Free Agency: Top 25 Richard Jefferson Replacements

[Mel_13]

lol

rif

[timvp]

I was actually planning to bump this thread last night after how done Grant Hill looked

Hill and Battier both look like they are sprinting down the other side of the hill, no pun intended. They both have injury excuses but they look to be out of gas.

RJ has really hollow stats this year but his three-point shooting has been helpful. Kawhi, so far at least, has been able to take on more minutes than anyone expected.

We'll have to see how it plays out but it looks like the Spurs will come out okay with how things ended up. That said, I don't know how much credit the FO is due. They were chasing most of the top guys on their list. Keeping RJ was about Plan F.

[Mel_13]

I was actually planning to bump this thread last night after how done Grant Hill looked

Hill and Battier both look like they are sprinting down the other side of the hill, no pun intended. They both have injury excuses but they look to be out of gas.

RJ has really hollow stats this year but his three-point shooting has been helpful. Kawhi, so far at least, has been able to take on more minutes than anyone expected.

We'll have to see how it plays out but it looks like the Spurs will come out okay with how things ended up. That said, I don't know how much credit the FO is due. They were chasing most of the top guys on their list. Keeping RJ was about Plan F.

I wasn't giving the FO any credit at all. If Butler had taken the offer, RJ would be gone.

I just think we're better off than we would have been with Hill, Battier, etc. And if we are better off, it was by good fortune, not by design.

[manufan10]

I'm glad that so far it's working out better. If things go down hill with RJ, the Spurs still have the amnesty clause. Like Mel_13 said, if we had signed any of the others, RJ would be gone, and the Spurs would have been stuck with that player. The Spurs also have to option of raising Jefferson's stock to perhaps use him in a trade.

[DPG21920]

This kind of reminds me of the people who can give you the answer but can't explain the process so you question whether or not they really know the material truly. The test will be in the playoffs. This team (whether our expectations are real or not) is le or bust. Anything else IMO is a failure. I know my expectations are tempered and rebuilding is going to likely suck, but it appears this front office has gone for the shuffle our feet because we are in no rush to rebuild mode. It's fun to watch the Big 3, but I feel they have been cheated some because they haven't been put in a position to succeed by their front office.

I do feel that although the trajectory is the same as last year, that it's less fools gold. That's the good. The bad: I still don't think they are a contender and I do feel the front office has had a run of really bad years the past 2-3. They have put themselves in a bind and didn't add anything that one could objectively say propels them into contention. However, I personally am ok with watching The Big 3 still even though I don't necessarily agree with what has gone on as of late.

[DPG21920]

I wasn't giving the FO any credit at all. If Butler had taken the offer, RJ would be gone.

I just think we're better off than we would have been with Hill, Battier, etc. And if we are better off, it was by good fortune, not by design.

Agree with that. I still think there would be some better options than RJ, but he has been useful with his spectacular shooting.

[Mel_13]

This kind of reminds me of the people who can give you the answer but can't explain the process so you question whether or not they really know the material truly. The test will be in the playoffs. This team (whether our expectations are real or not) is le or bust. Anything else IMO is a failure. I know my expectations are tempered and rebuilding is going to likely suck, but it appears this front office has gone for the shuffle our feet because we are in no rush to rebuild mode. It's fun to watch the Big 3, but I feel they have been cheated some because they haven't been put in a position to succeed by their front office.

I do feel that although the trajectory is the same as last year, that it's less fools gold. That's the good. The bad: I still don't think they are a contender and I do feel the front office has had a run of really bad years the past 2-3. They have put themselves in a bind and didn't add anything that one could objectively say propels them into contention. However, I personally am ok with watching The Big 3 still even though I don't necessarily agree with what has gone on as of late.

Not sure where you were going with that or who you might be addressing. Care to clarify a bit?

[timvp]

I wasn't giving the FO any credit at all.

That line was aimed at chazley's take.

It's fun to watch the Big 3, but I feel they have been cheated some because they haven't been put in a position to succeed by their front office.

Pretty much agree with that. I'm not a big fan of taking the middle road between going all out for a le and rebuilding. While this is an entertaining team, I'd rather the Spurs go a true championship or bust route right now. As it stands, the Spurs on some hybrid championship-but-if-not-at-least-we'll-keep-a-clean-cap road.

[DPG21920]

Not sure where you were going with that or who you might be addressing. Care to clarify a bit?

Was talking about the FO with regards to RJ looking like the best option at this point.

[Mel_13]

That line was aimed at chazley's take.

Ok

Pretty much agree with that. I'm not a big fan of taking the middle road between going all out for a le and rebuilding. While this is an entertaining team, I'd rather the Spurs go a true championship or bust route right now. As it stands, the Spurs on some hybrid championship-but-if-not-at-least-we'll-keep-a-clean-cap road.

Sorry if I'm being dense, but what sort of moves do you mean?

The RJ trade was, IMO, a championship or bust route move that ignored the cap impacts.

Are you talking about similar type transactions?

I don't know. Between the Scola decision, the Gasol trade, and the RJ trade I have a hard time seeing a championship route. The rebuilding route is obvious.

[Technique]

This really doesn't look like a half-assed attempt at a le. But, rather a successful rebuilding process.

Unlike the Pistons who went the championship or bust route. The Spurs know they can still be elite with the withering big 3, and still develop promising young talent.

Besides, what big moves can the Spurs realistically make for them to be considered a championship contender?

[DPG21920]

Re-signing RJ wasn't a championship or bust move, it was a financial one with terrible basketball ramifications.

[Mel_13]

Re-signing RJ wasn't a championship or bust move, it was a financial one

Did anyone say otherwise?

with terrible basketball ramifications.

The amnesty provision has mitigated most of the negative basketball ramifications.

[Technique]

Re-signing RJ wasn't a championship or bust move, it was a financial one with terrible basketball ramifications.

Sure that was their intention. But it turned out to be much more.

Richard is having his best year yet with the Spurs. It turned out to be a 'championship or bust move' with financial security.

[DPG21920]

Did anyone say otherwise?



The amnesty provision has mitigated most of the negative basketball ramifications.

No one said otherwise, I was speaking more to the point I've made about how the FO has failed to choose a direction in recent years. The amnesty provision hasn't done anything yet since they haven't used it and without re-signing RJ, the Spurs would have been in a financial position that was advantageous somewhat to helping actually contend, so I disagree that it's mitigated the basketball ramifications in that regard.

[acoelho1]

Like everyone else on this forum, I wanted RJ gone but now I'm glad we stood pat. I think KL and DG are providing more to the team than any free agent we could have brought in to the fold. We clearly have a log jam at the guard spot and would love for the Spurs to make a run at one of Utah's bigs, specifically Al Jefferson. We will have to be creative and include another team since our assets alone may not cut it. I would think Utah wants to move forward with their younger bigs.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Ok

Sorry if I'm being dense, but what sort of moves do you mean?

The RJ trade was, IMO, a championship or bust route move that ignored the cap impacts.

Are you talking about similar type transactions?

I don't know. Between the Scola decision, the Gasol trade, and the RJ trade I have a hard time seeing a championship route. The rebuilding route is obvious.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. The FO has made some poor decisions (re-signing RJ to 40m particularly), but has also been pretty hamstrung by the cap, and lack of tradable assets (aside from the Big 3), over the past few years. Yet, somehow, they've completely re-tooled with quality young role players, some of whom are true diamonds (Leonard and Splitter are sure to be Spurs for the long haul). Thus:

This really doesn't look like a half-assed attempt at a le. But, rather a successful rebuilding process.

Unlike the Pistons who went the championship or bust route. The Spurs know they can still be elite with the withering big 3, and still develop promising young talent.

Besides, what big moves can the Spurs realistically make for them to be considered a championship contender?

[Mel_13]

No one said otherwise, I was speaking more to the point I've made about how the FO has failed to choose a direction in recent years. The amnesty provision hasn't done anything yet since they haven't used it and without re-signing RJ, the Spurs would have been in a financial position that was advantageous somewhat to helping actually contend, so I disagree that it's mitigated the basketball ramifications in that regard.

How so? They would have had the exact same options as if they had used the amnesty, which they were clearly willing to use.

[ChuckD]

I was actually planning to bump this thread last night after how done Grant Hill looked

Hill and Battier both look like they are sprinting down the other side of the hill, no pun intended. They both have injury excuses but they look to be out of gas.

RJ has really hollow stats this year but his three-point shooting has been helpful. Kawhi, so far at least, has been able to take on more minutes than anyone expected.

We'll have to see how it plays out but it looks like the Spurs will come out okay with how things ended up. That said, I don't know how much credit the FO is due. They were chasing most of the top guys on their list. Keeping RJ was about Plan F.

Josh Howard now looks like he's circling the bowl in Utah, too. I think the only Spurs SF target that is performing well is Caron.

[DPG21920]

How so? They would have had the exact same options as if they had used the amnesty, which they were clearly willing to use.

IIRC, if RJ wouldn't have opted out, they would have been LT payers for 1 year and had cap space the very next year in order to add to the roster. RJ wouldn't have been a Spur last year and they would have achieved the flexibility sooner that they currently don't have.

[Mel_13]

IIRC, if RJ wouldn't have opted out, they would have been LT payers for 1 year and had cap space the very next year in order to add to the roster. RJ wouldn't have been a Spur last year and they would have achieved the flexibility sooner that they currently don't have.

You don't recall correctly.

If RJ hadn't opted out, he would have been on the team last season on the last year of his previous contract.

His contract would have ended at the end of 2010-11 season. The Spurs financial options this offseason with RJ off the books would have been exactly the same as if they used the amnesty, which they were clearly willing to use.

[DPG21920]

Fair enough, don't know why I was a year off, but it doesn't change the fact the FO didn't know the amnesty was coming and could* have put themselves in a rough spot if not for the bailout that is the amnesty. Again, it appears to be a case of luck vs skill.

Also it's not linear either. With him off the books this last year, instead of having to use the amnesty is a much different scenario with regards their possible willingness to spend (since they are still paying RJ if they use the amnesty). The overall point was that back when the decision was made and really going on 3 years now, the front office has failed to do anything of note to help the team contend.

[DPG21920]

Also, wouldn't RJ have lopped off 15M from the books with his initial salary? I don't know why my Math seems off, but I could have sworn they would have had more than the MLE to use if not resigning RJ?

[ChuckD]

Fair enough, don't know why I was a year off, but it doesn't change the fact the FO didn't know the amnesty was coming and could* have put themselves in a rough spot if not for the bailout that is the amnesty. Again, it appears to be a case of luck vs skill.

Also it's not linear either. With him off the books this last year, instead of having to use the amnesty is a much different scenario with regards their possible willingness to spend (since they are still paying RJ if they use the amnesty). The overall point was that back when the decision was made and really going on 3 years now, the front office has failed to do anything of note to help the team contend.

Holt was on the management committee. He knew exactly what they were pushing for. I even saw that speculation in an article during or right after the lockout.

[Mel_13]

Fair enough, don't know why I was a year off, but it doesn't change the fact the FO didn't know the amnesty was coming and could* have put themselves in a rough spot if not for the bailout that is the amnesty. Again, it appears to be a case of luck vs skill.

Given Holt's position during the CBA negotiations, I'd say it's a good bet that the Spurs expected an amnesty provision to be part of the new CBA.

Also it's not linear either. With him off the books this last year, instead of having to use the amnesty is a much different scenario with regards their possible willingness to spend (since they are still paying RJ if they use the amnesty).

Except that they were clearly willing to use the MLE and sign an RJ replacement.

The overall point was that back when the decision was made and really going on 3 years now, the front office has failed to do anything of note to help the team contend.

The RJ trade was in June, 2009. It didn't work out but there was nearly universal approval of that trade on ST and among the most respected basketball experts. Many believed the trade would make the Spurs contenders in 2009-10 and 2010-11.