The Double-Edged Sword of Corporate Knowledge

[Mel_13]

I sincerely doubt they could get much for Manu. Parker clearly has the best trade value. I'm not suggesting that they pull the trigger on that trade now. However, an immediate upgrade at the PF/C position is desparately needed. If the FO cannot upgrade this position prior to the start of the season, with the limited assets they have, then I believe you have to look at perhaps moving TP by the trade deadline. Otherwise, a mediocre season awaits, along with a long an eminent rebuilding process at season's end. Trading TP in March will only help jumpstart such a rebuilding effort.

I agree with this. Tony is their best asset.

[timvp]

i also worry some if after this season will duncan chase one last ring?!?

That's a sub-plot that I think isn't being mentioned enough. Duncan likes the Spurs and San Antonio.

But Duncan loves winning.

Wow, you're coming around to my side LJ?

I fully agree; either do something major for the defense or blow it up right now. There can be no middle ground.

Yeah, the Spurs are making me creep toward the rebuild-now way of thinking.

Previously, my stance was that as long as you have the Big Three and surround them with somewhat adequate talent, it'd be a mistake to throw that away and rebuild. It's rare that a small market franchise can put together a trio as talented as TD, Manu and TP -- even at this stage of their careers. To blow up the Big Three when there is still a chance at a championship, even if we are talking about a less than 10% chance, would be a mistake and it would be underestimating just how difficult it is for a San Antonio franchise to get as close as they are.

But if the front office and ownership group aren't going to do enough to even surround the Big Three with adequate talent, it doesn't make sense to just go through the motions. Even though the franchise can still make money by selling memories, it's unfair to the Big Three and it makes it more difficult to rebuild going forward.

Don't get me wrong, I'll still enjoy the out of watching the Big Three this year no matter what but I can't support the front office's motives since it would basically just be a money grab.

[jjktkk]

Most of us fans know what the Spurs need, but like others have mentioned, tp is the only trade piece that could give the team that interior piece to pair alongside Duncan.

[Gregzilla]

That's a sub-plot that I think isn't being mentioned enough. Duncan likes the Spurs and San Antonio.

But Duncan loves winning.



Yeah, the Spurs are making me creep toward the rebuild-now way of thinking.

Previously, my stance was that as long as you have the Big Three and surround them with somewhat adequate talent, it'd be a mistake to throw that away and rebuild. It's rare that a small market franchise can put together a trio as talented as TD, Manu and TP -- even at this stage of their careers. To blow up the Big Three when there is still a chance at a championship, even if we are talking about a less than 10% chance, would be a mistake and it would be underestimating just how difficult it is for a San Antonio franchise to get as close as they are.

But if the front office and ownership group aren't going to do enough to even surround the Big Three with adequate talent, it doesn't make sense to just go through the motions. Even though the franchise can still make money by selling memories, it's unfair to the Big Three and it makes it more difficult to rebuild going forward.

Don't get me wrong, I'll still enjoy the out of watching the Big Three this year no matter what but I can't support the front office's motives since it would basically just be a money grab.

Good post but you do know that no one outside of San Antonio calls them the Big 3 anymore right?? Actually i think only people on spurstalk.com call them the Big 3 still.....them and Sean Elliott

[timvp]

Why? I'd sure as rather watch Timmy and Manu not win a ring, than watch a bunch of people I don't care about not win a ring.

That's what the mindset the franchise is banking on. They know Spurs fans will come watch as long as TD and Manu are playing.

But to screw over the Big Three just to sell tickets is unfair to the trio and doesn't make sense rebuilding wise. It's a loss all the way around other than for nostalgia-sake and Holt's pockets. That shouldn't be enough.

The OP is way too pessimistic.

Yes, they need to improve inside but there is no need to blow this team up.

It can't be that pessimistic when I agree that blowing up the team isn't necessary. I only advocate blowing up the team if the front office is just going to go forward as-is.

[lefty]

Duncan to Lakers

Do it RC

[Mel_13]

That's a sub-plot that I think isn't being mentioned enough. Duncan likes the Spurs and San Antonio.

But Duncan loves winning.

If Tim wants to chase a le somewhere else, I'd wish him the best of luck. If he wants out before his contract is up, the Spurs should accommodate him.

[DesignatedT]

I just refuse to think the Spurs are really sold on standing pat this season. Trading Hill for Kawhi doesn't really help the "win now" notion and if I remember correctly at the end of last season, RC sounded like he knew moves had to be made.

Saying that, If indeed the guys the Spurs were targeting in FA are already gone and signed with someone else, I would still expect them to continue to try and make a move as the season plays on. I don't see any good in signing a guy they don't really want if it could limit any potential moves/trades after the season begins.

Also, where the is Dice and what is going on with this guy? This might be able to help a lot of questions people are having about this season.

[timvp]

Did you intentionally not talk about Kawhi and Tiago?

Perhaps Splitter and Leonard will be unleashed this year.

Even in the best case scenario, I don't think Leonard can be a championship-caliber difference-maker offensively. Asking that out of a non-lottery pick is asking something that hasn't been accomplished by any player in NBA history that I know of. Leonard no doubt has the tools to be a great defender down the road but in the short term, he's going to have a lot of growing pains. If he's even an average NBA defender his rookie year as a 20-year-old in Pop's system, that's a great sign. Asking for much more than that is basically asking for the impossible.

I see Leonard's overall energy and activity as his greatest asset; not an ability to be a shutdown defender. To reach that level, it takes time. Leonard isn't going to be able to go from a guy who spent most of his time defending the paint in college to a guy who is going to step into the NBA and be a lockdown three. Unfortunately.

As for Splitter, I see him much more as a really good system defender. He seems like he will be able to move his feet, get in the right positions and be a plus on that end of the court. But he's not a shotblocker and it doesn't look like he can be a mistake-erasing a la Tyson Chandler. Splitter could and should be very valuable on the defensive end but even if Pop gives him minutes, I highly doubt he's enough to give the Spurs a chance of being a top 5 defensive team.

[tmtcsc]

Hey TIMVP, I re-read the post. I missed the "doesn't require total overhaul" line. My bad.

[therealtruth]

@Russ

I don't think you're just being a homer. The Spurs attack last year was all offense and they were #1 for most of the season. If they play Splitter, Anderson, and Leonard they can improve defensively. Also it seems Pop is going to make defense a bigger point of emphasis. Those 3 guys are young enough to play good defense and they can push the vets. Making the offense slightly more varied and improving the defense will put them in good shape.

[ogait]

Corporate knowledge imo was always blown way out of proportion by Spurs fans. As if it is that much different from any other team. The more a group of guys play together the better potentially are the results.
It just was never the main reason why Spurs won.
At this point is more of an excuse for not rolling the dice than any kind of real belief by the Spurs FO or coaching staff.

[therealtruth]

Even in the best case scenario, I don't think Leonard can be a championship-caliber difference-maker offensively. Asking that out of a non-lottery pick is asking something that hasn't been accomplished by any player in NBA history that I know of. Leonard no doubt has the tools to be a great defender down the road but in the short term, he's going to have a lot of growing pains. If he's even an average NBA defender his rookie year as a 20-year-old in Pop's system, that's a great sign. Asking for much more than that is basically asking for the impossible.

I see Leonard's overall energy and activity as his greatest asset; not an ability to be a shutdown defender. To reach that level, it takes time. Leonard isn't going to be able to go from a guy who spent most of his time defending the paint in college to a guy who is going to step into the NBA and be a lockdown three. Unfortunately.

As for Splitter, I see him much more as a really good system defender. He seems like he will be able to move his feet, get in the right positions and be a plus on that end of the court. But he's not a shotblocker and it doesn't look like he can be a mistake-erasing a la Tyson Chandler. Splitter could and should be very valuable on the defensive end but even if Pop gives him minutes, I highly doubt he's enough to give the Spurs a chance of being a top 5 defensive team.

Chandler didn't block that many shots last year. Just over 1 a game. But he moved his feet and contested/altered shots. I think Splitter can do the same. Defense isn't just about blocking shots but forcing the miss and rebounding.

[Obstructed_View]

Splitter is also really good at getting the other team's bigs in foul trouble. Hard for a guy to hurt you from the bench.

[timvp]

Chandler didn't block that many shots last year. Just over 1 a game.

Yeah, that's why I put shotblockers and Chandler in two separate categories.

But he moved his feet and contested/altered shots. I think Splitter can do the same. Defense isn't just about blocking shots but forcing the miss and rebounding.

Chandler has stopped going for blocks but has become a much better defender. He uses his length to intimidate and alter shots.

I've never seen Splitter play a similar role. He's much more of a move-your-feet-and-try-to-flop defender like Oberto was. Perhaps the Spurs could try to change his stripes but that'd be asking a lot.

[Canibspur]

Spurs are just going to have to luck into another Timmy or DRob. Why? Its simple. No one wants to play in SA. Its like having to play in Milwaukee or Minnesota.

Aint that the ing truth? Damn shame too.

[ElNono]

Completely agree, LJ. Good read. The gimmicky fast-ball will win you RS games, but this team can't handle the grind of the playoffs. That's the reality right now.

[therealtruth]

Yeah, that's why I put shotblockers and Chandler in two separate categories.

Chandler has stopped going for blocks but has become a much better defender. He uses his length to intimidate and alter shots.

I've never seen Splitter play a similar role. He's much more of a move-your-feet-and-try-to-flop defender like Oberto was. Perhaps the Spurs could try to change his stripes but that'd be asking a lot.

Good points. There's a good article on Yahoo about Chandler. He does alot of good things defensively that don't always show up in the stats. He chases the guards, stops penetration, and keeps attached to his man. Also like Splitter he's good at drawing fouls. I think in the Finals he drew the most fouls. Splitter has to be more judicious in trying to draw charges. I am sure he will figure out that stuff as he plays more.

[ElNono]

Chandler has stopped going for blocks but has become a much better defender. He uses his length to intimidate and alter shots.

I've never seen Splitter play a similar role. He's much more of a move-your-feet-and-try-to-flop defender like Oberto was. Perhaps the Spurs could try to change his stripes but that'd be asking a lot.

Plus Splitter has yet to earn his stripes with the refs. Something that takes time. He's going to probably get called for a lot of fouls on what he thinks are legitimate blocks. It takes time for the league to get to know you. That's why I wanted him to get more minutes and burn that bridge last season.

[therealtruth]

Completely agree, LJ. Good read. The gimmicky fast-ball will win you RS games, but this team can't handle the grind of the playoffs. That's the reality right now.

The Spurs outran the Suns in '05 in the playoffs. The Lakers did the same thing two years ago against the Suns. There's nothing wrong with running in the playoffs. You just need to be able to get stops when it matters.

The Spurs just have to impose their will. A grind it out team is not going to like a fast game. That's part of the reason the Thunder were able to beat the Grizzlies. The Grizzlies couldn't keep up and were forced into starting OJ Mayo.

[ElNono]

The Spurs outran the Suns in '05 in the playoffs. The Lakers did the same thing two years ago against the Suns. There's nothing wrong with running in the playoffs. You just need to be able to get stops when it matters.

The Spurs just have to impose their will. A grind it out team is not going to like a fast game. That's part of the reason the Thunder were able to beat the Grizzlies. The Grizzlies couldn't keep up and were forced into starting OJ Mayo.

It's about personnel and matchups. Griz presented a grind it out game, and out gimmicky run couldn't get it done. The run and gun Suns always had great talent and played run and gun all season long, but couldn't put up enough points against good defensive teams.

Defense will trump offense everytime. You could play run and gun in the playoffs, you're just not going to win a ship with it.

What was the last running team winning a ship? Showtime Lakers?

[therealtruth]

It's about personnel and matchups. Griz presented a grind it out game, and out gimmicky run couldn't get it done. The run and gun Suns always had great talent and played run and gun all season long, but couldn't put up enough points against good defensive teams.

Defense will trump offense everytime. You could play run and gun in the playoffs, you're just not going to win a ship with it.

What was the last running team winning a ship? Showtime Lakers?

The problem is by the end of the year we had stopped running as much and I think that continued into the Grizzlies series. If our offense had been as good as it had been earlier in the year we could have probably have won against the Grizz despite our bad defense.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Even in the best case scenario, I don't think Leonard can be a championship-caliber difference-maker offensively. Asking that out of a non-lottery pick is asking something that hasn't been accomplished by any player in NBA history that I know of. Leonard no doubt has the tools to be a great defender down the road but in the short term, he's going to have a lot of growing pains. If he's even an average NBA defender his rookie year as a 20-year-old in Pop's system, that's a great sign. Asking for much more than that is basically asking for the impossible.

I see Leonard's overall energy and activity as his greatest asset; not an ability to be a shutdown defender. To reach that level, it takes time. Leonard isn't going to be able to go from a guy who spent most of his time defending the paint in college to a guy who is going to step into the NBA and be a lockdown three. Unfortunately.

As for Splitter, I see him much more as a really good system defender. He seems like he will be able to move his feet, get in the right positions and be a plus on that end of the court. But he's not a shotblocker and it doesn't look like he can be a mistake-erasing a la Tyson Chandler. Splitter could and should be very valuable on the defensive end but even if Pop gives him minutes, I highly doubt he's enough to give the Spurs a chance of being a top 5 defensive team.

If he can make rotations and play good post defense then that is already a leg up on the play of our bigs last year. Guys cutting to the basket seemed to have a less easy time versus the alternative however the sample size is very small.

The point I am making is that they havent just sat pat. Whether or not he can score they did make a significant move in trading Hill for him. He adds length and youth to the position and if anyone has the possibility of being an elite NBA defender, Kawhi has that chance.

i just found it odd that in your commentary of our moves and rotation players that you just left them out. We need our recently drafted guys like Splitter, Anderson and Leonard to step up. If they can then we can be very compe ive. If not then we might be lottery bound.

[benefactor]

The problem is by the end of the year we had stopped running as much and I think that continued into the Grizzlies series. If our offense had been as good as it had been earlier in the year we could have probably have won against the Grizz despite our bad defense.

Nope. Memphis had figured out how to defend the Spurs offense. The Spurs ran more earlier in the year but they still won a lot of games with shooting. Memphis was closing out hard on shooters and daring the Spurs to beat them on the inside.

[ElNono]

The problem is by the end of the year we had stopped running as much and I think that continued into the Grizzlies series. If our offense had been as good as it had been earlier in the year we could have probably have won against the Grizz despite our bad defense.

We can keep rehashing this, but it's really a waste of time... games eventually boil down the the same: needing a stop at a key moments.

The Spurs used to be a defensive team that could get those on demand. Right now, we have too many identifiable weak spots, and so no longer do. That isn't changing unless we change the personnel.