Bachman gets confronted by 8-yr old on sexuality.

[Blake]

Let's face it, the Bible pretty much contradicts itself on every major position, in order to give fuel to both sides.

There's apparently a clause in the new covenant that negates contradictions between old and new testaments

[Phenomanul]

Metaphorical or not, Jesus said it as non-chalant common place .

It truly would have been a perfect opportunity for him to denounce slavery.

But he didn't.

Some logic...

That's such a non-sequitor and you know it... We all talk about many disagreeable topics, and we don't all make parenthetical side comments about our stance on those topics every time we talk about them... especially when they aren't even the central argument or topic of a discussion... In your selection Jesus was clearly talking about Judgment Day, not his take on the existing social structure...

So, by your logic, the next time you talk about pedophiles, drug use, murder, fraud or any other undesirable activity be sure to use disclaimers that you don't endorse those activities otherwise the clear implication is that you do... Or perhaps the next time you talk about Whataburger or McDonald's, the clear implication is that you endorse obesity... That logic is silly. You know it... of course, if it doesn't suit the needs of your argument you will side-step it to death...

God's a ing hypocritical asshole.

Now thanks to Jesus, I'm going to be spending eternity in a gated community with streets of gold next door to this asshole.

Thanks a lot, JC.

And clearly your spiteful venomous comments very much define you...

We've been down this road before.

Part of God's covenant with Abraham was allowing him to have slaves.

Either you're being deliberately dense, or you have no clue what a covenant is...

[Phenomanul]

But he didn't care enough to make, say, a commandment forbidding the purchase or ownership of another person.

Let's face it, the Bible pretty much contradicts itself on every major position, in order to give fuel to both sides.

Foremost commandment according to Jesus:

"Love GOD, with all your heart, soul, and mind."

2nd most important commandment according to Jesus:

"Love thy neighbor as thyself."

Ooooops. There's goes that theory. Try again.

[Blake]

Some logic...

That's such a non-sequitor and you know it...

get to it then.

Where in the New Testament or new convenant is slavery condemned?

And clearly your spiteful venomous comments very much define you...

We've been down this road before.

and your spiteful venomous comments are very Christ-like.

or not.

Either you're being deliberately dense, or you have no clue what a covenant is...

Genesis 17 speaks of God's covenant with Abraham:

Verse 13 KJV: He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must be cir cised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

Either you are being deliberately dense, you are illiterate or you simply haven't read your Bible.

[LnGrrrR]

Foremost commandment according to Jesus:

"Love GOD, with all your heart, soul, and mind."

2nd most important commandment according to Jesus:

"Love thy neighbor as thyself."

Ooooops. There's goes that theory. Try again.

If that's an example of your debating prowess, I'm not very impressed. Tell me phen, was Jesus a lover or a fighter? The Bible has verses to support both. The same goes for slavery.

Trying to compare slavery to indentured servitude doesn't really work, if the children of the "indentured servants" become your property.

[spursncowboys]

great comeback

If slinging around ridiculous one liners fill with generalities, which you do all the time, then I take this to not being facetious.
So christians are all secretly fascists who want to instill christianity into everyone. forced upon them, which goes against all of god's teachings. And soldiers are nothing but murderers and baby killers who would have been trash men and auto repairmen if it werent for the big evil war machine?

[ElNono]

BTW there’s no way of ‘sweetening’ the message of what will come to pass on Judgment Day; GOD will deliver Judgment and punishment to all those who have rejected Him, because His attributes of HOLINESS and JUSTICE demand it..

I thought this was sarcasm...

[Phenomanul]

If that's an example of your debating prowess, I'm not very impressed. Tell me phen, was Jesus a lover or a fighter? The Bible has verses to support both. The same goes for slavery.

First off, who said I was trying to impress YOU...

Trying to compare slavery to indentured servitude doesn't really work, if the children of the "indentured servants" become your property.

I take it you didn't fully read the article nor any of the biblical context surrounding the Hebrew code... Servants were released from slavery during Jubilee every 50 years (no matter the size of the debt). They were also released every 7 years (for various other reasons stipulated in the Scriptures). In other words, an indentured debt couldn't be held against someone or his children forever.

In your example, a credit had to be taken by the parents of the child for a 'master' to take 'possesion' of a servant's child (sounds like payment to me, not just some arbitrary 'abduction')... Imagine if your premise were true. Someone who 'owned' a slave girl could become infinitely rich if he just bred her ad naseum as if she were a farm cow. Clearly, that's not what was going on...

But yeah... go on and keep making blanket statements that "GOD somehow endorses slavery" because He happens to provide provisions that protect the servants from their masters... Especially when His desire (and decree) is that people would actually learn to love other people as themselves... Come now, you can't expect GOD to take fiscal accountability for everyone's bad financial choices...

As for your lover/fighter comment? Ever heard of the concept of pluralism? Can one be both a son and a father? In Jesus case He was both man and GOD. He was both LORD and servant. All powerful and completely submissive. Even in a relativistic context, something can be both small and large. So can one be both lover and fighter? I would say, "yes." Given proper context, that combination is possible.

Look, feel free to believe what you want. All I'm saying is that the justification for your disbelief in GOD can't be based on some some flimsy micharacterization of GOD's nature or on your limited understanding thereof. That's a philosophical cop-out.

[Phenomanul]

I thought this was sarcasm...

Clearly, the "get your kicks in" portion of that comment was...

And no...

I'm still not living in fear...

[clambake]

how's your daddy, phen?

[Blake]

I take it you didn't fully read the article nor any of the biblical context surrounding the Hebrew code... Servants were released from slavery during Jubilee every 50 years (no matter the size of the debt). They were also released every 7 years (for various other reasons stipulated in the Scriptures). In other words, an indentured debt couldn't be held against someone or his children forever.

The Holiness Code in Leviticus clearly states that non-Hebrew slaves could be slaves forever:

Leviticus 25:44-46
King James Version (KJV)


44Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

45Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

46And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

old covenant for the heathen sucks

btw, you're an idiot

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I've got an honest question. If its true that according to Christian belief, any non believer is doomed to ? which means that more than half the population of this world is doomed, correct?

How exactly does one reconcile the notion of an all benevolent God who makes it so that more than half of his children enter his world already doomed through no fault of their own other than having been born into the wrong religion?

Someone explain that one to me plz

[clambake]

I've got an honest question. If its true that according to Christian belief, any non believer is doomed to ? which means that more than half the population of this world is doomed, correct?

How exactly does one reconcile the notion of an all benevolent God who makes it so that more than half of his children enter his world already doomed through no fault of their own other than having been born into the wrong religion?

Someone explain that one to me plz

"though shalt worship no other god"

he's covering his bases.

[Blake]

I've got an honest question. If its true that according to Christian belief, any non believer is doomed to ? which means that more than half the population of this world is doomed, correct?

How exactly does one reconcile the notion of an all benevolent God who makes it so that more than half of his children enter his world already doomed through no fault of their own other than having been born into the wrong religion?

Someone explain that one to me plz

Do orthodox Jews go to Heaven?

[Phenomanul]

get to it then.

Where in the New Testament or new convenant is slavery condemned?

Where GOD commands us "to love thy neighbor's as thyself". Where Jesus tells us that he was sent to earth "to free mankind from their bondage, and to redeem us." Or where Jesus says, GOD "has sent Me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor". Where 1 Timothy 1:10 lists slave traders with murders, adulterers, perverts, liars and other evil people (sounds rather condemning to me). Where Paul writes in Colossians 3:11 that in the Church "there is neither Greek nor Jew, cir cised nor uncir cised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all" (sounds like equality)...

I don't know, take your pick.

and your spiteful venomous comments are very Christ-like.

or not.

I've never said I hated you... or that I wished you were dead... You on the other hand have lashed out with that type of comment... But go ahead... run with this strawman.

Oh and just so that we're clear on what I was referencing as "spiteful and venomous"...

God's a ing hypocritical asshole.

Now thanks to Jesus, I'm going to be spending eternity in a gated community with streets of gold next door to this asshole.

Thanks a lot, JC.

I think that would qualify... you're pretty bitter dude. You don't have to curse everyone out.

Genesis 17 speaks of God's covenant with Abraham:

Either you are being deliberately dense, you are illiterate or you simply haven't read your Bible.

So GOD told Abraham that his servants had to get cir cised along with all others in his household? OK? You're still failing to connect how that passage(considering there is no word for "slave" in Hebrew) relates to modern-day slavery. Ultimately, that is where our disagreement falls.

[Phenomanul]

The Holiness Code in Leviticus clearly states that non-Hebrew slaves could be slaves forever:

old covenant for the heathen sucks

btw, you're an idiot

Mistranslation. Show me the word "forever" in Hebrew, and I'll show you that this is not the word that was written in that passage.

Sorry, you've been misled.

[Blake]

Where GOD commands us "to love thy neighbor's as thyself". Where Jesus tells us that he was sent to earth "to free mankind from their bondage, and to redeem us." Or where Jesus says, GOD "has sent Me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor". Where 1 Timothy 1:10 lists slave traders with murders, adulterers, perverts, liars and other evil people (sounds rather condemning to me). Where Paul writes in Colossians 3:11 that in the Church "there is neither Greek nor Jew, cir cised nor uncir cised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all" (sounds like equality)...

nothing in this paragraph denounces slavery.

The literal translation of 1 Timothy 1:10 is not "slave traders".

You've been misled.

I've never said I hated you... or that I wished you were dead... You on the other hand have lashed out with that type of comment... But go ahead... run with this strawman.

Oh and just so that we're clear on what I was referencing as "spiteful and venomous"...

I never said I hated God or wished he were dead. I'm not even sure he's alive or real.

I'm also not sure why you think I'm directing hate towards anyone, especially yourself.

You are very clearly the one running with straw.

I think that would qualify... you're pretty bitter dude. You don't have to curse everyone out.

straw marathon

So GOD told Abraham that his servants had to get cir cised along with all others in his household? OK? You're still failing to connect how that passage(considering there is no word for "slave" in Hebrew) relates to modern-day slavery. Ultimately, that is where our disagreement falls.

I bolded the part that says "bought with money".

I'm not sure you understand what the definition of slavery is.

[Blake]

Mistranslation. Show me the word "forever" in Hebrew, and I'll show you that this is not the word that was written in that passage.

Sorry, you've been misled.

Leviticus 25:44-46
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


44`And thy man-servant and thy handmaid whom thou hast [are] of the nations who [are] round about you; of them ye buy man-servant and handmaid,

45and also of the sons of the settlers who are sojourning with you, of them ye buy, and of their families who [are] with you, which they have begotten in your land, and they have been to you for a possession;

46and ye have taken them for inheritance to your sons after you, to occupy [for] a possession; to the age ye lay service upon them, but upon your brethren, the sons of Israel, one with another, thou dost not rule over him with rigour.

This is the literal translation. I think "to the age" in this context clearly implies that it means 'forever'. Feel free to explain what you think it means.

[Blake]

Sorry, you've been misled.

ftr, I also find it hilarious that you are telling me that I've been misled by King James...

which in turn means that ordained ministers have been misleading church goers for hundreds of years....

[Phenomanul]

ftr, I also find it hilarious that you are telling me that I've been misled by King James...

which in turn means that ordained ministers have been misleading church goers for hundreds of years....

I'll address your other posts tomorrow... I'll be on my way to Dallas and typing responses through the mobile version of the website sucks...

But I'll comment on this post, before I head out of the house.

I was suggesting you were being misled by whatever website filled your mind with the notion that GOD endorses the brutality of slavery or that He doesn't desire that we be free individuals... I simply don't buy the assertion that you somehow catalogued each and every Biblical "servanthood" reference on your own. Like I said, you were misled by the atheistic agenda of those websites you frequent... I saw all of these same out-of-context references in that website RG posted awhile back concerning amputees...

As for the implications of the New Covenant: Jesus Himself said that "He makes all things new" that He would establish a Kingdom of Righteousness and harmony and furthermore that He came to "liberate the captives free"... that somehow you don't see this statement as a condemnation on the oppression of slavery is beyond me... You have chosen to be conveniently blind only to suit the needs of your argument...

Also 1 Timothy 1:10 references "slave traders" as:

andrapodistais
ἀνδραποδισταῖς
men-stealers,
kidnappers of free men
enslavers
slave dealers

Sounds like modern slavery to me... and listed among the other evil acts... i.e. condemned by the New Covenant through Christ.

The King James Bible as monumental accomplishment as it was is not free of translation errors... the few that were incurred (less than 40 or so), however, have been corrected with the aid of older source codex scrolls and the Dead Sea Scrolls Septuagint. NONE of them, however, detract from the central message because, the Bible as a whole clearly establishes the purpose of Christ's redemptive act and expounds on GOD's desire that "all mankind be saved, and that none should perish".

[ElNono]

Clearly, the "get your kicks in" portion of that comment was...

Disagree about "clearly". Disappointed that the whole thing wasn't in jest, tbh.

[ChumpDumper]

As for the implications of the New Covenant: Jesus Himself said that "He makes all things new" that He would establish a Kingdom of Righteousness and harmony and furthermore that He came to "liberate the captives free"

Why didn't he do that the first time around?

Lazy or just a tease?

[LnGrrrR]

I take it you didn't fully read the article nor any of the biblical context surrounding the Hebrew code... Servants were released from slavery during Jubilee every 50 years (no matter the size of the debt). They were also released every 7 years (for various other reasons stipulated in the Scriptures). In other words, an indentured debt couldn't be held against someone or his children forever.

In your example, a credit had to be taken by the parents of the child for a 'master' to take 'possesion' of a servant's child (sounds like payment to me, not just some arbitrary 'abduction')... Imagine if your premise were true. Someone who 'owned' a slave girl could become infinitely rich if he just bred her ad naseum as if she were a farm cow. Clearly, that's not what was going on...

Interesting that you're cool with someone owning the child of an indentured servant for ANY amount of time. But I guess just owning a child for a few years isn't that bad, right?

But yeah... go on and keep making blanket statements that "GOD somehow endorses slavery" because He happens to provide provisions that protect the servants from their masters... Especially when His desire (and decree) is that people would actually learn to love other people as themselves... Come now, you can't expect GOD to take fiscal accountability for everyone's bad financial choices...

So God supports responsible slave-owning then, correct?

As for your lover/fighter comment? Ever heard of the concept of pluralism? Can one be both a son and a father? In Jesus case He was both man and GOD. He was both LORD and servant. All powerful and completely submissive. Even in a relativistic context, something can be both small and large. So can one be both lover and fighter? I would say, "yes." Given proper context, that combination is possible.

Thank you for agreeing with my point. In multiple cases of the Bible, arguments can be made for both sides of a point, and the Bible can provide ammunition for both sides from various passages.

Look, feel free to believe what you want. All I'm saying is that the justification for your disbelief in GOD can't be based on some some flimsy micharacterization of GOD's nature or on your limited understanding thereof. That's a philosophical cop-out.

I don't need a "justification" for my disbelief, anymore than you need a "justification" for your disbelief in Zeus, or Allah, or Odin. And if you think that my lack of belief hinders on whether or not God supported slavery, or didn't, then you're way off the mark.

[LnGrrrR]

I've got an honest question. If its true that according to Christian belief, any non believer is doomed to ? which means that more than half the population of this world is doomed, correct?

How exactly does one reconcile the notion of an all benevolent God who makes it so that more than half of his children enter his world already doomed through no fault of their own other than having been born into the wrong religion?

Someone explain that one to me plz

Free Will is usually the catch-all answer.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So christians are all secretly fascists who want to instill christianity into everyone. forced upon them, which goes against all of god's teachings. And soldiers are nothing but murderers and baby killers who would have been trash men and auto repairmen if it werent for the big evil war machine?

Glad to see you're catching on