suppose to mean what? Please elaborate on what your intended message is.

    There are several factors I bet, making the numbers as they are.

  7. #32
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Mass immigration as a social problem is vastly overhyped.

  8. #33
    Troll
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    Some of you are so stupid I fail to see how you can remember to breathe.

    Baby boomers are retiring and will start to suck the life out of this country, just watch. When they were young, there where 20 workers for every retiree...now its about 3-1 soon to be 2-1. The American engine is getting spread pretty thin.

    We need more immigrants, period. The bottom line is with this hard line stance, along with hard line stances on taxes, spending, etc are screwing over the younger generation.

    There is going to be blow back of immense proportions. Sarah Palin's advisers tell her to be scared of death panels for a reason.

  9. #34
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    We do encourage legal immigration.

    You would be hard pressed to find many who despises legal immigration into this country. Please differentiate.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tanton

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Beck

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NumbersUSA

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_for_American_Immigration_Reform

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Tancredo

  10. #35
    above average height mavs>spurs's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with allowing working professionals with degrees to immigrate, but wtf should we let the average construction working Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ come over by the millions?

  11. #36
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    Housing needs those workers. Oh yes they do.

  12. #37
    above average height mavs>spurs's Avatar
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    Um joe get real, who the is building houses in this economy? this housing market is terrible. sorry but that example just backfired and blew up in your brown face, turning it more black

  13. #38
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Mass immigration as a social problem is vastly overhyped.
    Mass legal, or illegal?

  14. #39
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Legal immigration is capped, no such thing as mass legal immigration.

  15. #40
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Housing needs those workers. Oh yes they do.
    I don't think the housing market will recover for some time. I remember seeing reports in parts of Portland where at the top of the housing prices, more houses were being built than normal. The reason was because it became far cheaper to build new, than people were asking for the houses they were flipping. It stand tioi reason that big investors also built more houses seeing the profit of selling at then, current prices. Now we have an dramatic overage of houses. When they all go back on the market, the excess supply to demand will drive prices down more. Right now, so many are in limbo. No occupant, but not on the market either.

  16. #41
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Mass legal, or illegal?
    Both, imho.

  17. #42
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    Um joe get real, who the is building houses in this economy? this housing market is terrible. sorry but that example just backfired and blew up in your brown face, turning it more black
    The post-Greenspan-bubble collapse of the new housing market is one of key reasons illegal immigration is way down. They come for jobs, and (eg, (TX) Repug) businessmen were/are extremely ready to hire them.

    The other main reason is the drug violence in northern MX.

    Still no practical, workable proposals from the right-wing xenophobes about how to resolve the problem of millions of illegals still in USA. Just screaming "no amnesty" is useless other than as a brilliant rabble-rousing campaign sound bite, since the rabble don't have the mental capacity to think with any complexity.

  18. #43
    above average height mavs>spurs's Avatar
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    Here's an idea, make it a felony to hire them, create a national database for employers to have to enter a SS# when hiring an employee and it will tell you if it's valid or not. I guarantee you all the illegals will be magically gone in a matter of months without work.

  19. #44
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Here's an idea, make it a felony to hire them, create a national database for employers to have to enter a SS# when hiring an employee and it will tell you if it's valid or not. I guarantee you all the illegals will be magically gone in a matter of months without work.
    Your worldview lacks a certain element of realism. Go back to the drawing board.

  20. #45
    above average height mavs>spurs's Avatar
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    bahahaha and why is this so unrealistic? because the rich in power like the slave wages and don't WANT them gone? so what, we just bow down to the mexicans then or what? let's hear your bright idea.

  21. #46
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    Here's an idea, make it a felony to hire them, create a national database for employers to have to enter a SS# when hiring an employee and it will tell you if it's valid or not. I guarantee you all the illegals will be magically gone in a matter of months without work.
    Many businesses have flourished, profit-wise, from illegals, and for decades. They would never accept such laws, and anyway, e-Verify hasn't chased them home.

  22. #47
    above average height mavs>spurs's Avatar
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    so they're going to accept legalization of all these mexicans so that they no longer have to work for slave wages? why would they be opposed to this but welcome amnesty?

  23. #48
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    bahahaha and why is this so unrealistic? because the rich in power like the slave wages and don't WANT them gone? so what, we just bow down to the mexicans then or what? let's hear your bright idea.
    Because a good amount of labor supplied from illegal immigrants is undo ented, cash wages. Making some database to check SS #s isn't going to change that.

  24. #49
    above average height mavs>spurs's Avatar
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    you're missing my point..i'm saying make it a FELONY to not have your employees in the database and actually enforce it, throwing the employers who hire illegals in prison. If inspectors can go around to bars and ensure that they are checking everyone for ID and following regulations, surely they could make sure that employers are following the law.

  25. #50
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    so they're going to accept legalization of all these mexicans so that they no longer have to work for slave wages? why would they be opposed to this but welcome amnesty?
    You don't really get it, do you?

    The businesses who hire and profit from illegal labor want nothing more than than the status quo. They don't want their supply of cheap labor sent home via deportation, and then don't want the price of their labor to increase dramatically by legalizing them. For those who hire illegals, things are perfect right where they are. And isn't just agricultural labor - visit any restaurant in America and there is a good chance you have an illegal immigrant working there. Some restaurants even go out of their way to hire illegals because 1) they are cheaper and 2) they work harder.

    What, exactly, is your objective here? Do you want to have America free of illegal immigrants? Why? Because you think it would be good for the economy? Or some moral grounds? I'm seriously asking here - so many people have formed an opinion of immigration without thinking about what they are trying to achieve.

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