Tonight Sean made a comment while Timmy had the ball in the post in the fourth quarter. He said something to the effect that the Spurs need to show the same respect to Tiago as they do to Timmy in the post. Sean saw that the Spurs were making a concerted effort to get the ball to Timmy (he did have the hot hand) and then made that comment about Tiago should get the same respect.
Do you feel that Tiago should be getting the same respect? That is, should we feed him in the same manner that we feed Timmy? Do you think that Tiago is getting enough respect considering his recent stats?
I ask because most times I see that Tiago show a ton of hustle, but doesn't get the same respect when he tries to post up. He'll set a couple screens and post deep (deeper than Timmy at times), but he doesn't see the ball. I don't think that Tiago becomes discouraged by this, as is evident by the stats he puts up. However, should Pop shift the focus to have Tiago start initiating the offensive sets more often?
I mean inside out basketball is more conducive to winning in the playoffs.
Quality post.
Yeah, I think Splitter definitely needs more touches. What's baffling is Pop will draw up plays specifically to get the ball to Splitter in the low block but the person who is supposed to feed him usually gives up on the play. I don't know if Splitter isn't doing a good enough job sealing off his man and offering a target to receive the pass, or if his teammates just aren't accustomed to getting him the ball. It's probably a mixture of both.
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I guess having a quality PG to back Parker might solve some of the problems. I'm very tired of seeing Tiago roll to the basket and Neal/Green/Parker (sometimes) cannot deliver the ball.
The Spurs have a lot of low iq and one dimensional players. RJ, Gary Neal and Bonner are atrocious passers and readers of the game. Unfortunately for Tiago he plays the majority of his minutes with these guys. Danny Green is really the only guy to me that seems to consistently look for Tiago in the post before jacking shots or giving up on the play.
Tiago's often on the court with shoot first players that have the green light as long as the energy level is there.
Hopefully TJ Ford and Manu Ginobili have been paying attention.
I've notice that, maybe due to matchups, Tiago can post his opponent deeper in the paint than Timmy nowadays. I see Timmy recieve the ball around 14-16ft away, but Tiago can get a few feet closer. That needs to be exploited (as well as Tiago's court awareness).
Really? Splitter is often wide open and Neal and others still prefer to try a contested circus shot rather than just pass him the ball.
Duncan lost weight and age probably has robbed some strength so those two things combine for why it's difficult for him to get good post positions these days.
I'm talking about straight 4-down-esque plays. Not pick-and-rolls or freelance penetrations.
As crazy as this may sound, I actually believe Splitter is better at sealing his man in the low block than Duncan is, at this point in his career. If nothing more than the fact that he usually does it so much more often.
In fact, I've actually seen Splitter seal his man on numerous occasions, on consecutive possessions, without ever seeing the ball. Of course, he's always there to try and clean up the garbage, off a missed perimeter shot.
I believe Sean is on point with him comment. Sean has also criticized the other players for not getting it back into Splitter on a re-post, after a pass out. Parker is usually the best at deliberately trying to get Splitter the ball. The other players? Not so much. Those other players absolutely MUST look to feed the post when Splitter is down there. They're just having too much success down there.
This is what i'm referring to. Splitter puts himself in great position to receive the ball in the post but never sees the ball. Instead, he'll have to give up the position due a screen being call (this frustrates me the most because gaining leverage is not something that is easy to do at this level). Subsequently, the guard will drive and shoot, or kick it out to someone out on the perimeter for a jumper. The point being that Splitter is not being rewarded enough for his effort and hustle.
I thought today was probably the first time that the team actually came out of a timeout in the 2nd quarter and the play called for posting Tiago. Probably borne out of necessity since we were bricking everything. I just think the Spurs are more accustomed to run flex and pick and roll with the bench, and so you see less inside-out game. Which is a shame.
I agree Tiago should be posted more. He doesn't have to finish every play, but today in the first half was an example where we really needed to go back to some basic plays like that and we didn't (except for the aforementioned time).
Ultimately Tiago has also been suffering from the fact that there's no point guard running offense with him. He has looked good with Tony in limited time out there, and also with TJ Ford. I'm sure he would also do well playing some pick and roll with Manu. It's stuff to look forward to.
Tiago definitely needs more touches down low within the run of the offense than he is seeing right now. He really only seems to be getting the ball on his own, or off dishes from a driver or the PnR. Whenever he is posting up he never gets fed the ball, and as y'all have said I'm just as baffled as you are.
When Tiago first got here last year, and to start off this season, he consistently looked awkward on offense and wasn't nearly as effective as he has been lately. He seemed to be trying to do all the things he was already good at, but it looked awkward as because he didn't have a clue how to apply his skills in a much different and much more physically challenging NBA atmosphere. Pop is definitely largely to blame for this being such a slow transition, as Splitter's lack of minutes over the past year and a half has definitely held him back, but Tiago has figured it out. He has played long enough to get the NBA game now, and has learned how to apply his skills on an NBA court with an increasingly impressive effectiveness. He really looks like he can be a player...that is if we let him.
Added to his much hyped scoring efficiency is the fact that Tiago is just showing his skills as an all around solid basketball player. He defends well both in the post and as an overall team defender. He takes charges and hustles, and he understands the flow of an offense and passes well within it. As Caeman pointed out the inside out game can really serve us well, especially when Splitter is on the court with three point shooters like Neal, Bonner, and (sometimes) Green. Shooters that, if working from the post, I definitely expect Tiago would be capable of finding. Sadly, as mystargtr pointed out, this isn't a very impressive group of play makers, and as we have all seen they just are not getting it to him for whatever reason. Even if Pop is running plays for him as TIMVP suggests, he really needs to emphasize getting it to Splitter a lot more. He deserves it and Pop needs to wake up and make him a bigger part of the picture while will still have time to gel as a squad and let him grow into a larger role.
I agree, once those two return our whole offense and a lot of our players will be better served. I'm sure Tiago in particular will be looking forward to it as well.
Is it just me or does TP have a tendency to call his own number (screen into a jump shot) way too often when the shotclock is under 10 seconds?
I don't mind the play necessarily, but I feel that maybe TP thinks that 10 seconds is not enough time to call a different play. He'll either call his number, takes the screen and shoots or he'll call the screen and run off of it and pass to Bonner or Jefferson for a 3 (elbow 3).
Maybe it's just me though but Tony needs to have more confidence that 10 seconds is more than enough time to run something down low. For example, that play at the end of the half when TP had 4 seconds. He ran down the length of the court and dished it to Anderson for a 3. He did that in 3 or 4 seconds. The point being that 10 seconds is more than enough time to start being selfish (maybe the wrong word, more like lazy or uninventive i guess with the playcalling).
Tiago is making great position a lot of the time. Nothing wrong with his ability to seal. He gets a nice wide stance happening making it hard for the defender to step around him and his core strength seems to have come out of nowhere because he is getting bounced off the block like I have seen in the past.
The art of post-passing is a very underrated one. I think a lot of the Spurs players just flat out aren't good at it. Neal and Jefferson in particular. I don't know if I've seen them feed Tiago at all - or even Blair, who can make great position at times and needs to be feed quickly and effectively so he can get a good shot off. Re-posting is very important as well and that's something I see basically none of from these Spurs.
Robert Horry was the best I've seen at feeding the post, faking the feed to get a better feed and he also spaced well to make any man doubling off of him pay. I think a number of the Spurs players could learn something by watching tapes of Horry.
Actually, I love when Parker decides NOT to pass it to Tiago. The reason is that Parker usually ends up with a a GREAT clean look at the basket. The reason is that it usually means that Parker just got a high percentage shot. But make no mistake, Parker definitely looks for him before making a decision. Either Parker gets to the paint and finishes or he dishes it to Tiago for high percentage shot. Rarely doesn't it end up being a kickout/reset or a poor percentage possession.
The problem is definitely playing with a lack of ball handlers. Pops draws plays for him where he's isolated on the left side of the court and his teammates see him calling for it, but for some reason.. it just doesn't happen. Sean was frustrated in the 2nd too, saying something to the effect of "Give him the ball damn it!"
With a guy like Neal running plays, its tough to get anything kind of set play going (motion offense usually ensues with green and neal in the backcourt). When Neal decides to drive the ball, he HAS to put up that floater (or if we're lucky he gets all the way to the hole) because he doesn't have the ability to pass it out. If he tries to pass then chalk up a turnover for us.
The past few game Splitter has been stuck with Neal and Green doing most of the ball handling, therefore his PnR game with Parker (that was so successful during Splitter's infamous 75% streak) is rare. Splitter should benefit greatly when Manu comes back (goes without saying because everyone will benefit) and TJ as well.
Tony has the best chance out of anyone on the team to create his own shots with under 8 seconds left on the clock. The rest of the players are generally pretty one-dimensional in the fact they can't create there own shot. I've been pleased with Neal lately with his ability to do this, but still, I rather Tony creating then the Spurs playing hot-potato with the ball around the perimeter.
I also think that when Tony does that, the rest of the team kind of knows it's happening so they know they can concentrate on getting back in transition rather than getting in bad spots on the floor trying to spot up or cut.
I couldn't agree with you more. I might be wrong but I think Kawhi is capable of being a good option when it comes to delivering the ball into the post. He has long arms and is partial to that low bounce pass that he utilizes often. I think he can eventually be good at setting up post players.
I can see your reasoning. I wonder what TP would be capable of when it comes to assist numbers if he had the multi-dimensional players around him to pass to even when the shotclock goes under 10 seconds.
Its tough to accept but the Spurs really need to start viewing Tiago as a primary low post threat going forward and give him the touches to develop. He has been converting at a rate and as you said his success can't continue to be ignored. Especially in the regular season these minutes and touches needed to be shifted more towards Tiago. It doesn't help Timmy or the team to lean on him as the number one guy down low all season and wear him out while a more efficient (at the moment) option with younger legs and a need for minutes can't get more than 20 minutes a game. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way on the Timmy is done wagon, I wanna burn that wagon. He's over the hill but as the man proved tonight and has at times this season, there's still some Tim Duncan left in the tank. If we can keep him fresh come playoff time, get Manu back in shape, keep Tony healthy, AND have an unleashed Tiago on a roll we could be a force. But it starts with trusting Splitter to fill enough of Timmy's void to allow the veteran GOAT less time on the court while giving the Brazilian more.
Playing Neal extended minutes does that to you. He doesn't feed Splitter
its fkn horse how they dont set plays or pass it down low to splitter when he gets really good position downlow, its the next bounce and backin up is killin him, but he usually scores when the ball goes into the basket
while blair gets touches and just hogs it into the lane...
during every game, Sean Elliott almost always says the spurs are under-utilizing Splitter
I have no idea how come most of you guys have so much love on Tigao. man Timmy is a 14 time all stars and 3 time MVPs. he has been one of the biggest stars in the NBA since he was selected by the spurs in 1997. no one in the league can be compared with him except for guys like kobe ,Kg and Dirk. Even though he is getting older and not so that Timmy has all the respects without a doubt.
When you have the ball and play alongside a post player like Duncan. you would pass the ball to Duncan all because of his reliance and experience.
All I said is Tigao is just a so-so player and yes sometimes he works so hard and play some good balls. However, that is a different stroy comparing to Timmy.so Tiago should not be getting the same respect.
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