Spurs pursuing Kenyon Martin

[TD 21]

There are a few wing free agents who could probably do as well or better than Anderson at this point.

I don't disagree. But there's the matter of him being their highest pick since Duncan and not really getting much of a chance. It would reflect really poorly on them to trade him for basically nothing of value and for the purpose of saving what amounts to mere cents by NBA standards (meaning the difference between him and a minimum salaried wing).

That ship sailed when they didn't pick up the option.

It didn't, because technically that doesn't close the door on him returning. But if, with the bump in cap space that provides, they acquire a quality big out of it, then getting rid of him for basically nothing would be swept under the rug.

There's probably some decent savings to be had if he's traded to another team that is under the cap.

Minor savings. But if that's all they're doing it for, they're going to come off as flat out petty. Given how Duncan spoke about Anderson on media day last season, they obviously built him up. To give up on him this quickly just to save a few cents would not send a good message to the team or the fans.

[TJastal]

I don't disagree. But there's the matter of him being their highest pick since Duncan and not really getting much of a chance. It would reflect really poorly on them to trade him for basically nothing of value and for the purpose of saving what amounts to mere cents by NBA standards (meaning the difference between him and a minimum salaried wing).

It didn't, because technically that doesn't close the door on him returning. But if, with the bump in cap space that provides, they acquire a quality big out of it, then getting rid of him for basically nothing would be swept under the rug.

Minor savings. But if that's all they're doing it for, they're going to come off as flat out petty. Given how Duncan spoke about Anderson on media day last season, they obviously built him up. To give up on him this quickly just to save a few cents would not send a good message to the team or the fans.

I think it sends a great message actually. That the spurs aren't interested in giving unnecessary players charity contracts and are more interested in fielding a winning basketball team.

[spurs4real]

Always pursuing, never persued.

Could not have said it better myself. It's the story of the San Antonio Spurs

[slick'81]

would be great but wont hold my breath

[ChumpDumper]

I don't disagree. But there's the matter of him being their highest pick since Duncan and not really getting much of a chance. It would reflect really poorly on them to trade him for basically nothing of value and for the purpose of saving what amounts to mere cents by NBA standards (meaning the difference between him and a minimum salaried wing).

Reflect poorly to whom?

Message board posters?

It didn't, because technically that doesn't close the door on him returning. But if, with the bump in cap space that provides, they acquire a quality big out of it, then getting rid of him for basically nothing would be swept under the rug.

The guy doesn't play now. He has already been replaced.

Minor savings. But if that's all they're doing it for, they're going to come off as flat out petty. Given how Duncan spoke about Anderson on media day last season, they obviously built him up. To give up on him this quickly just to save a few cents would not send a good message to the team or the fans.

The guy doesn't play now. He has already been replaced.

If they keep Anderson and he never improves and they subsequently miss out on the next Danny Green, how would you feel? It does become a numbers game in just about any situation. If the Spurs can get ~$1.2 million off the books by paying a team less than that to take Anderson, that isn't chump change to anyone.

[TD 21]

TJastal, how would trading away Anderson for nothing of value and replacing him with a D-League scrub until Ginobili returns, send a message about them being interested in fielding a winning basketball team? It would send a message about them being cheap.

Reflect poorly to whom?

Message board posters?

The team, particularly the big three, who have presumably been led to believe they're still trying to contend. Not that trading Anderson would alter their chances, but it's the message it would send. Much like trading Ratliff two seasons ago. Obviously, that wasn't going to and didn't change their outlook, but it was as if they were saying, in a subtle way, that they were waiving the white flag.

The guy doesn't play now. He has already been replaced.

If they keep Anderson and he never improves and they subsequently miss out on the next Danny Green, how would you feel? It does become a numbers game in just about any situation. If the Spurs can get ~$1.2 million off the books by paying a team less than that to take Anderson, that isn't chump change to anyone.

I think there's still a better chance of Anderson becoming a rotation player than some run of the mill D-League scrub (I know it pains you to hear that).

I'm talking about right now, though. Ginobili is still a ways off, so they'd need a minimum salaried wing for the time being. In which case they'd be saving under .5 million (pro-rated) by trading Anderson for nothing.

[mystargtr34]

I dont know if i would want him here.. mainly because its another excuse for Pop not to play Tiago. Unless one of Blair or Bonner are completely removed from the rotation, and Tiago gets 30 minutes then im all for it.. but i dont see that happening.

K-Mart as a player.. i still think he can play a role on a good team albeit in a reduced role. He would be fine off the bench playing C next to Bonner or Blair.. size isnt really an issue playing against 2nd units.. but you still have to defend the rim somewhat which he can do. Even if he starts and Tiago conitnues off the bench and gets 30 minutes i wont mind, anything is better than Blair in the starting lineup at this point.

[ChumpDumper]

TJastal, how would trading away Anderson for nothing of value and replacing him with a D-League scrub until Ginobili returns, send a message about them being interested in fielding a winning basketball team? It would send a message about them being cheap.

If it's a guy who plays better than Anderson does now, it's a pretty clear message.

The team, particularly the big three, who have presumably been led to believe they're still trying to contend. Not that trading Anderson would alter their chances, but it's the message it would send. Much like trading Ratliff two seasons ago. Obviously, that wasn't going to and didn't change their outlook, but it was as if they were saying, in a subtle way, that they were waiving the white flag.

But Anderson isn't playing.

I think there's still a better chance of Anderson becoming a rotation player than some run of the mill D-League scrub (I know it pains you to hear that).

Anderson already got beat out by a run of the mill D-League scrub. And there are NBA free agents out there who could conceivably contribute.

I'm talking about right now, though. Ginobili is still a ways off, so they'd need a minimum salaried wing for the time being. In which case they'd be saving under .5 million (pro-rated) by trading Anderson for nothing.

No, they could be saving much more than that.

I'm not flat out advocating a salary dump at this point. I'm just saying it could make sense.

[TD 21]

If it's a guy who plays better than Anderson does now, it's a pretty clear message.

Barring injury to another wing, he wouldn't get the opportunity to prove it, much like Thomas.

But Anderson isn't playing.

Neither was Splitter last season. I guess they should have given him away for nothing and signed some D-League scrub to replace him at a fraction of the price.

Anderson already got beat out by a run of the mill D-League scrub. And there are NBA free agents out there who could conceivably contribute.

Green may have had a short stint in the D-League, but he was always considered an NBA prospect. I don't think anyone saw him being as good an all around player as he's been, but it's not like it's surprising that he looks like an NBA player.

Many of the NBA free agents would cost the veteran's minimum, in which case they'd be saving nothing and could actually be adding salary (depending on their service time).

No, they could be saving much more than that.

I'm not flat out advocating a salary dump at this point. I'm just saying it could make sense.

The bottom line is, if they flat out salary dump him -- without assurances that Martin would sign with them -- then whatever they saved wouldn't be going into upgrading the team this season.

Why would you, a fan, care about how much money a bunch of rich guys would be saving on something, unless it goes into upgrading the team?

[ChumpDumper]

Barring injury to another wing, he wouldn't get the opportunity to prove it, much like Thomas.

So you're saying it probably wouldn't make any difference on the court. I agree.

Neither was Splitter last season. I guess they should have given him away for nothing and signed some D-League scrub to replace him at a fraction of the price.

That's a quality straw man you built there. Good job.

Green may have had a short stint in the D-League, but he was always considered an NBA prospect. I don't think anyone saw him being as good an all around player as he's been, but it's not like it's surprising that he looks like an NBA player.

So you'd be ok with Anderson's being replaced by an NBA prospect. Alright.

Many of the NBA free agents would cost the veteran's minimum, in which case they'd be saving nothing and could actually be adding salary (depending on their service time).

So you don't want to improve the team if it costs money? You're all over the place here.

The bottom line is, if they flat out salary dump him -- without assurances that Martin would sign with them -- then whatever they saved wouldn't be going into upgrading the team this season.

Says you. And saving money is something team owners like to do.

Why would you, a fan, care about how much money a bunch of rich guys would be saving on something, unless it goes into upgrading the team?

I didn't say I cared. I said it can't be ignored. You want to pretend businessmen don't care about money. That's just silly.

[Mark in Austin]

Eh, I'm not sure how I feel about this. Yeah he's a mobile bigman whose an above average defender, but the fit doesn't excite me.

1. If the Spurs are to do anything in the playoffs, it'll be due to a frontline of Duncan and Splitter. If Splitter doesn't eventually start playing 30+ minutes a night, the Spurs don't have a legitimate shot. Adding Martin might make that less likely.

2. Martin wanting a prominent role could also become an issue. He's not known for being great in the locker room and he'd probably become a distraction the first time Pop decides to play Bonner extended minutes.

3. The Spurs will have to be highly efficient on offense to make a run. Martin's midrange shot -- that he shoots no matter what -- is highly inefficient.

4. Martin plays the high post these days. Duncan plays the high post too nowadays. So really, they're not that good of a fit next to each other anymore. Blair, Splitter and Bonner have their flaws but at least none really invade Duncan's space.

5. Martin is injury prone and a choker. Neither trait is good for a team trying to make a playoff run, especially one that already has a handful of injury prone players as it is.

That said, if it were guaranteed that Martin would replace Bonner in the rotation, I'd probably do it. But that wouldn't happen so, IMO, he's not really worth bringing in.

+1. Only if Bonner is waived, and we all know that isn't happening. Would be a disaster if Martin was brought aboard and took Splitter's minutes. Especially since he is such a choker. He belongs on the Knicks with the founding member of the backwards fighting pussies club.

[TJastal]

Gotta hand it to TD_21 he's really keeping the faith...even though the fanboys have stopped accepting applications at this time.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

DISGUSTING. I don't want this loser anywhere near the Spurs locker room. If he signs on that will just mean less time for Splitter. You know it's gotten bad for the Spurs when "fans" want Kenyon Martin on the team.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, you can never really totally write off a young guy's chances until he actually hangs it up -- but say Da'Sean Butler continues to improve to the point where he's NBA ready. Would you accept an Anderson salary dump to accommodate him?


(it's a totally premature scenario, merely hypothetical)

[TD 21]

So you're saying it probably wouldn't make any difference on the court. I agree.

So you're saying you're an unabashed front office apologist. I agree.

That's a quality straw man you built there. Good job.

You built it when you essentially said if a player is not playing, they're useless, so you might as well trade them, even if can't get anything of discernible value for them.

So you'd be ok with Anderson's being replaced by an NBA prospect. Alright.

Green was a legit NBA prospect. Almost every single player in the D-League isn't. Get over it.

So you don't want to improve the team if it costs money? You're all over the place here.

Improve? I'm just explaining why what you said makes no sense. You're all concerned about them saving a few cents and then you bring up a scenario where they wouldn't do that.

Says you. And saving money is something team owners like to do.

You not being a team owner, I'm not sure why this possibility would excite you.

I didn't say I cared. I said it can't be ignored. You want to pretend businessmen don't care about money. That's just silly.

I never said you did, but you insinuated it. I never pretended that and I'm not putting it past the Spurs to do what you're suggesting (even if it doesn't come as a prelude to a Martin signing). I'm just looking at this from a fan's perspective and as a fan, I don't care about them saving money.

[ChumpDumper]

So you're saying you're an unabashed front office apologist. I agree.

Hey, an ad hominem! You're going for all the fallacies at once.

You built it when you essentially said if a player is not playing, they're useless, so you might as well trade them, even if can't get anything of discernible value for them.

Don't use the term if you don't know what it means.

Green was a legit NBA prospect. Almost every single player in the D-League isn't. Get over it.

Get over what? I'm not saying they would sign anyone from the D-League but an NBA prospect.

Improve? I'm just explaining why what you said makes no sense. You're all concerned about them saving saving a few cents and then you bring up a scenario where they wouldn't do that.

I'm not all concerned about anything. You fundamentally misunderstand what I write. don't worry, you aren't the first.

You not being a team owner, I'm not sure why this possibility would excite you.

Who said it excited me?

I never said you did, but you insinuated it. I never pretended that and I'm not putting it past the Spurs to do what you're suggesting (even if it doesn't come as a prelude to a Martin signing), I'm just looking at this from a fan's perspective and as a fan, I don't care about them saving money.

Well, good for you. That's swell.

[angelbelow]

DISGUSTING. I don't want this loser anywhere near the Spurs locker room. If he signs on that will just mean less time for Splitter. You know it's gotten bad for the Spurs when "fans" want Kenyon Martin on the team.

Well when your 3rd big is a coin flip between Bonner and Blair, it has gotten bad. Martin isn't ideal but hes not a terrible choice either. Hes a versatile and well do ented defender and he has a nice midrange jumper. Other pros and cons are sprinkled through-out the thread so I won't go into that.

[blackfire12]

Eh, I like the idea of him being on the team but he really doesn't fit the mold of the spurs character judgement. If it took Bonner/Blair/Anderson then I'm all for it, I still don't see it happening and it isn't like we absolutely need him.

[TD 21]

Hey, an ad hominem! You're going for all the fallacies at once.

So all the people who think you're an apologist are wrong and you're right? Where did all of us who think this get that idea from then?

Don't use the term if you don't know what it means.

I used it appropriately. It was a hanging breaking ball that got knocked out of the park. Deal with it.

Get over what? I'm not saying they would sign anyone from the D-League but an NBA prospect.

Well, I know it pains you anytime the truth is spoken about the D-League.

I'm not all concerned about anything. You fundamentally misunderstand what I write. don't worry, you aren't the first.

You're extremely concerned. That's why you rush to the defense of the front office in any thread where you suspect someone might be questioning them. Worse yet, you have the audacity to deny this, even though you've done this literally hundreds upon hundreds of times.

Who said it excited me?

I did.

[ChumpDumper]

So all the people who think you're an apologist are wrong and you're right? Where did all of us who think this get that idea from then?

People can think whatever they want. Doesn't necessarily make them right.

I used it appropriately. It was a hanging breaking ball that got knocked out of the park. Deal with it.

Not at all. It was in no way a straw man.

Well, I know it pains you anytime the truth is spoken about the D-League.

What truth? The truth that a few of the players called up each year turn out to be serviceable NBA players like Danny Green?

That doesn't pain me at all.

You're extremely concerned. That's why you rush to the defense of the front office in any thread where you suspect someone might be questioning them. Worse yet, you have the audacity to deny this, even though you've done this literally hundreds upon hundreds of times.

Sorry, you misunderstand. Some people get really emotionally invested in this message board posting and take everything personally.

You are one of those people.

I did.

Well, you're wrong. not much else to be said.

That was easy.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, you can never really totally write off a young guy's chances until he actually hangs it up -- but say Da'Sean Butler continues to improve to the point where he's NBA ready. Would you accept an Anderson salary dump to accommodate him?


(it's a totally premature scenario, merely hypothetical)

You never answered this hypothetical, TD 21. I repeated it for you.

[TD 21]

People can think whatever they want. Doesn't necessarily make them right.

No, but when many think it (we can always start a poll to verify this), what are the odds that it isn't?

Not at all. It was in no way a straw man.

It was.

What truth? The truth that a few of the players called up each year turn out to be serviceable NBA players like Danny Green?

That doesn't pain me at all.

A few, meaning the vast majority aren't legit NBA prospects.

Sorry, you misunderstand. Some people get really emotionally invested in this message board posting and take everything personally.

You are one of those people.

Says the guy who spends as much time on here as anybody, is far and away the all-time leader in back and forth's and is closing in on 65, 000 posts.

I don't get emotionally invested or take anything personally at all. You've obviously misunderstood me.

[ChumpDumper]

No, but when many think it (we can always start a poll to verify this), what are the odds that it isn't?

If my internets characterization is that important to you, you can believe whatever you wish.

It was.

Show us all how it was.

A few, meaning the vast majority aren't legit NBA prospects.

I never said otherwise.

Says the guy who spends as much time on here as anybody, is far and away the all-time leader in back and forth's and is closing in on 65, 000 posts.

I admit, I do have fun trolling those who are take things too seriously.

I don't get emotionally invested or take anything personally at all. You've obviously misunderstood me.

You obviously get upset when someone disagrees with you or counters one of your arguments. It's OK. Lots of people do.

[ChumpDumper]

Did you miss it the first two times, TD 21?

Well, you can never really totally write off a young guy's chances until he actually hangs it up -- but say Da'Sean Butler continues to improve to the point where he's NBA ready. Would you accept an Anderson salary dump to accommodate him?


(it's a totally premature scenario, merely hypothetical)

[TD 21]

If my internets characterization is that important to you, you can believe whatever you wish.

Not nearly as important as my answering that hypothetical is to you.

Show us all how it was.

To those of us with a brain, it's self explanatory.

I never said otherwise.

But as you so often do, you insinuated it.

I admit, I do have fun trolling those who are take things too seriously.

I admit, I do have fun trolling those who are take things too seriously.

You obviously get upset when someone disagrees with you or counters one of your arguments. It's OK. Lots of people do.

Wrong again. I don't get upset at all, I enjoy a good debate.