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Those graphs are just depressing...
Well, hopefully this is the low point. Last night, the lost to the Bucks despite shooting 60% from the floor. And, unfortunately, it wasn't a fluke. The Spurs defense so far this season has been horrible.
Opponents are shooting 47.1% against the Spurs this season, which ranks 26th in the league. San Antonio is allowing 104.4 points per 100 possessions -- and that also has the Spurs ranked 26th.
Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Here are a few graphs to illustrate the deterioration of the Spurs once legendary defensive standards.
Field Goal Percentage Allowed - Rank
Field Goal Percentage Allowed
Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions - Rank
Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions
A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:
1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?
2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?
3. How good can this team be defensively?
4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?
Those graphs are just depressing...
All that beign said, Splitter and Leonard are a good start.
I appreciate the work you put into this but the answer to #1 is pretty simple. Robinson aging and leaving, Duncan aging, Bowen aging and leaving. Certainly other factors exacerbated the situation but I think it's a matter of premier defensive players getting old.
As to #3 and #4, it all hinges on having good defensive bigs that can allow the other players to play tight d, knowing that they've got a safety net under the rim with a shot blocker or two.
Other than Duncan, lack of a shotblocking presence. Not being able to replace Bowen.
Integrate Splitter, and Leonard into the starting lineup, or at least give them major minutes.
Top 10.
The big 3 have to play at an elite level. RJ stepping up. Neal, Splitter, and Leonard, contribute consistantly.
Not a good enough defensive big next to Timmy. That simple.
Sick stats! something is wrong with the roster of the last 3 years that much is clear...
Choosing to replace Talls and Bowen with Mike Finley, Matty Bonner and Soft .
FIFY
Outside of Duncan's decline the most obvious problem is another presence in the paint to help 21 out. Also we never found a replacement for Bowen. Players feed off one another so if they see a guy out there busting his ass on defense it's contagious, everybody else is going to follow suit and play their best D, draw charges, etc.
This team doesn't have that player to intimidate the other team and bring that defensive energy the Spurs of old were known for. Kahwi is looking promising but he is still raw when it comes to defending NBA caliber players.
Only way to improve defense this year is to make a trade for a defensive talent at the wing position or bring in a agile big man, neither will happen.
With the current roster this team could be average defensively. They just don't have that player who can lock down the opposing teams best player and our team defense is sluggish at times.
You didn't fix anything tbh.Well, hopefully this is the low point. Last night, the lost to the Bucks despite shooting 60% from the floor. And, unfortunately, it wasn't a fluke. The Spurs defense so far this season has been horrible.
Opponents are shooting 47.1% against the Spurs this season, which ranks 26th in the league. San Antonio is allowing 104.4 points per 100 possessions -- and that also has the Spurs ranked 26th.
Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Here are a few graphs to illustrate the deterioration of the Spurs once legendary defensive standards.
Field Goal Percentage Allowed - Rank
Field Goal Percentage Allowed
Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions - Rank
Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions
A few questions for the lovely denizens of SpursTalk:
1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?
2. What can the Spurs do to improve their defense?
3. How good can this team be defensively?
4. How good do you think they'd have to be to win a championship this year?
For years, the Spurs had two of the best defenders in the league on their team in Bowen and Duncan. Bowen is gone, Duncan is old (though he is still one of the better defenders on his position).
It also seems that Pop and the FO were hoping to get away with bringing in a fair share of players that aren't good individual defenders while still being able to form a good defensive unit - which hasn't worked, I'm afraid.
As for how good this current squad can be defensively - middle of the pack is the best we can hope for, I guess. The personnel required to be an elite defensive team just isn't there. But with potentially good defenders like Tiago and Leonard playing a somewhat important role and getting constant playing time, the Spurs might at least be a decent one.
1. I blame the FO. It was clear in the middle of the 2009 season when Bowen started receiving less minutes that the perimeter defense was declining. Perimeter players are taking Spurs' players off the dribble in isolations with no resistance. And Duncan has unfairly been expected to shoulder the entire load defensively for about four years now.
They've also failed to get the proper help for Duncan in the front-court. It was CLEAR in game 5 of the 2008 WCF that the Spurs were in need of another big who could protect the basket. It has been long overdue. Duncan has been relied on to carry the load offensively and defensively.
2. There isn't much the Spurs can do at this point except continue to play the young guys and hope they improve. Splitter and Leonard have been bright spots on an other wise horrific defensive team. But, if they're serious about improving defensively then they HAVE to find a way to obtain another big. Preferably, one who can defend quicker PF's
3. If personnel stays as it is right now, I say their ceiling is a middle-of-the-pack defensive team. And I'm being generous.
timvp we were dicussing this on another board in analyzing the "rebounds = rings" Pat Riley statement. Not only was the "r=r" exposed as not true, it lead to the #1 common stat thread among Champs was defense against opponents shooting. (opponents shooting percentage). This was about 7 years ago, would be interesting to see how it's held up since say 2000. Then from say 2005 onward (the end of Spursball as we knew it.)
1. Who or what is to blame for the decline in defense in San Antonio?
im not worried
Two names. Bonner and Blair.
pop still thinks he knows small ball...
Pop thinking small ball would ever be effective is a better statement I would say.
I really don't think we have bad individual defenders. We just cant get them to play good team defense. I think there are myriad reasons including the lack of a regular training camp, laziness on rotations, and the lack of defensive minded big men.
What we need is another 6'10'' -7' footer to complement Duncan. Someone who is obviously younger and a more athletic shot blocking presence in order to give the perimeter players someone to funnel their guys into. Blair and Splitter are not the answers
We have Malcolm Thomas now but Pop will probably play him for a series, see that his intuitions are correct and Thomas has no corporate knowledge and the Spurs will send him packing to the D-league.
1) Pop turning into Don Nelson and giving up on his own philosophy of defense first, and his stubbornness just because he's questioned rather than what's best for the team. He lost his damn mind.
2) Cutting Bruce Bowen. Come on man, at least keep him in the FO or on the sidelines as a coach, but of course Pop holds grudges and he's the decider, and he decided that Bruce should go.
3) Horrible FO decisions, not recruiting players who are defensive minded (a BIG included) as in years past....waaaaaay past. And letting go of Scola (again a personal decision on Pop because Scola called him out on his lies in the media).
4) Pop
5) Pop
6) Pop
7) Pop
8) Pop
9) Pop
10) Pop
Edit: adding a #11
11) the MEDIA! for being little pussies and not pressing the issue for either being stupid and agreeable with the horrible decisions of Pop (gullible assholes), or for being afraid of asking the real tough questions, and if you read my post in another thread, one producer from a local news station already admitted to me it was the ladder!
Media
P.S. If someone knows how to get these graphs to Pop, please do, and include a note that points out how defense declined suddenly when he cut Bruce and when he decided to back-stab himself and throw "defense first" into the garbage can. Ask him how that decision is going for him when looking at the graph and our success since then.
Last edited by SA210; 01-11-2012 at 01:29 PM.
You are not invited to the next PollyAnna Poppers gathering, Mister!
The layups are unforgivable and inexcusable. However for some reasons teams have also hit really tough shots against us. The D will get better and hopefully bonner will somehow end up the odd man out.
at least a 10 with an unstoppable offense(green bay packer style, if that makes sense)
1. You could blame Pop and co. for the decline in defense but it's much more complicated than that. Obviously with the trade of Bowen, losing a cast of vets that had just clicked so well, the decline in Duncan, it's natural we're here now. Unless other changes were made and we had either drafted or somehow lured other big names. It's sad going from a motto and almost a lifestyle in the spurs organization where defense wasn't just another word, to something like small ball.
2. I think the spurs have done all they can. Clearly they still recognize defense as a key part to winning championships otherwise they wouldn't have drafted Leonard. Perhaps they kept Green because of his surprising, almost impressive, defense and in a sense being a lite version of George Hill. I just hope that it isn't a fluke. Manu will be Manu and try to bring the best of both worlds. The biggest, and most glaring issue, is the lack of bigs and that's where the Spurs are short. Dice retiring and not able to entice a big like Kaman/Nene/Chandler (lol) is disheartening but that's the way it is in the NBA.
3. I think the spurs can be good, not great like in 2005 and before but not atrocious where teams will walk all over us. It may take some time to mesh and meld but I think the defense can be above average.
4. It's so hard to say or put a value on "good" when it comes to the NBA. One day you're playing lights out and the next you're in the gutter. We were good last season until Memphis steam rolled us in playoffs. Everything that happened last year aside, we need to be playing that good pre All-Star break every night and into the playoffs to win it all.
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