Why Republicans Embrace Simpletons and How it Hurts America

[ElNono]

Those in your camp can only hope. Scriptures run counter to your argument that Jesus doesn't care, but go ahead and get all your kicks in while you still can... and then when you face Him on judgement day, be sure to claim ignorance, 'that you simply didn't know any better'.... oh wait... I might have messed that up for you... meh... Frankly, you are all accountable for your own actions. If you choose to reject Jesus' offer of grace, that's entirely on YOU.

I was talking about boutons...

lol planning for the afterlife
lol living in fear of judgement day
lol tiptoeing not to anger imaginary friend
lol imaginary friend a sensitive, vindicative asshole
lol 'scriptures' written by men for men
lol Santa Claus written by men for men

[Phenomanul]

Yes they were.

If they weren't, up until about 1900 or so, they faced severe social ostracism and marginalisation.

I would point out that in the modern era, the most recent execution for heresy was 1826, and it was commonplace to execute people for going against church teachings up until about that time.

Kind of hard to buck the system when the price was death. I would swear up and down how much I believed, if the alternative is being burned at the stake.

I don't have to downplay anything. It is what it is.

If you are brought up believing something, and fairly intelligent, you can rationalize all sorts of irrational things.

Especially when you have no evidence to the contrary.

The problem for your trumpeting of this fact is that, as more evidence about the universe is discovered by mankind, the less likely brilliant people are to deeply believe in various religions.

You're conveniently mixing up your historical eras... you can't talk about the age governed by the Catholic Church (not fully representative of the tenets of Christianity despite their claims), and the Renaissance period of 'enlightenment'... the period from whence the Scientific Movement was born...

Again, your rationalized predisposition to believe that their faith wasn't genuine wouldn't explain why men such as Isaac Newton (the father of calculus and physics) wrote entire volumes dedicated to understanding GOD's role in our universe. ["yeah, they were believers... but, but, but... they didn't have a choice..." <-- that's more of the same disingenuousness I alluded to earlier...]

I would gladly discuss this topic further with you (even if our conversations tend to run ad naseum)... but I have much to do today at work... Peace out.

[ElNono]

Oh, and if I'm wrong, I'm not scared of being judged... there's certainly better, more logical and reasonable explanations than "I didn't know better", and frankly, I don't care. I'm living my life like it ends when it ends.

[ElNono]

You are starting to post like a crazy person. Just a heads up.

[Phenomanul]

I was talking about boutons...

lol planning for the afterlife
lol living in fear of judgement day
lol tiptoeing not to anger imaginary friend
lol imaginary friend a sensitive, vindicative asshole
lol 'scriptures' written by men for men
lol Santa Claus written by men for men

LOL that you would believe "I live in fear"... I've learned never worry about what tomorrow holds. By contrast, and by personal experience, most, if not all of my co-workers are constantly fretting about finances, health, problems with their family, confrontations with others, problems with the law, self-esteem issues, etc... True, being a Christian doesn't prevent me from having to endure some of those same difficulties, the difference is that I've learned to manage them with a Christ-centered perspective... and it makes all the difference in the world...

[clambake]

you are the true saint over that flock.

[ElNono]

LOL that you would believe "I live in fear"... I've learned never worry about what tomorrow holds. By contrast, and by personal experience, most, if not all of my co-workers are constantly fretting about finances, health, problems with their family, confrontations with others, problems with the law, self-esteem issues, etc... True, being a Christian doesn't prevent me from having to endure some of those same difficulties, the difference is that I've learned to manage them with a Christ-centered perspective... and it makes all the difference in the world...

It's what you preach, buddy. When you write stuff like...

get all your kicks in while you still can... and then when you face Him on judgement day, be sure to claim ignorance

...you're preaching fear, not grace. That's the psychotic aspect of all this.

[RandomGuy]

You're conveniently mixing up your historical eras... you can't talk about the age governed by the Catholic Church (not fully representative of the tenets of Christianity despite their claims), and the Renaissance period of 'enlightenment'... the period from whence the Scientific Movement was born...

Again, your rationalized predisposition to believe that their faith wasn't genuine wouldn't explain why men such as Isaac Newton (the father of calculus and physics) wrote entire volumes dedicated to understanding GOD's role in our universe. ["yeah, they were believers... but, but, but... they didn't have a choice..." <-- that's more of the same disingenuousness I alluded to earlier...]

I would gladly discuss this topic further with you (even if our conversations tend to run ad naseum)... but I have much to do today at work... Peace out.

To be clear: I am sure their faith was genuine. As I said before, they had little evidence that the world was not exactly as depicted in the Bible.

Well, your mention of "modern era" was a bit amorphous. Can't blame me for a good faith effort of trying to fill in what you don't specify what you mean.

I was actually trying to be a bit generous. If you want to start going all "look at the Rennaisance Enlightenment" there were no few people put to death, by both Catholics and Protestants, during the reformation, then you are making my case partly for me.

I have work to do as well. We will have to wait for my outline as to how wrong you are for later.

[Phenomanul]

It's what you preach, buddy. When you write stuff like...

get all your kicks in while you still can... and then when you face Him on judgement day, be sure to claim ignorance

...you're preaching fear, not grace. That's the psychotic aspect of all this.

I guess only those in your camp are en led to sarcasm...

I'm not preaching to anyone here... you all have clearly, decidedly, made your choices regarding Christ's offer of grace... it's rather poignant when you all insult Him directly, and constantly claim "intellectual superiority and reason" as the basis for your choice.. That has been your typical stance in every one of these threads...

Your observational rebuttal of my stance or my choice of words hence, "doesn't fly" in light of your own tendencies... not when your own at udes clearly indicate you've already made up your mind... but, that didn't stop you from erroneously claiming I lived in fear...

[vy65]

So why should I be 'forced' to live under a government defined strictly by your perspective, your world-view? Oh that's right, you're advocating the need for a fascist state defined solely by your atheistic view... because in your mind godless secularism, and moral relativism is the only correct view by which the government should operate...

In other words, the voice of millions of American believers whose opinion doesn't jive with your own dogma should be left unrepresented for the greater 'good' of having a government that imposes only your beliefs... Got it.

smh... Some people simply fail to grasp the most basic of concepts concerning the Democratic process... Did you not take U.S. Government in High School?

I don't have to agree with the Ku Klux Klan belief system, but they're en led to believe whatever they want, and to lobby for whatever they want... Ultimately, popular vote wins out... as long as it doesn't interfere with our Cons utionally protected rights...

lolwut

[Blake]

He's giving humanity ample time to turn away from their sinfulness, to repent and turn to Him... We must all take accountability for our own actions. If you want to take Jesus head on, however, be my guest...

My plan is to attack Jesus now, sleep in on Sundays and then repent of my sins on my death bed.

See you in heaven.

[Blake]

The fathers of the modern Scientific movement were predominantly and without question, believers of Jesus Christ. That you all constantly try to downplay the significance of that observation, and even claim otherwise is pretty disingenuous, downright reprehensible, and intellectually dishonest.

There isn't one scientist that has proven the existence of a God.

But that's besides the point of why Christianity on it's own is irrational. i.m.o.

[baseline bum]

My plan is to attack Jesus now, sleep in on Sundays and then repent of my sins on my death bed.

See you in heaven.

Would be a bad idea IMO. If there is a god it seems the worst thing one could do is worship the wrong one. Picking Jesus at the last minute would be a of a roll of the dice when there are so many other equally likely possibilities like Allah, Horus, Zeus, Ganesha, Flying Spaghetti Monster, L.Ron Hubbard, and so on. I think I'm best off by not picking one tbh.

[ElNono]

I guess only those in your camp are en led to sarcasm...

Well, it's not like irrationality isn't part of your repertoire when it comes to this topic...

But if the whole judgement thing is just some inside joke, you got me...

I'm not preaching to anyone here... you all have clearly, decidedly, made your choices regarding Christ's offer of grace... it's rather poignant when you all insult Him directly, and constantly claim "intellectual superiority and reason" as the basis for your choice.. That has been your typical stance in every one of these threads...

I make fun of christ as much as I make fun of santa claus or the lord of the rings. If I see no difference in them, I don't know why I should treat them any different to please you or lord of the rings fans. The whole butthurt about "intellectual superiority" is opinion. You're en led to yours, and I'm en led to mine.

Your observational rebuttal of my stance or my choice of words hence, "doesn't fly" in light of your own tendencies... not when your own at udes clearly indicate you've already made up your mind... but, that didn't stop you from erroneously claiming I lived in fear...

Says who? You?

You don't get to choose what flies or doesn't fly. Neither do I. We present our positions here, and people read them. What flies or not is up to them.

And yes, I do truly think you go out of your way not to piss off your imaginary friend, because you fear what will happen if you do. As a matter of fact, nothing you posted so far indicates otherwise.

[spursncowboys]

Well, it's not like irrationality isn't part of your repertoire when it comes to this topic...

But if the whole judgement thing is just some inside joke, you got me...



I make fun of christ as much as I make fun of santa claus or the lord of the rings. If I see no difference in them, I don't know why I should treat them any different to please you or lord of the rings fans. The whole butthurt about "intellectual superiority" is opinion. You're en led to yours, and I'm en led to mine.



Says who? You?

You don't get to choose what flies or doesn't fly. Neither do I. We present our positions here, and people read them. What flies or not is up to them.

And yes, I do truly think you go out of your way not to piss off your imaginary friend, because you fear what will happen if you do. As a matter of fact, nothing you posted so far indicates otherwise.

I find this completely ridiculous. Regardless of the church, or the viewpoints of christianity that you disagree with, to not appreciate all the good that has come from jesus' teachings. To put the hundreds of millons of people who have been helped by the charities of people who live through the morals taught by jesus, in the same belittling term as lord of the rings. To dismiss the millions of people who live a vow of poverty and spend their entire life helping because it is a "religion" is the most asinine thing I have ever seen from an intelligent person.

[ChumpDumper]

Like I said, these words are piercing...



Throwing Boutons a bone... how nice of you. I guess I should have also called that you would be one of the first among many to do so...

Many to do what?

I made that characterization purely from your description of the Jesus. You make him out to be pretty emo. If you don't want people thinking your savior is a pouty , don't say he's a pouty .

[Blake]

I find this completely ridiculous. Regardless of the church, or the viewpoints of christianity that you disagree with, to not appreciate all the good that has come from jesus' teachings. To put the hundreds of millons of people who have been helped by the charities of people who live through the morals taught by jesus, in the same belittling term as lord of the rings. To dismiss the millions of people who live a vow of poverty and spend their entire life helping because it is a "religion" is the most asinine thing I have ever seen from an intelligent person.

It's easy to dismiss because of the flip side to all of that.

[Blake]

Would be a bad idea IMO. If there is a god it seems the worst thing one could do is worship the wrong one. Picking Jesus at the last minute would be a of a roll of the dice when there are so many other equally likely possibilities like Allah, Horus, Zeus, Ganesha, Flying Spaghetti Monster, L.Ron Hubbard, and so on. I think I'm best off by not picking one tbh.

I figure the best thing would be to pick as many different ones as I can at the last minute....while skipping the ones that give automatic entry to heaven.

[ElNono]

I find this completely ridiculous. Regardless of the church, or the viewpoints of christianity that you disagree with, to not appreciate all the good that has come from jesus' teachings.

But I never said that. I actually said the opposite. Church works for some people in a psychological way, and I'm glad it works for them.

To put the hundreds of millons of people who have been helped by the charities of people who live through the morals taught by jesus, in the same belittling term as lord of the rings.

Now you're insulting lord of the rings fans...

To dismiss the millions of people who live a vow of poverty and spend their entire life helping because it is a "religion" is the most asinine thing I have ever seen from an intelligent person.

Good deeds are done in the name of a lot of things, christ/god/christianity just being one of them. Christianity has also done some horrendous things under the same banner and on multiple power trips.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

stuff

GMFB. Now i am about convinced you've had a Catholic education. Kant, Kierkegaard and Aquinas at least had the intellectual stones to believe in something literal and not some make-of-it-what-you-will-so-that-you-can-feel-better-about-yourself nonsense.

What made some of them great is precisely because they tried to reconcile the empirical and the rational. They were championed moreso by the Church as they lent the Church credibility. Aquinas was a despot about it however but at least he relented a little bit. Woo ing hoo he said that you could look outside of scripture for truth as long as it didn't violate scripture. Thanks, Tom.

Kant did not cite such things and is that much more noble because of it. Anthropology has pretty clearly demonstrated that his notions about constancy in the development of complex ideas was not supported by evidence but it was an honest and worthwhile approach.

Kierkegaard was as bad as Aquinas. He essentially said that one cannot possibly get direct evidence of God through science and hid behind the mysticism bull . God as the Wizard of Oz is lame as . At least he made an attempt to reconcile the issue.

CS Lewis' literary claim to fame is children's stories and a book of grief. Big ing deal. Running around in circles of dogmatic logic does not represent a discovery of the truth.

Next time you make this argument go with DesCartes. Cartesian coordinate system for the win but I fail to see how his insights into geometry were inspired by scripture. His proofs on God were certainly fallacious. Again though, he did not hide behind subjective interpretations.

The behavior of the first and third are direct specific examples of inserting literal scripture as the rationale in inductive reasoning. thats anti-intellectual to the ing core. Your own examples of christian intellectuals illustrate my point. thanks.

All I want to know is the answer to these simple questions: 1) what is Christian dogma (as opposed to Catholic, Anglican, Coptic, Armenian Orthodox, etc... Dogma) and does it necessarily require a literal interpretation of the bible;

Catholics and Orthodox may go beyond this text with their dictates but they all include it.

2) if so, where's that requirement come from; and

Revelations Chapter 3 is whats regularly cited. I am sure there is more. It is after all self serving dogma.

3) why does that interpretation necessarily make all Christian's irrational and Christianity anti-intellectual?

Whoever said that it made the individual irrational in all respects. We are talking about the ins utions that define pluralist activity. The Catholic Church, the Baptists et al. They promote literal interpretation. Its great that Luther allowed a measure of independent thought but that does not mitigate what these ins utions do.

As for the individual, if you want to accept human physiology on the one hand and believe in immaculate conception and resurrection then yes that makes you irrational or at the very least grossly inconsistent in your rationale.

[spursncowboys]

But I never said that. I actually said the opposite. Church works for some people in a psychological way, and I'm glad it works for them.

I'm still not talking about " psychological" in any way.

Now you're insulting lord of the rings fans...

Being closed minded about jesus and christianity. But once again you cannot argue the basic morals and principles have created far more positive. Including it in the same as trekkies, although amusing around high brows would be laughable if it weren't done so often. It's been overdone in this forum to death. But if that is what you want to do,

Good deeds are done in the name of a lot of things, christ/god/christianity just being one of them. Christianity has also done some horrendous things under the same banner and on multiple power trips.

So I guess one bad deed will destroy billions of good deeds?

[ElNono]

I'm still not talking about " psychological" in any way.

Being closed minded about jesus and christianity. But once again you cannot argue the basic morals and principles have created far more positive. Including it in the same as trekkies, although amusing around high brows would be laughable if it weren't done so often. It's been overdone in this forum to death. But if that is what you want to do,

Not sure what "morals and principles" you're talking about, but "morals and principles" in general are a very personal thing that exist beyond christianity or religion. Kinda asinine to state otherwise.

So I guess one bad deed will destroy billions of good deeds?

No, the point is that you can do good and bad under any name. You know, atheists give gifts too...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why are you entertaining made up numbers concerning 'good' deeds versus 'bad' deeds?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oh and to the subjective Christians I submit Paul's 2nd letter to Timothy chapter 3 verse 16

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Now I agree that Paul was full of but I guess you can always go for a figurative interpretation of "is profitable for doctrine... for instruction" as you do most of the rest of his bull .

[vy65]

Posting pictures and going on irrelevant rants does not an argument make. You seem incapable of answering pretty simple questions -- I don't know how posting a picture of the bible answers the question of what you define Christianity as -- and are intent to making sweeping generalizations about Christian belief, dogma, and intellectualism.

And for the record, just because you disagree with certain intellectuals thought doesn't mean that "Christianity tends towards anti-intellectualism." The fact that you disagree and can have a discussion about Kierkegaard, Kant, etc...'s ouvre kinda proves you wrong.