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Based on a 2 game sample?
Spurs are on pace to go undefeated baby!
Kobe was a shut down defender - somewhere around 2000-2004. Once you become the number 1 option on your team, you can't also remain a perimeter shutdown defender, tbh.
I disagree about Manu being anything more than an adequate defender. Getting a lot of steals is not the same as playing food D.
In their primes, Kobe>>>Manu defensively(nothing against manu, but this is where Kobe's athleticism comes into play.
Based on a 2 game sample?
Spurs are on pace to go undefeated baby!
Manu contributes way more than just steals. He's infamous for taking charges (flopping), and making the right defensive play at the right time (won us more than game, like Denver last season) or the wrong move (trying to block Dirk in '06).
He had a lot of game-changing blocked shots on bigger-more athletic guys (Pau, Durant, Kobe, KG, Wade).
I would argue his defense didn't stood out more because we had a defensive beast in Bowen during some of that time.
And I agree with this. Kobe had all the tools. He just only brought it to display when challenged. He just wasn't a consistent defensive guy even though he had all the tools to do it.
Tbh, I mainly agree.Manu contributes way more than just steals. He's infamous for taking charges (flopping
He had a lot of game-changing blocked shots on bigger-more athletic guys (Pau, Durant, Kobe, KG, Wade).
I would argue his defense didn't stood out more because we had a defensive beast in Bowen during some of that time.
And I agree with this. Kobe had all the tools. He just only brought it to display when challenged. He just wasn't a consistent defensive guy even though he had all the tools to do it.
Before I go to bed:
lol spurs
lol 2-0 start giving hope
lol will lose in the first round again
lol lakers aren't any better
lol mavs even worse
lol bonner+blair front court
Good night.
No. Kobe was a terrible defender last year as well. Even Ariza was making him look bad in the 1st round last year. This year has been more of the same.
Didn't Kobe make the All Defensive Team last year? Travesty ...
His past 5-6 selections have been pathetic tbh.
If I had a team and wanted to win a championship and i have a choice of taking either Manu or Kobe, no question I take Manu....
Manu makes his teamates better.
Kobe has not been great on D, his ALL d TEAMS are so much BS TO ME! He is a great O player but so overrated on D it's rediculous! I have proven this time and time again from Billpus or Hamilton in 04 and Pierce or Allen in 08! If he is such a great defender why not guard one of them those years? He guarded Prince lol! He is not a lockdown great defender at all, very overrated there. I agree with you.I agree, crazy overrated defender from his name alone! He has never been lock down nor near it on D, read above.
man and you think the laker fans in the nba forum are nuts. wow
It's rediculous to compare Manu and Kobe's past career, their is no comparison that is not the point of thread. I'm comparing both moving forward a mid 30's manu vs a mid 30's Kobe. And me thinks because of Manu's game that dosen't rely on athleticim as much , will age better. In a sense Manu is the Nash of SG while Kobe is more like a westbrook or a younger Baron Davis of PG. Kobe relies on sheer explosiveness as a scorer to become a good passer, he is the ultimate scoring threat , the draws so much attention , and that's what makes him a good passer, while the way he creates jumpers and outside shots is by elevating / out jumping his defenders. While Manu relies on smarts to pass and get of his shot (jumpers) . A look, a fake, timing etc. He also relies on smarts on defense, being at the right place at the right time, anticipating the passing angles etc.
Lastly Manu has the advantage of having the same coach, core players (tony, timmy) , same system, to put him in situations to lead the team.
Kobe' has to do it all over again with coach Brown, and seriously is reluctant to be the quarterback & emotional leader to Gasol and Bynum. I mean it's hard reinvent your self as a facilitator when all these years you have been jacking up shots. and everyone's role was to move out of the way.
I just think Manu is in a better position to be succesfull in their twilight years. This is going to come down whose team goes further. If Manu leads his team , you can bet he will get all the support from timmy and company. With Kobe you will see a lot of ing from Bynum etc when things go sour.
As for the past, put Kobe in San Antonio and Manu in LA and see who ends up with more rings.
As for the future, Manu is a better passer and overall playmaker, he will age very well.
As for me, Manu Ginobili, not Kobe, got me interested back into professional basketball in the early 00s: he does things I had never seen from anyone before.
Here's Manu beign an "adequate defender"
I didn't remember this play, this is just as good as his Durant/Wade/KG/Kobe blocks.
I agree. Watching Manu reminds me of watching Jordan in that they're both fun to watch. I'm always watching to see what he's going to do next. I don't get that same feeling when watching Kobe. I think if Manu had been on a team where he was the star from day 1 he would be a perennial allstar.
Holy . I don't even know where to begin.
The Thread should of been named who is more valuable to his team tbh.
now that the ring count is
2.5
3
i believe the opinion of the thread
I know it's fun to piss off Lakerfan, but Kobe is a rotten measuring stick for what makes a great player unless you think chuckers are great. Kobe's scoring three more points per game on nine extra shots. Kobe's averaged more than 20 shots per game over nine different seasons. Manu's taken more than 20 shots in a game 20 times in his career.
More stats for tha chucker! WOoo WOOW..
Same thing I said minus the HOF talk. He's 2 on the le team because his ego allowed him to come off the bench. Kobe was 2 on 3 le teams. So, I don't get your point there.
Luke Walton on the Spurs would be a much better player today than he is in LA. Manu plays with international players who couldn't hold Luke's jock strap (but Luke would let them). So maybe some of the players LA has run through in Kobe's tenure were so ty because Kobe is such a piece of to work with. Both his coach and his teammate have blasted him in their books as being an arrogant, selfish prick. Do you think it's odd that SA finds all these decent players out of nowhere and the Lakers cannot develop a 1st overall pick?I think Kobe is as good a passer, just not as willing. I give him some slack in that because he played with some really horrible teams....it's not hard to "trust" your teammates when you're playing with Duncan, Parker, Horry, etc, as opposed to Kwame brown and luke en walton.
It boils down to selflessness. Sure Kobe is a compe or, but he's also an "all for me" guy, where as Manu is a "win at any cost" guy. Kobe doesn't see winning as meaningful if he's not the focal point of the win.
I mostly agree. Kobe's mentality probably cost him at least 1 ring.
That doesn't change the fact that Kobe>>>>>>>Manu.
Kobe is a piece of turd that will only give 80% if he doesn't think his team will win. Manu will guve 100% on any team in any situation. Mark these ing words.
Kobe at 80%>> Manu at 100%.
Great post.
Coming with the great stats and info right there.
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