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  1. #76
    O & 44!!! Now, go back &
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
    Post Count
    35,170
    "Kobe’s defense, to be accurate, has faltered in recent years, despite his presence on the league’s all-defensive team. The voters have been seduced by his remarkable athleticism and spectacular steals, but he hasn’t played sound, fundamental defense.

    "Mesmerized by the ball, he’s gambled too frequently, putting us out of position, forcing rotations that leave a man wide open, and doesn’t keep his feet on the ground.”

    - Phil Jackson
    Was this before OR after he came back beggin' for his job?

    tee, hee.

  2. #77
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
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    27,061
    Was this before OR after he came back beggin' for his job?

    tee, hee.
    Jeannie Buss toe tapped him into taking that job. Had nothing to do with that boy.

  3. #78
    Veteran
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    Dallas Mavericks
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    6,020
    Giuseppe uses the word "job", paradox!

  4. #79
    World Class Landon Donofag's Avatar
    My Team
    Dallas Mavericks
    Post Count
    412
    Obsessed.

  5. #80
    5-5 Deuce Bigalow's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
    Post Count
    2,147
    Players who've had long careers, their lower numbers toward the end bringing down the overall average. You understand the concept of aging, don't you?

    20th
    except they all had their longest playoff runs during their prime

    This mad hater who posts on Kobe 24/7
    When you have dedicated haters like this, you know you're doing something right

  6. #81
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
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    42,293
    Again, career PER is improper usage of the statistic..

    It's a flawed method of interpreting PER..

  7. #82
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
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    27,061
    except they all had their longest playoff runs during their prime

    This mad hater who posts on Kobe 24/7
    When you have dedicated haters like this, you know you're doing something right
    Are you in' re ed? I'm not referring to a single playoff run. I'm talking about the overall career average, which would be brought down by said player's last few years when they posted much lower numbers (see Bird's last 3 years or Kareem's or Hakeem's).

    Do me a favor and post Kareem's PER playoff average before 1983 (when he was still considered the "man.")

  8. #83
    Dragon style JamStone's Avatar
    My Team
    Detroit Pistons
    Post Count
    22,198
    If you do consider a player's later seasons in his career, should you also not consider Kobe's first 3 seasons (even arguably his 4th season) in the league when he wasn't a starter and/or a primary option on the team? Kobe's first 2-3 seasons in the league are equivalent to a declining player at the end of his career because Kobe wasn't given the minutes and touches an elite player would get in those first few years.

  9. #84
    5-5 Deuce Bigalow's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
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    2,147
    Are you in' re ed? I'm not referring to a single playoff run. I'm talking about the overall career average, which would be brought down by said player's last few years when they posted much lower numbers (see Bird's last 3 years or Kareem's or Hakeem's).

    Do me a favor and post Kareem's PER playoff average before 1983 (when he was still considered the "man.")
    Kobe vs Larry in their prime

    best 5 Playoff PER years

    Kobe
    26.8
    25.0
    25.0
    24.7
    24.1

    Bird
    26.3
    23.9
    21.8
    20.9
    20.7

    according to PER, Kobe > Bird

  10. #85
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
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    77,863
    Harlem is correct here.

  11. #86
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
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    27,061
    Again, career PER is improper usage of the statistic..

    It's a flawed method of interpreting PER..
    How so when the league average is set at 15 across all eras? One of the novel things about PER is that it lets us compare players across eras who played at different paces. I know the impression a lot of posters have of me is that I'm a fanboy of the stat, but I find it utterly useless comparing per game stats when a player's statistical output (or lackthereof) is often very dependent on the system they play under.

    Currently it's the only catchall stat that adjusts for pace.

  12. #87
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    27,061
    Kobe vs Larry in their prime

    best 5 Playoff PER years

    Kobe
    26.8
    25.0
    25.0
    24.7
    24.1

    Bird
    26.3
    23.9
    21.8
    20.9
    20.7

    according to PER, Kobe > Bird
    Problem?

    Some, even many, would take Kobe over Bird. So what does this prove?

  13. #88
    Dryer than Kunta's ankles Ashy Larry's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
    Post Count
    3,803
    Brutal win ..... up big and gave it away. Great finish by Bryant. Jam Stone is right on point. People run up in here with their assholes leaking. Fix that before someone slips and fall on the wet spots .........

    Lakers still need to fix that offense because this only giving up 90 or 84 points to win by 2 or lose by 6 is bull .

  14. #89
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
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    27,061
    If you do consider a player's later seasons in his career, should you also not consider Kobe's first 3 seasons (even arguably his 4th season) in the league when he wasn't a starter and/or a primary option on the team? Kobe's first 2-3 seasons in the league are equivalent to a declining player at the end of his career because Kobe wasn't given the minutes and touches an elite player would get in those first few years.
    We can eliminate his first 2 seasons. By his 3rd, though, he was clearly the Lakers second best player. Averaged 20, 7, 5 in the '99 playoffs. So to throw that season out because he "wasn't a starter," would be intellectually dishonest.

  15. #90
    5-5 Deuce Bigalow's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
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    2,147
    what is your top 10 alltime midnight...lmao this gonna be good

  16. #91
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    27,061
    what is your top 10 alltime midnight...lmao this gonna be good
    Kobe's not in it.

  17. #92
    5-5 Deuce Bigalow's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
    Post Count
    2,147

    knew it

  18. #93
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    27,061
    Why is that humorous?

  19. #94
    5-5 Deuce Bigalow's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
    Post Count
    2,147
    Why is that humorous?
    You live in a cave?
    Kobe's made top 10 a while ago

  20. #95
    5-5 Deuce Bigalow's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
    Post Count
    2,147
    post your top 10, you're a basketball genius

  21. #96
    Dryer than Kunta's ankles Ashy Larry's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
    Post Count
    3,803
    I only see maybe two point guards in the top ten: Johnson and Robertson
    Two shooting guards: Jordan and Bryant
    One small forward: Bird
    One Power Forward: Duncan
    The rest centers: Russell, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal and Olajuwon

    Thats more or less the top ten with one player being left out...........

  22. #97
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Post Count
    29,609
    post your top 10, you're a basketball genius

    Jordan
    Kareem
    Magic
    Bird
    Russel
    Wilt
    Shaq
    Duncan
    Olajuwon
    Robertson

  23. #98
    5-5 Deuce Bigalow's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
    Post Count
    2,147
    Jordan
    Kareem
    Magic
    Bird
    Russel
    Wilt
    Shaq
    Duncan
    Olajuwon
    Robertson
    Why is Robertson over Kobe?

  24. #99
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
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    77,863
    Kobe is a fringe top 10 player IMO. That's not Kobe hate, but he's not locked in like a Duncan/Jordan/Shaq/Magic...I don't have him in there, but I wouldn't argue too much if someone had him at 9 or 10.

  25. #100
    5-5 Deuce Bigalow's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
    Post Count
    2,147
    Kobe is a fringe top 10 player IMO. That's not Kobe hate, but he's not locked in like a Duncan/Jordan/Shaq/Magic...I don't have him in there, but I wouldn't argue too much if someone had him at 9 or 10.
    How is Duncan locked in, but Kobe isn't

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