The Double-Edged Sword of Corporate Knowledge

[TDMVPDPOY]

the morons who didnt watch splitter in the playoffs last season when he got minutes, should all go eat a , he held his own underneath the ring single handedly man to man defense untill he was force to bail out blair, bonners mistakes...

if you want to try a trial and error, look at ghill first playoff series against the mavericks where he couldve came in handy after a successful rookie campaign, he wasnt used in that series, but the year later he was used againsst the mavs and we won that series....

if there is one person to blame, blame it on the coach

pop is starting to become like those coaches who hang around the organization way too long and hasnt adapt to change to his surroundings...bring in a new coach

[AFBlue]

the morons who didnt watch splitter in the playoffs last season when he got minutes, should all go eat a , he held his own underneath the ring single handedly man to man defense untill he was force to bail out blair, bonners mistakes...

if you want to try a trial and error, look at ghill first playoff series against the mavericks where he couldve came in handy after a successful rookie campaign, he wasnt used in that series, but the year later he was used againsst the mavs and we won that series....

if there is one person to blame, blame it on the coach

pop is starting to become like those coaches who hang around the organization way too long and hasnt adapt to change to his surroundings...bring in a new coach

Spurs won the Mavs series b/c of Hill and then he completely disappeared in the Suns series. Who is to say he would've had the same effect against the Mavs in the previous year just because he had success against them the following year?

If Splitter is in that series earlier do the Spurs win? Or does Splitter miss a key defensive rotation because he's still learning the system and the Spurs still lose? It's easy to say that Pop should've done "x" because you knew the outcome of not doing "x" resulted in failure. You can't say fo certain that doing "x" results in success, but I guess that doesnt matter.

[ElNono]

Easy to question when you know the end result was a failure.

I'm pretty sure it was Pop that both played down the record AND threw Splitter into the fire when the end result was still not decided.

I'm just the messenger.

[Ice009]

This is the first time I've heard Pop admit the lack of size:

“There’s got to be enough size there,” Popovich said. “We need a (big man) that can guard. If you get one that can guard, the more that guys spread the floor, the better off you are.”

So question , what is he and FO doing about it !

Timvp said that quote was from May.

[ElNono]

Would love to meet these "many people".

They were here throughout, you just missed them.

My point is that you can Monday morning quarterback the out of Pop's decision to hold PT from Splitter, but I doubt "many people" were saying it would be to the long-term detriment of the team WHILE we were winning all those games.

Again, you missed them. Plenty of fool's gold talk here about that record before the playoffs started. While people might not have guessed the season was ending in the 1st round, I think it's fair to say there was a general consensus our frontline was not up to par to win a championship.

[AFBlue]

I'm pretty sure it was Pop that both played down the record AND threw Splitter into the fire when the end result was still not decided.

I'm just the messenger.

He always plays down the record when they're doing well and takes the opportunity to rip them when they're playing poorly. It's his MO to lack positivity and keep his group grounded.

[ElNono]

Spurs won the Mavs series b/c of Hill and then he completely disappeared in the Suns series. Who is to say he would've had the same effect against the Mavs in the previous year just because he had success against them the following year?

Because that year we were trotting out a scared Roger Mason Jr. You can win or lose, but you have to play your best players, and Hill at that point was a better player than RMJ for what was required of that role (backup PG).

If Splitter is in that series earlier do the Spurs win? Or does Splitter miss a key defensive rotation because he's still learning the system and the Spurs still lose? It's easy to say that Pop should've done "x" because you knew the outcome of not doing "x" resulted in failure. You can't say fo certain that doing "x" results in success, but I guess that doesnt matter.

Nobody is saying there's guaranteed wins. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try alternatives when you both have the talent sitting on the bench and what you're trotting out there is getting abused.

[ElNono]

He always plays down the record when they're doing well and takes the opportunity to rip them when they're playing poorly. It's his MO to lack positivity and keep his group grounded.

So what's your point? Pop himself threw Splitter out there into the fire when the series was going sour. Why didn't he stick to his convictions if we "won so many games"?

[AFBlue]

They were here throughout, you just missed them.



Again, you missed them. Plenty of fool's gold talk here about that record before the playoffs started. While people might not have guessed the season was ending in the 1st round, I think it's fair to say there was a general consensus our frontline was not up to par to win a championship.

Links?

It's true I may have missed them because I was deployed at the time.

I understand the talk about fool's gold, but you're saying a large number were saying that Splitter needed the PT while we were winning because they knew he'd help come playoff time?

[AFBlue]

So what's your point? Pop himself threw Splitter out there into the fire when the series was going sour. Why didn't he stick to his convictions if we "won so many games"?

Actually helps my point. Pop didn't need to make the adjustment when the Spurs were winning, but Splitter was a natural adjustment when they started losing. You could argue that he waited too long to make the adjustment, but that's a different argument than saying they should've gone to him more during the season in spite of a highly successful campaign.

[Nathan89]

Links?

It's true I may have missed them because I was deployed at the time.

I understand the talk about fool's gold, but you're saying a large number were saying that Splitter needed the PT while we were winning because they knew he'd help come playoff time?

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthre...tiago+splitter

-I just don't see DeJuan matching up well with any potential playoff opponents, especially the Lakers. His greatest skill is offensive rebounding and that skill greatly diminishes when hes going up against legit rebounding 7 footers.

I strongly believe Tiago should be given DeJuan's minutes when the playoffs start. I don't think Pop will do it but the Blair/Bonner disaster shows that an adjustment has to be made....I just hope Pop realizes this before it's too late....wishful thinking most likely

TBH, there was a lot of this throughout the year from a lot of different people.

[ElNono]

Links?

It's true I may have missed them because I was deployed at the time.

I understand the talk about fool's gold, but you're saying a large number were saying that Splitter needed the PT while we were winning because they knew he'd help come playoff time?

Yes. Use the Search function. They should all there. I know for a fact that a good amount of posters did (including me).

I gotta get some sleep, but some here:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...0&postcount=15
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...00&postcount=8
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...1&postcount=23
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...92&postcount=9
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...0&postcount=80
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174617

Look at the dates...

[Nathan89]

I may be in the minority on this one, but I want the Spurs to face the Grizz rather than the Hornets. The main reason being their frontcourt size - IMO it's the best way to prepare for an eventual meeting with LA. The Spurs' frontcourt will have their hands full keeping ZBo and Gasol under control, and hopefully that helps them raise their game.

Also, playing Memphis fractionally increases the chance that Pop goes to Splitter, after Bonner gets owned on the boards. Aw, who am I kidding, Pop is never playing Splitter any meaningful minutes this year, even if Memphis exposes Bonner for the fraud that he is ---Warlord23

Great post though.

[ElNono]

Actually helps my point. Pop didn't need to make the adjustment when the Spurs were winning, but Splitter was a natural adjustment when they started losing. You could argue that he waited too long to make the adjustment, but that's a different argument than saying they should've gone to him more during the season in spite of a highly successful campaign.

Splitter wasn't ready. The regular season is when you get your players ready. That's what the argument has been all along. No team plays to win the regular season 'championship'.

[ElNono]

This one from March straight to the point:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175799

[therealtruth]

Splitter could definitely have helped if he had been thrown in earlier. I think Splitter/TD can be great defensively. At least it would have saved Dice wear and tear and allowed man to man defense. The Grizzlies probably don't hit all those outside shots if our perimeter guys don't have to worry about helping. It's always better to play man-to-man especially if you don't have the personnel to aggressively double and cover shooters.

I agree Pop should have known he would need to use Splitter. Even just for the idea it gives you more options. The Mavs knew they would need Chandler to battle against Bynum/Gasol. It's simply helps to have more size.

[objective]

from 3-16

I've been posting about the Spurs being frauds for months now, and Splitter is the biggest part of that.

This is not a le contending team with worn out McDyess, undersized (and 2nd year slump imo) Blair, and playoff choking Matt Bonner all in the big rotation over Splitter. , 10-Day Turnover Steve Novak is ahead of Splitter.

It's a joke, and the punchline is so great because of all the posters who continually pooh-poohed any concern over Splitter's lack of time all season. First it was "Bonner is the 5th big!" then came the "He missed camp, he's being worked in slowly", then the "Why mess up a good thing?" nonsense.

The Spurs are frauds who win games based on good health and the individual efforts of the big three with some regular season help from Gary Neal. That won't be good enough to win a le. They still have choke artists and disappearing acts like Bonner and Jefferson getting ready for playoff mode, they still don't have enough size without an established Splitter, and have unproven playoff commodities like Neal who could pull a Roger Mason, though I feel Neal's game is more well-rounded and can avoid a complete disaster.

Pop messing things up with his stubborness and his grudges has been posted about forever, but it seems more people are waking up to it. It's not a 'fire Pop!' declaration, it's just a frank admitting of his weaknesses; remember, nobody's perfect.

Splitter was the damn MVP of the second greatest league in the world and is getting bench-stomped by Steve Novak.

It's a disgrace, on par with some 10-day scrub getting Bowen's number.

[ALVAREZ6]

Actually helps my point. Pop didn't need to make the adjustment when the Spurs were winning, but Splitter was a natural adjustment when they started losing. You could argue that he waited too long to make the adjustment, but that's a different argument than saying they should've gone to him more during the season in spite of a highly successful campaign.

He should have played Splitter more throughout the season because the team that he coaches had championship hopes. Any team with NBA championship hopes, especially one in the Western Conference (meaning they inevitably must go through the Lakers), needs solid big men, primarily for defense and rebounds. The NBA playoffs are different than the regular season. The tempo is slower, teams can focus more on defense as they have 7-game rounds which allow for adjustments...the style naturally requires solid post players. There was no chance in for the Spurs to make it far in the playoffs with a post-prime Duncan as sole PF/C duties provider and some hot shooting guards.

The wins margin should have been enough to be comfortable with throwing Splitter in more often. I don't understand how Pop, a coach with such extensive playoff experience who understand what it takes to win, didn't play his 7' center more in the regular season while hoping his team could make a deep playoff run.

[jjktkk]

Splitter could definitely have helped if he had been thrown in earlier. I think Splitter/TD can be great defensively. At least it would have saved Dice wear and tear and allowed man to man defense. The Grizzlies probably don't hit all those outside shots if our perimeter guys don't have to worry about helping. It's always better to play man-to-man especially if you don't have the personnel to aggressively double and cover shooters.

I agree Pop should have known he would need to use Splitter. Even just for the idea it gives you more options. The Mavs knew they would need Chandler to battle against Bynum/Gasol. It's simply helps to have more size.

The Difference in Chandler though is his expierence. You can blame Pop for not having Splitter ready for the playoffs, but watching Splitter during the Memphis series, he wasn't ready to cotribute on a consistant basis.

[ElNono]

Pop handed minutes to Steve Novak ahead of Splitter. It's not even that the minutes were not there. And Steve Novak was playing garbage time anyways.

[objective]

more by me

11-17

Looks like Pop is in playoff mode.

Big man minute distribution:

1. Duncan
2. Bonner
3. Blair
4. McDyess
5. Splitter (DNP-CD)

greaaaaaaaaat

1-07

Another DNP/garbage-time game for Splitter.

Because we all know meaningless DEC-JAN games are no time to get someone ready for the playoffs.

1-07

Starting Splitter is the way to go. This is January, no better time than to give him the chance to get with it.

If he's garbage by the all-star break, you still have McDyess or Blair to start.

1-07

the only reason Splitter's development is slow is because the Spurs are making it slow.

...

then it's settled that they aren't le contenders this year if that's the case (Pop not playing Splitter).

We've seen the Bonner/Blair/McDyess dog and pony show before, and we know how it ends.

1-07

There's no good excuses to sit Splitter anymore.

Not even the "he missed training camp!" excuse. Or the "look at all their wins, if it ain't broke!..." one. They are struggling and there's no hurt to shake it up a little.

It's not like he was in Brazil, he was actually at the camp, he just wasn't playing.

He was the MVP and le winner of the second best league in the world and has shown in the few minutes he was gifted that he was at least useful defensively. It's not like he's Oberto who was behind a starter with a ring (Nazr) while also undersized and already over-the-hill athletically.

4-16 playoff preview thread

Spurs will have to reproduce their first round from last year:

Carried by the stars, plus George Hill stepping up his game much more than he did most of the regular season. Crusty savvyness from McDyess.

And that's it. Still a fraud team who would get smashed in the second round though.

But they did beat the higher seed last year while overcoming Bonner being wretched Bonner, RJ disappearing except for quarters 1-3 of game 2 and some results in game 4, and being benched in crunch time in several games, Mason being Mason, and little playing time for Blair or the 5th big.

Maybe Neal can succeed where Mason failed.

But the risk of Bonner getting pancaked against Randolph and Gasol and still choking while Jefferson lollygags and is outperformed by his MEM counterparts can make things very hard. Plus Splitter being ritually sacrificed in the name of "These playoffs aren't for him, it wouldn't be fair, he needs to get over himself, he can't spread the floor, he was too chummy with Scola" doesn't help.

[objective]

The Spurs were winning regular season games because the big 3 were healthy and playing their ass off. Which works in the regular season. That's the real 'corporate knowledge', being good enough when healthy to win regular season games. But the playoffs are a different animal.

The Spurs were one of two teams iirc that had 3 rotation players all with a PER of at least 20. The other team was the Lakers, and Bynum missed I think 28 games. The big 3 combined missed only 9 games when you don't count that tanked LA game right next to the end.

That's remarkable, and shows just how under served the big 3 were both by the scrub chokers around them (RJ and Bonner) and Pop's antics with Splitter.

So when the playoffs come, and the big 3 are no longer healthy, and the pressure ramps up and the chokers choke, and Splitter gets George Hill'd . . . the corporate knowledge is useless.

No more of the choking Axis of Failure with Bonner and Jefferson and the Spurs will be on the road to giving the big 3 the help they need. That means Splitter, Leonard, and Anderson getting playing time all season long has to be a priority. But will that happen?

I wish

[Obstructed_View]

The Difference in Chandler though is his expierence. You can blame Pop for not having Splitter ready for the playoffs, but watching Splitter during the Memphis series, he wasn't ready to cotribute on a consistant basis.

Yeah, his ten points and nine rebounds in 20 minutes was one of the worst playoff debuts in Spurs history.

People, there's a reason the Grizzlies tanked to get the Spurs. There are a lot of us that knew the Spurs were going to get chewed up on the front line. Jesus, even I got sick of reading my posts that had the word "Splitter" in them.

[ElNono]

AFBlue should get a pass because he did say he wasn't around then. But there's no doubt the point was brought up before Memphis rickrolled us.

[Obstructed_View]

Yes, it was argued bitterly starting about the time Pop made it clear that he had no plans to start Duncan and Splitter together.