Grades: Spurs @ Pistons - Feb. 14

[CGD]

Sadly, I am unable to watch many games so I vote for the longer version please. I've seen the shorter version at other sites, and it just doesn't capture what went on.

[timvp]

When Manu sucks for 3 quarters and finaly is a hero in the clutch everybody is amazed/in love... when it's Tony, it's "WTF where you doing for 3 quarters???...)

I actually agree with that. However, it's mostly due to positions. An asleep shooting guard doesn't really hurt anything, especially if others are playing well. But a point guard who isn't being aggressive, especially one like Parker who the Spurs depend on so much to break down the defense, simply can't blend into the background. When Parker lets up even a little bit, it becomes obvious quickly.

I wanted to give Parker a better grade but considering that he had six points on 3-for-11 shooting in the game's first 46 minutes against the team in the NBA who is the worst at defending opposing point guards, I just couldn't.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

In depth coverage is awesome. I'd rather wait a bit and get extra juicy info as it is always worth the wait

I was incredibly annoyed with Pop's coaching in the fourth (too much Bonner and Jefferson) but with about 2 minutes left he righted the ship.

timvp, while it may be tough enough just to get Pop to play more Duncan/Tiago together, do you think playing them at the same time to close out a tough game is tyoo risky at this point? I hated Bonner closing out the game but I also figured it wasn't a good time for Pop to push the Tiago/Duncan experiment when the Spurs just needed to escape with the win.

[Muser]

Pop knows what he has when it comes to RJ, Bonner and Blair. He knows he has weak minded individuals who would fold up and wither away if he ever benched them (RJ and Blair). So he would rather stroke their egos a bit instead of forcing tough love on them like he does with other players on the team.

I understand it but it also ticks me off. Psychology plays a big part in being a coach I guess.

Good point, people complain about Pop but for the most part he's a damn elite coach.

[timvp]

Alright, I'll keep the comprehensive version. I didn't know whether or not SpursTalk just wanted a watered down version that could be written faster ... but it looks like I got the answer. Thanks

[timvp]

timvp, while it may be tough enough just to get Pop to play more Duncan/Tiago together, do you think playing them at the same time to close out a tough game is tyoo risky at this point? I hated Bonner closing out the game but I also figured it wasn't a good time for Pop to push the Tiago/Duncan experiment when the Spurs just needed to escape with the win.

Tbh, as much of a known choker Bonner is and as soft as he was playing, I agreed with Pop going with Bonner in that situation. The Spurs were desperate to stop the bleeding and going with a group that has a ton of experience together (Duncan, Bonner, Jefferson, Ginobili and Parker) was a good way to limit mistakes. While I almost always prefer Bonner and RJ on the bench, in this particular situation I thought limiting mistakes was very important -- and for all of Bonner and RJ's faults, they don't make many mistakes.

With the Pistons one big play away from really taking control of the game, it wasn't a good time for experimentation.









That said, if Pop had previously built up the chemistry of Splitter with the starting unit, it wouldn't be an experiment. But that's a rant for another day . . .

[GSH]

Question: Does the SpursTalk populace prefer comprehensive grades like the above post that takes longer to put together ... or would do you prefer a less in-depth version that would be posted quicker following games?

Thank you in advance for your input

I prefer the comprehensive grades. Of course, I also prefer to drive a Ferrari - but the cost is a bit high. You usually throw in some nuggets like this being the first time since January 17 that Blair has scored in double figures two games in a row. Those things add a lot to the commentary, but they are also time consuming as to dig out. Like I said, I prefer the comprehensive grades. But I'm not the one doing the work after every game.

I will say that, as far as I am aware, this is the only place that fans of any team can find something like this after every game. And it shows in the number of people who wait for it before going to bed. We're spoiled. And I'm pretty sure that even the people who say that they don't mind a shortened format will feel a little withdrawal if you go that route.

[timvp]

Is that based on expectations for a recovering Manu?

Yes, obviously. Manu wasn't really in shape to begin the season ... so add in the time off from the broken hand and it's understandable that he wouldn't be 100% in his second game back. He's probably not even 50% right now.

But for barely being able to move, he was pretty damn helpful.

[Old School 44]

Nice post as always! I like your posts just the way they are!

As others have pointed out, I thought Tony should have at least got a B for his clutch play in the fourth. I like that he took it strong to the basket vs. shooting jumpers.

Is it true Manu still has screws in his hand? If so, do they stay in the rest of the season or do they come out before? If they come out before, does he miss any additional games?

[timvp]

Is it true Manu still has screws in his hand? If so, do they stay in the rest of the season or do they come out before? If they come out before, does he miss any additional games?

He has four screws in his hand and they stay there the rest of his life.

[said7]

How stupid is Ben Gordon. His teammate is writhing in pain on the floor and instead of calling timeout he fires a 3. Not to mention his late technical. Guy is a chucker scrub.

[Pauleta14]

I actually agree with that. However, it's mostly due to positions. An asleep shooting guard doesn't really hurt anything, especially if others are playing well. But a point guard who isn't being aggressive, especially one like Parker who the Spurs depend on so much to break down the defense, simply can't blend into the background. When Parker lets up even a little bit, it becomes obvious quickly.

I wanted to give Parker a better grade but considering that he had six points on 3-for-11 shooting in the game's first 46 minutes against the team in the NBA who is the worst at defending opposing point guards, I just couldn't.

It's fine, I wasn't "mad" or anything, just didn't get why so much was expected from him FOR THIS GAME especialy , considering Manu was back and I expected Tony to be less agressive or at least not one of the "focal point"...

The reason you gave me is very interesting in the sense that you admit that Tony's role/involvement in much more important during THE WHOLE game than it is for Manu or any other player.
So if Tony has the toughest job in the team, he should be graded taking that factor into acount, not only "what he is capable of"...

I hope I'm clear, I just mean that you should take into acount what's REALLY needed by Tony for games like that, don't tell me you expected him to give his best on the first game of a btob, against a bad team, with Manu returning...

Anyway, thanks again for the great job you do on this forum, always interesting and entertaining!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Something I took away that was interesting during the game that the cameras might not have caught: The Spurs had to shoot a tech and the entire team was looking to Manu to shoot it, he waved them off and said he couldn't. That isn't a good sign.

Does everyone realizehow screwed the team and manu's career are if Manu has lost shooting ability with than pin in his hand

[EVAY]

Is that based on expectations for a recovering Manu? Otherwise it's a C at best. It's ok to admit that Manu is playing subpar right now, he has a legitimate excuse.



So Parker being clutch is further evidence of Manu's legendary will to win. Ok, get it

BTW I couldn't help but notice that Parker's FG% has been going down a lot in the last couple of games, so I looked up this stat:
- FG% with Manu = 38.82%
- FG% w/o Manu = 47.08%

It looks like Parker isn't sure what his role is any more with Manu back in the mix.

Which brings me to...



It looks like everything is too easy for Pop, so his modus operandi right now seems to be first to dig himself into a hole, and second to see if he can manage to get out of it. The funny part being that we could have been afraid that Manu coming back might affect KL or Green's game, but it apparently seems to affect Parker the most.

This. Thank you.

[bus driver]

i like these reports
but the past few games you have been hard on green with something like a C-, C. Glad to see he got a B today. i think he deserves at least a B for the past few weeks just on his hustle. that is my 2 cents

[Mal]

This is how Manu is valueable. He didn`t provide points, but he managed to help his team with every other aspect of the game.

He still needs some time, to get in his game rythm. But it is always better to have him not scoring, than him not playing at all.

[Mal]

BTW I couldn't help but notice that Parker's FG% has been going down a lot in the last couple of games, so I looked up this stat:
- FG% with Manu = 38.82%
- FG% w/o Manu = 47.08%

It looks like Parker isn't sure what his role is any more with Manu back in the mix.
l

Maybe that`s why Pop decide to put Manu back to bench ? So Parker could run offense in his style for a while. Guess Spurs will benefit more with Manu and Parker playing less together than it is necessary.

[Blake]

I don't give the Pistons credit for making a comeback when one of their big baskets was a stupid Ben Wallace 3 pointer.

The Spurs took their foot (feet) off the gas and got away from what got them the big lead against a very inferior Detroit team.

Should have been an easy 20 point win.

[Cane]

Oh man, looking at the few Pistons fans that are left and their emotional posts about last night's game is pretty funny. Spurs have caused some butthurt to other fanbases and this wasn't even Detroit's game thread http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...?f=6&t=1161086 This shouldn't be entertaining, but somehow it is

Anyway as for the grades, I don't care if they're comprehensive or not as long as they're there, and as long as timvp is around to reply.

As for the game, damn Pistons vs Spurs is never pretty, but that was some uggglly ass basketball in the end. I still can't believe that Wallace not only hit a 3, but that they left him on the court during crunch time. The Pistons basically wanted to lose by doing that, and with Gordon's untimely clutch technical, it really seemed like they were tanking the game even though they were still kind of competing at the same time

[spurspokesman]

Question: Does the SpursTalk populace prefer comprehensive grades like the above post that takes longer to put together ... or would do you prefer a less in-depth version that would be posted quicker following games?

Thank you in advance for your input

Comprehensive. Keep up the swell work.

[spurspokesman]

Question: Does the SpursTalk populace prefer comprehensive grades like the above post that takes longer to put together ... or would do you prefer a less in-depth version that would be posted quicker following games?

Thank you in advance for your input

Comprehensive. Keep up the swell work. Always good to see a person back up there sentiments.

[GSH]

Before you go into too much detail about who screwed up last night, consider this. The Spurs lost that lead in just 3 minutes of play. The lineups on the floor when it happened were Parker, Green, Leonard, Bonner, Splitter and Neal, Green, Jefferson, Bonner, Duncan. So you can't blame it all on one group of players.

It's pretty simple. The Pistons dialed up their defensive effort, a few calls went against the Spurs, and for just those few minutes, the Pistons scored at a 220-point game pace. Also during that time, the Spurs offense went totally stagnant. They wound up taking mostly taking desperation shots, late in the shot clock. To be more specific, their shots were put up at 26, 21, 24, 19, and 23 seconds into the clock. (The one non-desperation shot at 19 seconds was where Duncan got his arms almost ripped off by Wallace, and then got elbowed in the eye.)

We're talking 3 minutes, from 10:44 to 7:47. During that time, Detroit got 2 and-1's plus two 3-pointers from guys who aren't good 3-point shooters. There was also a jump ball that Jefferson "won" but hit out of bounds. And there was a possession where Tiago blocked a shot by Ben Gordon, 22 seconds into the shot clock - but the ball went out of bounds and back to Detroit, and Ben Freaking Wallace hit his 7th career 3-pointer. That was a very good defensive possession, ending in disaster.

In short, it was something of a perfect storm - for 3 whole minutes. Before that, the Spurs kicked Detroits collective asses. After that, even though the Pistons had confidence, you didn't really have the sense that they were going to be able to win the game.

So how did the Pistons defense get the best of the Spurs for those 3 minutes? My opinion is that it came down to two things.
1. The Spurs quit moving without the ball.
2. The Pistons were doing something that has been making me crazy this year, all over the NBA. (Not just against the Spurs.) They were "hedging" out around the 3P line. Only the hedges consist of actually putting a body on the ball-handler and physically shoving him toward mid-court. And at the same time, they were getting into the passing lanes to the guys sitting still in the corners.

I don't blame the Pistons for doing it. But I do blame the NBA for letting the practice get out of hand this year. A hedge is a hedge - but a shove, even if done with the body, is still a shove. But I blame the Spurs players the most, for sitting on their asses and not doing anything to help out the ball-handlers.

[EVAY]

Before you go into too much detail about who screwed up last night, consider this. The Spurs lost that lead in just 3 minutes of play. The lineups on the floor when it happened were Parker, Green, Leonard, Bonner, Splitter and Neal, Green, Jefferson, Bonner, Duncan. So you can't blame it all on one group of players.

It's pretty simple. The Pistons dialed up their defensive effort, a few calls went against the Spurs, and for just those few minutes, the Pistons scored at a 220-point game pace. Also during that time, the Spurs offense went totally stagnant. They wound up taking mostly taking desperation shots, late in the shot clock. To be more specific, their shots were put up at 26, 21, 24, 19, and 23 seconds into the clock. (The one non-desperation shot at 19 seconds was where Duncan got his arms almost ripped off by Wallace, and then got elbowed in the eye.)

We're talking 3 minutes, from 10:44 to 7:47. During that time, Detroit got 2 and-1's plus two 3-pointers from guys who aren't good 3-point shooters. There was also a jump ball that Jefferson "won" but hit out of bounds. And there was a possession where Tiago blocked a shot by Ben Gordon, 22 seconds into the shot clock - but the ball went out of bounds and back to Detroit, and Ben Freaking Wallace hit his 7th career 3-pointer. That was a very good defensive possession, ending in disaster.

In short, it was something of a perfect storm - for 3 whole minutes. Before that, the Spurs kicked Detroits collective asses. After that, even though the Pistons had confidence, you didn't really have the sense that they were going to be able to win the game.

So how did the Pistons defense get the best of the Spurs for those 3 minutes? My opinion is that it came down to two things.
1. The Spurs quit moving without the ball.
2. The Pistons were doing something that has been making me crazy this year, all over the NBA. (Not just against the Spurs.) They were "hedging" out around the 3P line. Only the hedges consist of actually putting a body on the ball-handler and physically shoving him toward mid-court. And at the same time, they were getting into the passing lanes to the guys sitting still in the corners.

I don't blame the Pistons for doing it. But I do blame the NBA for letting the practice get out of hand this year. A hedge is a hedge - but a shove, even if done with the body, is still a shove. But I blame the Spurs players the most, for sitting on their asses and not doing anything to help out the ball-handlers.

Well said. All of it. Great observations.

[GSH]

One more thing - I really like the fact that you gave Pop an "A" for the night. The decision to go to "Hack-A-Wallace" is unpopular as , even among a lot of Spurs fans. But it was absolutely demoralizing to Detroit to see it happening, and knowing that there was nothing they could do to stop it. It also destroyed the rhythm they had gotten into, and eventually caused some players to lose their composure.

For those who say the NBA should do something to stop the practice - there are already two rules to keep it from happening. One is that they allow the player to stand up and shoot two uncontested shots. The other is that when one player commits too many fouls, he gets put on the bench for the rest of the game. It's no different than the intentional walk in baseball, where the batter gets to get on base for free. The object of the game is to put the little ball through the ring. If Ben Wallace can't do that, f'him. The Pistons can always take him off the floor if he's too much of a liability. There are lots of guys in the D-League because they can't shoot worth a damn.

[DBMethos]

Oh man, looking at the few Pistons fans that are left and their emotional posts about last night's game is pretty funny. Spurs have caused some butthurt to other fanbases and this wasn't even Detroit's game thread http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...?f=6&t=1161086 This shouldn't be entertaining, but somehow it is

Anyway as for the grades, I don't care if they're comprehensive or not as long as they're there, and as long as timvp is around to reply.

As for the game, damn Pistons vs Spurs is never pretty, but that was some uggglly ass basketball in the end. I still can't believe that Wallace not only hit a 3, but that they left him on the court during crunch time. The Pistons basically wanted to lose by doing that, and with Gordon's untimely clutch technical, it really seemed like they were tanking the game even though they were still kind of competing at the same time

LMAO @ the butthurt in that thread...I don't miss RealGM at all.