Reply With Quote
“A sane person to an insane society must appear insane.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, Welcome to the Monkey House
For example, Ron Paul stated "They attacked us because we have been over there bombing them for 10 years." Paul also stated that "If we think we can do that (occupy foreign lands) and not have retaliation, we are kidding ourselves." And Paul stated "They're terrorists because we're occupiers."
“A sane person to an insane society must appear insane.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, Welcome to the Monkey House
Yup. If we wanna stop the terrorism, then we need to stop the empire building. Bring all the troops home and stop exerting our power over every country we chose, and there wouldn't be a bunch of Muslims angry with us.
Gringrich selling his soul to Israel
as soon as he becomes president he will
- make Michael Bolton Sec of State
- move US Embasy to Jerusalem
- Sabotage Iran on a daily basis
If we pulled all of our troops out of the middle East but continued to support Israel......would it stop then?
Is the solution for dealing with terrorism complete isolationism?
Islamist terrorism against the West pre-dates Paul's theory.
That's a swing and a miss.
he was specifically referring about Al Quaida there
wanna try again?
Al Qaeda is a product of radical Islam and, just a continuation of a ideology that began long before Osama bin Laden landed on the scene.
Trace Zawahiri's roots if you want to understand from where their murderous desires come.
it comes as Dr. Paul has said, from their country being occupied and bombed by USA/Israel coalition.
Not to mention the sales of weapons and support of tyrants on those same countries. I agree it goes way back, even to the British Empire.
what the US did is just continue the British style of colonialism in middle east. Keep the ppl down so they can take advantage of the strategic and resources of the area. that is the root and Dr. Paul is correct.
When did the U.S. and Israel bomb or occupy Saudi Arabia?
Our flag doesn't fly over any of those countries.
You and and Mr. Paul are seriously misinformed.
Founded in 1928 by the Egyptian schoolteacher/activist Hasan al-Banna (a devout admirer of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis), the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) -- a Sunni en y -- is one of the oldest, largest and most influential Islamist organizations in the world. While Egypt historically has been the center of the Brotherhood’s operations, the group today is active in more than 70 countries (some estimates range as high as 100+). Islam expert Robert Spencer has called MB "the parent organization of Hamas and al Qaeda." In 2003, Richard Clarke – the chief counterterrorism advisor on the U.S. National Security Council during both the Bill Clinton and George W. Bush administrations – told a Senate committee that Hamas, al Qaeda, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad were all "descendants of the membership and ideology of the Muslim Brothers."
MB was established in accordance with al-Banna’s proclamation that Islam should be “given hegemony over all matters of life.” Toward that end, the Brotherhood seeks to establish an Islamic caliphate, or kingdom -- first spanning all of the present-day Muslim world, and eventually the entire globe. The organization further aspires to dismantle all non-Islamic governments wherever they currently exist, and to make Islamic Law (Shari’a) the sole basis of jurisprudence everywhere on earth. This purpose is encapsulated in the Brotherhood’s militant credo: “God is our objective, the Koran is our Cons ution, the Prophet is our leader, struggle [jihad] is our way, and death for the sake of God is the highest of our aspirations.”
Consistent with the foregoing credo, MB since its founding has supported the use of armed struggle, or jihad, against non-Muslim “infidels.” As al-Banna himself wrote: "Jihad is an obligation from Allah on every Muslim and cannot be ignored nor evaded." Added al-Banna: "It is the nature of Islam to dominate, not to be dominated, to impose its law on all nations and to extend its power to the entire planet."
In the 1930s, the Brotherhood was largely an underground organization. Paramilitary in nature, it stockpiled weapons and operated clandestine camps that provided instruction in military and terrorist tactics. Partly due to its call for a return to traditionalist Islamic values, and partly because of the unpopularity of the Egyptian monarchy, MB's membership swelled throughout the Thirties and early Forties. By 1944, the Brotherhood in Egypt consisted of some 1,500 branches and as many as a half-million members. As of 1948, its membership may have exceeded 2 million. During the Forties, the late PLO chairman Yasser Arafat fought alongside MB.
According to scholar Martin Kramer, the Muslim Brotherhood of that period had "a double iden y":
"On one level, they operated openly, as a membership organization of social and political awakening. Banna preached moral revival, and the Muslim Brethren engaged in good works. On another level, however, the Muslim Brethren created a ‘secret apparatus’ that acquired weapons and trained adepts in their use. Some of its guns were deployed against the Zionists in Palestine in 1948, but the Muslim Brethren also resorted to violence in Egypt. They began to enforce their own moral teachings by intimidation, and they initiated attacks against Egypt’s Jews."
In December 1948, a Brotherhood member assassinated Egyptian prime minister Mahmud Fahmi Nuqrashi. Egypt's government retaliated by banishing MB from the country. Then, in February 1949, Hasan al-Banna was killed by government agents in Cairo. A harsh, official crackdown was initiated against the Brotherhood; thousands of its members were imprisoned and many others were confined to detention camps.
With Gamal Abdel Nasser’s revolutionary seizure of power in Egypt (ending the monarchy of King Farouk) in 1952, MB split into two factions. One, led by Hasan al-Hudaybi, favored working with Nasser's secular government in an effort to gradually move the country toward Islamic fundamentalism. A more radical faction, led by the writer and ideologue Sayyid Qutb (1909-1966), advocated armed revolution against corrupt (i.e., non-Islamist) regimes in the Middle East and, more broadly, against unbelievers in Western nations.
Qutb -- whose wordview distinguished sharply between “the Party of Allah and the Party of Satan,” -- declared that Egyptian society under the secular Nasser was contrary to authentic Islam. Asserting that the Prophet Mohammad himself would have rejected such a government, Qutb claimed that Muslims had both a right and an obligation to resist it. Qutb's writings -- which challenged the views of mainstream Sunni theologians, who extolled the Islamic tradition of deference to the state and ruler -- are now cited by many scholars as some of the first formulations of political Islam.
A corollary of Qutb’s fundamentalist critique of Egyptian society was his abiding contempt for the Western, especially the United States, which he regarded as spiritually vacant, decadent, idolatrous and fundamentally hostile to Islamic piety.
After MB member Abdul Munim Abdul Rauf tried to assassinate President Nasser in October 1954, the Brotherhood, which had recently received permission to resume its operations in Egypt, was outlawed once again. Nasser dissolved the organization, burned down its headquarters, arrested approximately 15,000 of its members, and executed some others—most famously Qutb. Many of the remaining members fled the country. Scholar Raymond Ibrahim speculates as to why Nasser took such extreme measures against the Brotherhood:
"Nasser, a pious Muslim, was most likely intimately, if not instinctively, aware of what the Brotherhood was—and still is: he was aware that it is impossible for Muslim organizations committed to theocratic rule to negotiate or share power, much less be trustworthy allies. In short, Nasser was aware that, once the opportunity presented itself, the Brotherhood would do everything in its power to take over: unlike secular parties concerned with the temporal, it has a divine mandate -- a totalitarian vision -- to subdue society to Sharia.
"Some people even maintain that Nasser himself staged the assassination attempt as a pretext to eliminate the Brotherhood. – an interpretation that only further supports the theory that Nasser knew he had to dismantle the Islamists, and was willing to play dirty to do so. Nasser's approach, then, is the realpolitik approach of one who knows that you must suppress those who would suppress you—once cir stances permit -- a long-term approach that takes the big picture into account, unlike many Western politicians who are only looking for a quick fix for the duration of their term."
With Nasser's action, MB receded as a political force in Egypt, where it has been banned ever since. Notwithstanding the ban, the Egyptian government has permitted the Brotherhood to operate within limits since the 1970s, keeping the organization in check with frequent arrests and crackdowns.
MB re-emerged somewhat under Anwar Sadat, a sympathizer of the group, when he became Egypt's president in 1970. Taking advantage of the Brotherhood’s militant aversion to secularism, Sadat sponsored the organization against his communist and socialist political opposition. Later, however, MB joined the political Left in opposing Sadat’s peace treaty with Israel, believing the normalization of relations with the Jewish State to be a betrayal of Islam.
Sadat was assassinated in October 1981, after a fatwa (religious edict) calling for his death had been issued by Omar Abdel-Rahman, the Islamic Group leader who despised Sadat for having struck a bargain with Israel. The assassination was planned jointly by MB and the Islamic Group.
In 1987, MB allied itself with the Labor Party and the socialist-liberal al-Ahrar Party to form the "Islamic Alliance," a coalition that won 65 seats in Egypt's parliamentary elections.
In 1995, Mustafa Mashhur, who would head MB in Egypt from 1996-2002, published Jihad Is the Way, the last of a five-volume work led The Laws of Da’wa. Jihad Is the Way detailed MB's determination to advance Islam's global conquest, to reestablish an Islamic Caliphate, and to infuse all Muslims with a sense of duty to wage jihad against Israel. Masshur said that MB differed from al Qaeda only in its tactics, not in its goals. Among his book's quotes were the following:
“The Islamic ummah [the supranational community of Muslims] can regain its power and be liberated and assume its rightful position which was intended by Allah, as the most exalted nation among men, as the leaders of humanity.”
“Know your status [as Muslims], and believe firmly that you are the masters of the world, even if your enemies desire your degradation.”
“One should know that it is not necessary that the Muslims repel every attack or damage caused by the enemies of Allah immediately, but [only] when ability and the cir stances are fit to it.” (This passage counseled Muslims to wage jihad only when conditiomns were ripe, and not sooner.)
“It should be known that jihad and preparation towards jihad are not only for the purpose of fending off assaults and attacks of Allah’s enemies from Muslims, but are also for the purpose of realizing the great task of establishing an Islamic state and strengthening the religion and spreading it around the world.”
“Jihad for Allah is not limited to the specific region of the Islamic countries, since the Muslim homeland is one and is not divided, and the banner of Jihad has already been raised in some of its parts, and shall continue to be raised, with the help of Allah, until every inch of the land of Islam will be liberated, and the State of Islam established.”
“Honorable brothers have achieved shahada [martyrdom] on the soil of beloved Palestine, during the years ’47 and ’48, in their jihad against the criminal, thieving, gangs of Zion.”
In more recent years, the Brotherhood has attempted to forge a reputation as a moderate and reformist Islamic group that has renounced its violent past, in favor of participation in local and national politics. Even in Egypt, where MB is officially banned, the organization runs candidates as “independents” in that country's parliamentary elections, under the slogan “Islam is the Solution.”
Some Islamist groups have condemned such engagement in secular politics as a heretical abandonment of jihad's mandates. In practice, however, MB's political involvement has not replaced, but rather has supplemented, its pursuit of jihad-by-the-sword.
Indeed, numerous statements by MB leaders offer compelling evidence of the group's undiminished militancy. For example, Ali Sadreddine Bayanouni, head of the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood, has repeatedly pledged his support for the terrorism of Hamas and Hezbollah. Muhammad Mahdi Othman Akef, who served as MB's Supreme Guide from 2004-2009, expressed his support for suicide bombings in Israel and Iraq (during the Iraq War), "in order to expel the Zionists and the Americans."
Many other Brotherhood luminaries have likewise justified jihadist terrorism against Israel and the United States. MB spiritual leader Yusuf al-Qaradawi has written: "There is no dialogue between them [the Jews] and us, other than in one language -- the language of the sword and force." Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the architect of 9/11, was a member of the Brotherhood. Abdullah Azzam, a Palestinian MB preacher, was a mentor to al Qaeda kingpin Osama bin Laden. And bin Laden's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, was a Brotherhood member as a young man, though he later broke with the group because of its willingness to participate in political elections. In 2006, Rajab Hilal Hamida, a Muslim Brotherhood member serving in Egypt's parliament, said:
"From my point of view, bin Ladin, al-Zawahiri and [the late radical Islamist] al-Zarqawi are not terrorists in the sense accepted by some. I support all their activities, since they are a thorn in the side of the Americans and the Zionists."
Embracing Hasan al-Banna’s belief that Islam is destined to eventually dominate all the world, MB today is global in its reach, wielding influence in almost every country with a Muslim population. Moreover, it maintains political parties in many Middle-Eastern and African countries, including Jordan, Bahrain, Tunisia, Algeria, Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, and even Israel. Not only does the Brotherhood exist in Israel proper, but its Palestinian chapter created the terrorist organization Hamas, through which MB has supported terrorism against Israel ever since. Article II of the Hamas charter explicitly identifies Hamas as "one of the wings of Moslem Brotherhood in Palestine." In January 2006 Hamas defeated the rival Fatah party to win the Palestinian legislative elections, thereby becoming the first branch of MB to control an official government.
Outside of the Middle East, MB exercises a strong influence in Muslim communities throughout Europe. Among the more prominent Brotherhood organizations in the region are: the Forum of European Muslim Youth and Student Organizations, the Muslim Association of Britain, the European Council for Fatwa and Research, the Islamische Gemeinschaft Deutschland (IGD), and the Union des Organisations Islamiques de France (UOIF).
The Muslim Brotherhood in the United States:
MB also has expanded its operations to the United States. The first American chapter of the Brotherhood was formed in the early 1960s after hundreds of young Muslims came to the U.S. to study, particularly at large Midwestern universities such as Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan. Some of these students had been MB members in their homelands and now wanted to spread the group's ideology in America. MB's early activities in the U.S. centered around the Muslim Students Association of the U.S. and Canada, founded in 1963.
In the 1970s, the United States experienced a new influx of Muslim Brothers from the Middle East. At that time, MB launched a five-year plan that sought to make the period of 1975-1980 "an era of dedication for general activism." This phase was characterized by a growing emphasis on secrecy, as well as the development of a long-term strategy.
The Brotherhood initiated a second five-year plan for 1981-1985, with a focus on using Da'wa (proselytization) to increase MB's influence in organizations that were evolving among young Muslim immigrants to America.
In 1982, MB adopted a 14-page strategic plan known as "The Global Project for Palestine," which outlined a 12-point strategy to “establish an Islamic government on earth.” Departing from standard Islamist rhetoric (i.e., “Death to America! Death to Israel!”), this Project represented a flexible, multi-phased, long-term plan for a “cultural invasion” of the West. Calling for the utilization of multiple tactics -- including immigration, infiltration, surveillance, propaganda, protest, deception, political legitimacy, and outright terrorism -- the Project has served, since its drafting, as the Muslim Brotherhood “master plan.” For details about this Project, click here, here, and here.
In May 1991, MB issued to its ideological allies an explanatory memorandum on "the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America." Asserting that the Brotherhood's mission was to establish "an effective and ... stable Islamic Movement" on the continent, this do ent outlined a "Civilization-Jihadist Process" for achieving that objective. It stated that Muslims "must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands ... so that ... God's religion [Islam] is made victorious over all other religions." Through stealth jihad, the Brotherhood would seek to impose Islamic values and customs on the West in piecemeal fashion -- gradually, incrementally gaining ever-greater influence over the culture. The memorandum listed some 29 likeminded "organizations of our friends" which sought to realize the same goal. These included:
- Islamic Society of North America (ISNA)
- ISNA Fiqh Committee (now known as the Fiqh Council of North America)
- ISNA Political Awareness Committee
- Muslim Youth of North America
- Muslim Students Association of the U.S. and Canada
- Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers
- Islamic Medical Association (of North America)
- Islamic Teaching Center
- Malaysian Islamic Study Group
- Foundation for International Development
- North American Islamic Trust
- Islamic Centers Division
- American Trust Publications
- Audio-Visual Center
- Islamic Book Service
- Islamic Circle of North America
- Muslim Arab Youth Association
- Islamic Association for Palestine
- United Association for Studies and Research
- International Ins ute of Islamic Thought
- Muslim Communities Association
- Association of Muslim Social Scientists (of North America)
- Islamic Housing Cooperative
- Muslim Businessmen Association
- Islamic Education Department
- Occupied Land Fund (later known as the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development)
- Mercy International Association
- Baitul Mal Inc.
- Islamic Information Center (of America)
At a 1995 conference (hosted by the Muslim Arab Youth Association) in Toledo, Ohio, MB spiritual leader Yusuf al-Qaradawi vowed that Islam would "conquer Europe [and] America -- not through sword but through Da’wa [proselytizing]." He also urged Muslims to "continue to fight the Jews" and "kill them."
Recent Developments:
In January 2010, Muhammad Badi [a.k.a. Muhammad Badie] was named as MB's new Supreme Guide. Badi has described the U.S. as an infidel nation that “does not champion moral and human values and cannot lead humanity.” He has characterized America and Israel as “the Muslim’s real enemies," asserting that "[w]aging jihad against both of these infidels is a commandment of Allah that cannot be disregarded.” And he maintains that the “change that the [Muslim] nation seeks can only be attained through jihad and sacrifice and by raising a jihadi generation that pursues death just as the enemies pursue life.”
In January 2011, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's hold on power was threatened by massive swarms of protesters rioting in the streets of Cairo and Alexandria to express their opposition to his government. There was much speculation that the Muslim Brotherhood stood a strong chance of filling the power vacuum that Mubarak would leave behind if he were to step down from the presidency. In a television interview, MB deputy leader Rashad al-Bayoumi declared:
"After President Mubarak steps down and a provisional government is formed, there is a need to dissolve the [1979] peace treaty with Israel."
In early February, Muhammad Ghannem, a leading member of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, told the Iranian news network Al-Alam that “the people [of Egypt] should be prepared for war against Israel,” emphasizing that “the Egyptian people are prepared for anything to get rid of this regime.” That objective was entirely consistent with former MB Supreme Guide Muhammad Mahdi Othman Akef's 2007 assertion that his organization had never recognized Israel and never would: “Our lexicon does not include anything called 'Israel.' The [only thing] we acknowledge is the existence of Zionist gangs that have occupied Arab lands and deported the residents. If they want to live among us, it will have to be as [residents of] Palestine.”
In a June 11, 2011 article on the website of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, veteran MB member Sheikh Ahmad Gad argued that the implementation of shari'a in Egypt must be achieved by "gradual action, preparing the [people's] souls and setting an example, so that faith will enter their hearts ... step by step." This approach was reminiscent of what had been outlined in the Brotherhhod's 1991 "explanatory memorandum."
Because Alquaida is an All Saudi organization
It doesn't have to. Are you denying USA continued British style colonialism? talk about misinformedOur flag doesn't fly over any of those countries.
You and and Mr. Paul are seriously misinformed.
Al Queda stems directly from foreign occupations in middle east lands. I doubt you've ever given one once of effort into actually tracing .
just one example of US "non-intervention"
Ron Paul Explains How Iraq Was Made into an Enemy in Order to “Redesign the Middle East”
Transcript
Ron Paul: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, how did the 20-year war get started? It had been long assumed that the United States government, shortly before Iraq invaded Kuwait in August of 1990, gave Saddam Hussein a green light to attack. A State Department cable recently published by Wikileaks confirmed that US Ambassador April Glaspie did indeed have a conversation with Saddam Hussein one week prior to Iraq’s August 1st, 1990 invasion of Kuwait. Amazingly, the released cable was en led, “Saddam’s Message of Friendship to President Bush.” In it, Ambassador Glaspie affirmed to Saddam that the President—this is in quotes—“the President had instructed her to broaden and deepen our relations with Iraq”—close quote. As Saddam Hussein outlined Iraq’s ongoing border dispute with Kuwait, Ambassador Glaspie was quite clear that—quote—“We took no position on these Arab affairs”—close quote. There would have been no reason for Saddam Hussein not to take this assurance at face value. The US was quite supportive of his invasion and war of aggression against Iran in the 1980s. With this approval from the U.S. Government, it wasn’t surprising that the invasion occurred. The shock and surprise was how quickly the tables were turned, and our ‘friend,’ Saddam Hussein, all of a sudden became Hitler personified.
we in created Al Queda because we wanted to make the Soviets look bad in Afghanistan.
For the Nnth time, OBL said he attacked USA because US (oily) military boots were occupying/defiling the sacred lands of Saudi Arabia.
I guarantee you if MX were drone-killing MX drug lords in USA and collateral-damaging 1000s of Human-Americans, there would 1000s of US terrorists going after MX.
"They hate us because ..."
we invade, occupy, deface their countries for oil and to murder their citizens.
What lands were we occupying when Muslim extremists blew up the Marine Barracks in Lebanon?
What lands were we occupying when Al Qaeda bombed the U. S. Embassies in Africa?
are you serious?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Be...rracks_bombing
Muslim feelings against the American presence were "exacerbated when missiles lobbed by the U.S. Sixth Fleet hit innocent by-standers in the Druze-dominated Shuf mountains."
Col. Timothy J. Geraghty, the commander of the Marines in Beirut during the incident, has said that "the Marine and the French headquarters were targeted primarily because of who we were and what we represented;"
It is noteworthy that the United States provided direct naval gunfire support -- which I strongly opposed for a week -- to the Lebanese Army at a mountain village called Suq-al-Garb on September 19 and that the French conducted an air strike on September 23 in the Bekaa Valley. American support removed any lingering doubts of our neutrality, and I stated to my staff at the time that we were going to pay in blood for this decision.
Maintaining a barracks in a country, at the invitation and authorization of the legitimate government, isn't occupation.
Are you suggesting we still occupy Germany?
Now, if you want to argue they're pissed about Western influence on their culture; you'd have a point but, again, that pre-dates Paul's idiotic assertion by about 70 years.
Muslim feelings against the American presence were "exacerbated when missiles lobbed by the U.S. Sixth Fleet hit innocent by-standers in the Druze-dominated Shuf mountains."
Col. Timothy J. Geraghty, the commander of the Marines in Beirut during the incident, has said that "the Marine and the French headquarters were targeted primarily because of who we were and what we represented;"
It is noteworthy that the United States provided direct naval gunfire support -- which I strongly opposed for a week -- to the Lebanese Army at a mountain village called Suq-al-Garb on September 19 and that the French conducted an air strike on September 23 in the Bekaa Valley. American support removed any lingering doubts of our neutrality, and I stated to my staff at the time that we were going to pay in blood for this decision.
Do we shoot misiles and provide naval support in Germany too?
If the Marines were invited, why did that chicken faux macho con man St Ronnie pull them out after the bombing?
We actively put down nazi-sympathizing rebellions for several years after WWII -- at the request and with the assistance of the then legitimate government of Germany. Yes, in affect, our presence was no different.
LOL ya, we were minding our own business in Lebanon
No less than we were in Germany, post WWII.LOL ya, we were minding our own business in Lebanon
They've been attacking us before president Clinton used up our supply of older cruise missiles on them.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
