'05 Revisited?

[DAF86]

Guys like Neal, Green and even Bonner have more trade value than RJ and Blair right now.

[phxspurfan]

Guys like Neal, Green and even Bonner have more trade value than RJ and Blair right now.

Regardless of their recent struggles, I think Jefferson and Blair have more name brand value and can help put butts in seats for a struggling team. We all know the casual NBA fan doesn't care about teamwork and crap, they just want to go out and say they saw <insert mainstream name here> play live.

[DAF86]

Everybody knows now that RJ is an overpaid scrub, Corey Joseph has more trade value than him right now, and yes I'm beign serious.

[DPG21920]

I'm supposed to know you're on your phone & what mood you're in as to how much to type?

Probably easier to just save your whole response, including the initial disagreement, until you have time to back it.

Relax, girl. You aren't supposed to know Im on the phone. I just find it funny when people get all serious and uppity with the "you have a point there" & "please explain..." internet lingo. Not that critical. I even do the same thing I'm laughing at myself ocassionally.

You have been around so you know I'll answer questions and back what I say, I just thought I'd write a quick response since you quoted me.

[DPG21920]

DPG is consulting bleacherreport.com and timvp's post history in order to spend the next several hours copy-and-pasting a hopefully coherent response

Scro, are you going to come as this troll account when we have a gtg in d-town?

[K-State Spur]

Relax, girl.

I see what you did there.

[will_spurs]

Everybody knows now that RJ is an overpaid scrub, Corey Joseph has more trade value than him right now, and yes I'm beign serious.

One team's problem is another team's treasure. RJ will serve his purpose when he gets amnestied, and you will see that he finds a team pretty quickly after that, just not at the same price.

[phxspurfan]

One team's problem is another team's treasure. RJ will serve his purpose when he gets amnestied, and you will see that he finds a team pretty quickly after that, just not at the same price.

This. I'm pretty sure RJ can still fill it up if you give him the ball and let him work in a free flowing offense. At least for awhile, while RC drives away counting his millions!

[DAF86]

This. I'm pretty sure RJ can still fill it up if you give him the ball and let him work in a free flowing offense. At least for awhile, while RC drives away counting his millions!

Teams wil take a risk with him but not at his current price.

[DPG21920]

I see what you did there.

I hope you know I was joking.

Green only has filler value.

Blair's injury concerns mean you'd have to trade him below his actual production value.

Neal might be the one that makes the most sense. But he's another guy who probably has more value to the Spurs than he could net in a deal. You'd have to get back a pretty stout player because moving Neal could single handedly convert the bench from a strength to a weakness.

Kawhi does have value - but can't move him unless it's part of a blockbuster deal (and he doesn't have THAT much value). If you trade him for a big, you've solved one issue by creating a larger one elsewhere (versatile perimeter defender).

Ok, back to this. To preface everything, we first have to look at the target player for these players. When I said what I did, it was with the understanding this wasn't for a blockbuster deal, but more a player in the Amir Johnson range.

I agree somewhat with what you say if you are speaking strictly "contracts" because many of the players I listed are productive role players on what is arguably the best bench in the league on really cheap contracts. So in that regard, most of them have limited value.

Where I disagree is with regards to their basketball impact and attractiveness to other teams. I don't believe Green only has filler value (I'm assuming you meant that not with regards to his contract, but talent). I think Green is a talented guy and even if what you say is somewhat true (that these players are more valuable to the Spurs than other teams due to the system) there are examples of teams paying Spurs role players well and them not panning out because they seem to value Spurs players (likely a symptom of the respect the Spurs FO garners around the league). A guy like Green, whom the Spurs are high on and made it known, will have value to other teams. Other teams value the Spurs ability to scout very highly (which is part of the logic why I disagree on most of what you said) and while you may quote Danny's average's, his per minute production is solid and he has developed two critical skills: 3 point shooting (he was always pretty good) and defense (the merits of how good or where he excels withstanding; he's a solid defender). Even though we know a player like Green may be more valuable to the Spurs, other teams still find them attractive because they did well with the Spurs.

I don't think Blair's injury concerns are a major consideration at all, at least with regards to a trade right now. He's missed one game only in his career, has performed pretty damn well on both offense and rebounding and posted above average stats on most every advanced stat. I believe the fact he's played 2 years, going on 3, with no health issues, alleviates many health concerns and as much as he might not be a great fit for the Spurs, he is a productive player with room to improve and could be an attractive piece to another team IMO.

With Neal/Kawhi, I have them in somewhat of the same boat (Kawhi being more valuable however) in that you only move them if you get a big back that gives you by all logical accounts a legit shot to contend. I am of the opinion that if a player like that becomes available (thinking Milsap, Al Jefferson, Varejao before hurt) you should not hesitate to move either of them. Both Neal and Kawhi have very solid value because of friendly contracts (which hurts and helps the Spurs) and because of talent. Just because we don't want to give them up or would require more to do so, doesn't make them any less valuable assets the Spurs have. I also disagree that moving Kawhi for a big would create a larger hole. Spurs have more depth on the wings than ever before and the hole at PF is more glaring than the wings if Kawhi was gone for a quality big in return. If it's for a big like Amir, then no, IMO the short term gain isn't worth it. But with the depth the Spurs have at wing/on the bench in general, combined with the fact we don't know if Kawhi will be ready for the playoffs and even get minutes, the Spurs have to move him for a big if that's what it takes to give themselves a legit shot.

[K-State Spur]

Fair enough - I'm not budging from my initial stance, but you do raise some good points.

[TD 21]

The more I think about it, the more I think Amir Johnson would not only be a good fit (as others have said as well), but a good target. With Jonas Valanciunas coming over likely next year, I can see him being the odd man out and I think/hope the Spurs make some sort of run at him.

I still maintain he's their best bet and that the Raptors are the one team I could see taking Jefferson. What if the Raptors insisted on the 1st being included, with Blair and Jefferson. Would you still do it? I'd do it, so long as they threw in their 2nd or Alabi.

I know it's a deep draft, but I really don't care about the 1st this season. This organization has quan y of young assets as is (and Johnson is still young). Not just the guys on the team, but overseas. Yeah, they're projects, but Bertans, Richards and to a lesser extent, De Colo, give them three potential NBA players. The odds of them getting a markedly better prospect than that picking somewhere in the mid 20's aren't great. And even if they can, I don't care. Not if they can improve their chances at a championship, while not mortgaging their future. That should be the goal.

Unfortunately, I don't have confidence in them pulling off a trade like that. I think they'll read too much into the recent surge defensively, overvalue the chemistry/corporate knowledge of this team (especially because of the condensed schedule/lack of practice time), stand pat -- other than maybe trading Anderson for a 2nd or a depth big -- and hope that a Turiaf or someone of that ilk springs free as a post deadline buyout.

timvp, would you do that if the trade was for a big who may not necessarily be a whole lot better than Blair, but would probably be a better fit? It could be Johnson, Thomas (his contract would probably scare them more than his personality), Thompson, Morris, whoever. Of course you would if it's a clear upgrade; anyone would. But they're not getting a Varejao, Jefferson, etc.

[DPG21920]

I still maintain he's their best bet and that the Raptors are the one team I could see taking Jefferson. What if the Raptors insisted on the 1st being included, with Blair and Jefferson. Would you still do it? I'd do it, so long as they threw in their 2nd or Alabi.

I know it's a deep draft, but I really don't care about the 1st this season. This organization has quan y of young assets as is (and Johnson is still young). Not just the guys on the team, but overseas. Yeah, they're projects, but Bertans, Richards and to a lesser extent, De Colo, give them three potential NBA players. The odds of them getting a markedly better prospect than that picking somewhere in the mid 20's aren't great. And even if they can, I don't care. Not if they can improve their chances at a championship, while not mortgaging their future. That should be the goal.

Unfortunately, I don't have confidence in them pulling off a trade like that. I think they'll read too much into the recent surge defensively, overvalue the chemistry/corporate knowledge of this team (especially because of the condensed schedule/lack of practice time), stand pat -- other than maybe trading Anderson for a 2nd or a depth big -- and hope that a Turiaf or someone of that ilk springs free as a post deadline buyout.

timvp, would you do that if the trade was for a big who may not necessarily be a whole lot better than Blair, but would probably be a better fit? It could be Johnson, Thomas (his contract would probably scare them more than his personality), Thompson, Morris, whoever. Of course you would if it's a clear upgrade; anyone would. But they're not getting a Varejao, Jefferson, etc.

There is absolutely no question I give up this years first rounder if it means you can get a PF and dump RJ. That's easy IMO. I don't think they will take RJ, but the Spurs shouldn't need to force that in order to get Amir.

[TD 21]

There is absolutely no question I give up this years first rounder if it means you can get a PF and dump RJ. That's easy IMO. I don't think they will take RJ, but the Spurs shouldn't need to force that in order to get Amir.

I think it's a no brainer too. Maybe they wouldn't take Jefferson, but I think they're most likely to out of any team. The Spurs would have to force that to get Johnson, otherwise they couldn't make it work financially.

[DPG21920]

I would imagine Bonner + first rounder should be good enough for Amir (plus filler like JA).

[HarlemHeat37]

Amir Johnson isn't worth Blair and a first..I'm not a fan of Blair's, and I'd like to see Amir with the Spurs, but that's ty value IMO(I'm also aware that this may be the Spurs' last chance to content)..

Spurs wouldn't need to give up both Blair and a 1st..I haven't looked at the salaries, but the Raptors would take Blair, without the 1st(possibly including a 3rd team..again, I haven't looked at the salaries)..

[DPG21920]

It's not about the third team because TOR is under the cap by 4M or so I believe, but the Spurs couldn't bring in Amir's 5.5M without sending at least ~4.5M out.

[DPG21920]

I don't love Amir's contract considering Tim is off the books next year, Blair is only partially guaranteed and the Spurs can amnesty RJ. That is a lot of flexibility in the off-season, but they need to make a run now.

[HarlemHeat37]

Spurs won't take the risk..

Any potential acquisition must be a player that Popovich will trust, especially if X player has a significant contract..

Amir Johnson is an erratic, inconsistent player that doesn't know the system..Pop would not trust him, therefore, I doubt they would absorb his contract..

If the Spurs make a move, it'll be for a veteran big..McDyess is possible, if he has any interest IMO..Turiaf is another possibility, which I wouldn't mind..

[SpurNation]

The question is this: If all the front office can do is acquire someone who may not necessarily be a whole lot better than Blair -- but has the potential be a better fit -- should they pull the trigger, even if it significantly eats into their off season cap space? Or should they value the chemistry/corporate knowledge of this team, not make that type of a trade and hope they can sign a decent big who get's bought out post trade deadline? And what do you think they will do?

To me, it's a no brainer. They've got to go all out to pull off a trade that fixes the myriad issues with the big rotation (Blair) and clears out the logjam on the wings (Jefferson) and if it takes including their 1st or a future 1st that goes on to become a lottery pick, so be it.

Agreed with trying to make a trade. Disagree at all cost as highlighted in bold.

IF a trade were to affect the bolded areas...it would need to be for somebody that isn't just...

acquire someone who may not necessarily be a whole lot better than Blair

[TD 21]

I would imagine Bonner + first rounder should be good enough for Amir.

I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work financially. They could easily fix that, either by including Anderson, or whatever big they have on a 10-day at the time. But the reality is, the Spurs aren't trading Bonner, unless it's in a blockbuster, no brainer type trade.

Harlem, you're forgetting about Jefferson. The 1st would be for getting them to take him. I actually think they might do it without a 1st, though. I'm just asking, would it still be a no brainer if they did insist on the 1st? For me, it would be. I don't care about overpaying. That's the whole point of this thread. Technically, if you look at the Rose trade, the Spurs overpaid. But no one cares, because they improved their team and won the championship that season. They also got out of a bloated long term contract in the process.

[TDMVPDPOY]

This. I'm pretty sure RJ can still fill it up if you give him the ball and let him work in a free flowing offense. At least for awhile, while RC drives away counting his millions!

he hasnt attacked the rim this season so far...

[DPG21920]

I agree, but he is one of the more viable candidates if the Spurs are still in win-now mode. Trades will be extremely tough to come by because of the contracts on the Spurs either being really small, or bad like RJ.

[DPG21920]

I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work financially. They could easily fix that, either by including Anderson, or whatever big they have on a 10-day at the time. But the reality is, the Spurs aren't trading Bonner, unless it's in a blockbuster, no brainer type trade.

Harlem, you're forgetting about Jefferson. The 1st would be for getting them to take him. I actually think they might do it without a 1st, though. I'm just asking, would it still be a no brainer if they did insist on the 1st? For me, it would be. I don't care about overpaying. That's the whole point of this thread. Technically, if you look at the Rose trade, the Spurs overpaid. But no one cares, because they improved their team and won the championship that season. They also got out of a bloated long term contract in the process.

Ya, I made the edit on the filler when I posted, but the point remains. I don't see why you think Bonner is untouchable unless in a blockbuster. I think if they can get a better starter, they will move either Blair or Bonner because Tiago can cover up for which ever one is left.

I don't think a first rounder will be enough to take on RJ. Maybe I'm wrong, because Amir is owed 17.5M (after this year) and RJ is only owed 21M (and he comes off the books a year earlier) so maybe that first rounder is worth it.

[HarlemHeat37]

I would make the trade, if I believed Pop would trust Amir Johnson..

I'd be shocked if it actually occurred, though..

Both Blair and Amir are low-IQ, erratic players..however, Blair has been learning this system for years, and has developed chemistry with Ginobili, Duncan, etc..Popovich can tolerate Blair's mistakes, because he knows the system and has the chemistry..

It would not be the case for Johnson, Pop would probably turn to small ball, following Amir's first mistake..

There's virtually no chance of Bonner being traded for a young role player IMO..Pop isn't giving up on Bonner..