How good was Larry Bird?

[Deuce Bigalow]

The 2000s will probably be remembered as Kobes era by ESPN and the NBA for business reasons. The Lakers and Kobe have much more appeal than the Spurs and Duncan. Casual fans will go with that, but I think most unbiased knowledgeable people will realize it was Duncans decade.

All 3 have a case, it will be remembered as Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan's eras, 3 top 10 players of alltime.

[z0sa]

Please explain, why Duncan deserves to be recognized as the player of the decade over Kobe.

There's definitely an argument to be made. SI didn't give Timmy POTD for s and giggles. Acting like there isn't is classic stretch 'trolling'.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I would expect Horry to give his former players, particularly Hakeem, some props. And scoring wise, Kobe probably is the best player Horry ever played with.

I thought Kobe's an in-efficient chucker?

[DeadlyDynasty]

The 2000s will probably be remembered as Kobes era by ESPN and the NBA for business reasons. The Lakers and Kobe have much more appeal than the Spurs and Duncan. Casual fans will go with that, but I think most unbiased knowledgeable people will realize it was Duncans decade.

Kobe won 4 rings to Duncan's 3 from 2000-2009. He also had 2 more finals appearances.

Kobe was 4-1 against Duncan in the playoffs in that decade too.

Throw in historical performances like 81, 62, and countless buzzer beaters and I'd say you don't know what the you're talking about.

[stretch]

No one will ever forget 05-07, no matter how hard Kobefan wants them to.

the fact that Kobe even found a way to get the Lakers into the playoffs (and nearly upset one of the top teams) with garbage like Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton in the starting lineup is something to be heavily considered during those 3 awful years. At no point in his career, has Duncan ever had anywhere remotely as bad of a team as Kobe had in that span.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Shaq ain't in that top 10. Duncan's great fall-off has me wondering.

Yes he is, EASILY, not even gonna explain

[z0sa]

the fact that Kobe even found a way to get the Lakers into the playoffs (and nearly upset one of the top teams) with garbage like Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton in the starting lineup is something to be heavily considered during those 3 awful years. At no point in his career, has Duncan ever had anywhere remotely as bad of a team as Kobe had in that span.

2003 says o. That was a rebuilding year with no other even fringe all-stars, including DRob. It wasn't 05-07 bad, but considering the inexperience and what the pundits were saying, they're definitely comparable from a Tim vs Kobe standpoint. Seeing what Kobe did without an all-star and seeing what Tim did without one, I think it's more than fair to compare the two teams.

Besides, Tim wouldn't have missed the playoffs, or quit in Game 7 tbh

[Deuce Bigalow]

2003 says o. That was a rebuilding year with no other even fringe all-stars, including DRob. It wasn't 05-07 bad, but considering the inexperience and what the pundits were saying, they're definitely comparable from a Tim vs Kobe standpoint. Seeing what Kobe did without an all-star and seeing what Tim did without one, I think it's more than fair to compare the two teams.

ARE
YOU
ING
KIDDING
ME

[z0sa]

Shaq ain't in that top 10.

[stretch]

2003 says o. That was a rebuilding year with no other even fringe all-stars, including DRob. It wasn't 05-07 bad, but considering the inexperience and what the pundits were saying, they're definitely comparable from a Tim vs Kobe standpoint. Seeing what Kobe did without an all-star and seeing what Tim did without one, I think it's more than fair to compare the two teams.

Besides, Tim wouldn't have missed the playoffs, or quit in Game 7 tbh

I agree they were inexperienced, but they were a very well rounded, complete team that year. They had plenty of talent in Jackson, Manu, Parker, and Duncan. Good role players to fill needs/depth with Robinson, Rose, Bowen, and Claxton.

You must be re ed or something.

[z0sa]

ARE
YOU
ING
KIDDING
ME

You had Odom, you had Brown who was decent on defense, and couldn't even make the playoffs.

hopefully stretch has something better. I argued this exact point with you before to the same total victory. No matter what Parker and Manu and SJax became in the future, the two former were near-rookies with zero NBA playoff experience and SJax was a loose gun playing for an injured Smith and a contract.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You had Odom, you had Brown who was decent on defense, and couldn't even make the playoffs.

hopefully stretch has something better. I argued this exact point with you before to the same total victory. No matter what Parker and Manu and SJax became in the future, the two former were near-rookies with zero NBA playoff experience and SJax was a loose gun playing for an injured Smith and a contract.

They made the Playoffs in 06 and 07 when they were healthy
Kobe and Odom were injured in 05

btw Manu was not your "typical" rookie

[z0sa]

I agree they were inexperienced, but they were a very well rounded, complete team that year. They had plenty of talent in Jackson, Manu, Parker, and Duncan. Good role players to fill needs/depth with Robinson, Rose, Bowen, and Claxton.

You must be re ed or something.

I admitted the 03 Spurs were a better team clearly. However, we were comparing Tim vs Kobe, remember?

Re ed is posting someone else is re ed because they disagree with you.

Re ed is also acting like there's no argument for Tim being POTD

[FkLA]

Kobe won 4 rings to Duncan's 3 from 2000-2009. He also had 2 more finals appearances.

Kobe was 4-1 against Duncan in the playoffs in that decade too.

Throw in historical performances like 81, 62, and countless buzzer beaters and I'd say you don't know what the you're talking about.

We talking about Player of the Decade not Team of the Decade. Your argument is basically 4>3.

the fact that Kobe even found a way to get the Lakers into the playoffs (and nearly upset one of the top teams) with garbage like Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton in the starting lineup is something to be heavily considered during those 3 awful years. At no point in his career, has Duncan ever had anywhere remotely as bad of a team as Kobe had in that span.

He had Lamar. He had Caron for a year. Healthy Baby Drew for a year or two. Vlad Rad when he was decent. George carried over from the 3peat years. Atkins was decent. People are quick to point out Smush or Kwame but conveniently leave out other solid players. Not saying he shouldve won a le with these people but he really did no better than lets say what Tmac/Vince did with their horrible teammates in Orlando/Toronto.

[z0sa]

They made the Playoffs in 06 and 07 when they were healthy
Kobe and Odom were injured in 05

btw Manu was not your "typical" rookie

oh yeah, and don't forget caron in his prime. Looking at FKLA's post and the roster now, that was by no means a sure-fire lottery team with Kobe playing at a high level. Acting like it was is obfuscation to the lowest degree.

BTW check Manu's numbers, nothing spectacular - his best was yet to come. Parker was the one who really stepped it up in 03.

[Deuce Bigalow]

oh yeah, and don't forget caron in his prime. BTW check Manu's numbers, nothing spectacular. Parker was the one who really stepped it up in 03

Kobe was injured and so was Odom
check Kobe's numbers, that was not a healthy Kobe
look at his numbers from 05 to 06 and 07

[z0sa]

Kobe was injured

aren't you one of the ones who constantly about Spurfan bringing up Manu's injuries playing a role in the Spurs loss in 08?

[dunkman]

Kobe won 4 rings to Duncan's 3 from 2000-2009. He also had 2 more finals appearances.

Kobe was 4-1 against Duncan in the playoffs in that decade too.

Throw in historical performances like 81, 62, and countless buzzer beaters and I'd say you don't know what the you're talking about.

The '02 game 6 of the WCF's was rigged. That's a fact. Kobe won 3 les, not 4.

And he was the Lakers best player in only one of those runs. He never did anything great in the finals, unlike Duncan.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The '02 game 6 of the WCF's was rigged. That's a fact. Kobe won 3 les, not 4.

And he was the Lakers best player in only one of those runs. He never did anything great in the finals, unlike Duncan.

btw Kobes best Finals ('09) has a 28.3 PER, higher than any of Magic's, Bird's, Kareem's, and Hakeem's Finals performances

[Deuce Bigalow]

aren't you one of the ones who constantly about Spurfan bringing up Manu's injuries playing a role in the Spurs loss in 08?

Like they were going to win anyways

[DeadlyDynasty]

The '02 game 6 of the WCF's was rigged. That's a fact. Kobe won 3 les, not 4.

The '07 game 3 of the WCSF's was rigged. That's a fact. Tim won 2 les, not 3.





You can't win this.

[stretch]

I admitted the 03 Spurs were a better team clearly. However, we were comparing Tim vs Kobe, remember?

Re ed is posting someone else is re ed because they disagree with you.

Re ed is also acting like there's no argument for Tim being POTD

Your only valid comparison between the 02-03 Spurs and the 05-06 Lakers is that there were no all-stars aside from Tim and Kobe. In terms of the quality of the players on the roster, there is no comparison whatsoever. The 02-03 Spurs were full of quality players who fit team needs, and had talent. The 05-06 Lakers had some good role players, but no one capable of stepping up consistently to take pressure off Kobe. At least Jackson, Manu, and Parker all stepped up at different points to help Timmy.

If that is the only reason you have for Timmy being > than Kobe, than Dirk must be > Kobe as well, considering the Mavs won the championship without another all-star.

Pretty re ed, tbqmfh.

[stretch]

BTW check Manu's numbers, nothing spectacular - his best was yet to come. Parker was the one who really stepped it up in 03.

Manu's full season numbers that year weren't spectacular, but he didn't get much PT early in the season. In fact, I think he was injured part of it too. But come February and March, he really picked it up to another level. I remember that it around when Barkley fell in love with the guy and started doing his "GINOOOOBILIIIIIIIIIII!" thing during his TNT broadcasts.

The energy that Ginobili brought to the floor with him when going into games was very infectious for the Spurs. Don't underestimate his production and contributions to that le team, by looking at his season numbers. He was a BIG part of that squad.

[stretch]

Either way, I'm still curious as to what makes Duncan > Kobe in terms of player of the decade talks. Aside from incredibly poor comparisons of the 02-03 Spurs to the 05-06 Lakers supporting casts, that is.

[FkLA]

btw Kobes best Finals ('09) has a 28.3 PER, higher than any of Magic's, Bird's, Kareem's, and Hakeem's Finals performances

37-97 .360% in game 7's
38-108 .352% in le winning games
41% in 37 finals games
66-163 .400% to win finals mvp....lowest fg% ever for a finals mvp (dirk this yr is #2 at 41% i believe)