Rank the teams..

[Killakobe81]

I'll give HH credit, as he was one of the only spurfans not to buy into the fool's gold spurs last year. The majority of this board never saw it coming though, and that's what blind homerism will do to you

Absolutely. My boy DPG was nervous about them too ...

Harlem is right even OKC doesnt look so good as a lock in the West. Though I dont hate on Westbrook the way many of you do. I think the loss of Maynor hurts because Harden is truly a defacto starter, but Maynor gave them traditional PG off of the bench if Westbrook struggles ...

[endrity]

No, he isn't. Nowitzki is a turnstile defensively. Easily the worst superstar defender that I've ever seen, including Nash.

Maybe, maybe not.

However, this is what the facts tell us.
(you can refer to the magnificent 82games.com for detailed info on what I am about to lay on your ass)

1) The Mavs last year were a substantially BETTER defensive team with Dirk on the floor than off it.
- Infact their top 5 man unit (Chandler-Dirk-Marion-Kidd-Terry) was beasting on both ends during their run last year. How do you think they made those amazing comebacks?
So the less here is that either those other 4 were Bill Russell incarnated or that Dirk had a hand to play in it.

2) The Mavs have been an even BETTER defensive team this year than last year. And I am not comparing deffensive efficiency only because offensive play is down throughout the league. Relative to other teams they are better than they were during last season.
- All of this while playing their starters the third smallest amount and using their bench a lot. So even their best team is playing little minutes, they are still performing defensively.
- The reason of course, is not that Haywood and Ian became better than Tyson, but the perimeter D has been much better therefor asking less from the centers.

Now, to bring it all back to Dirk. What does this mean?

1) Dallas has a very good defensive system. And whether you like it or not, Dirk is part of it. He might not be the main defender, but he's doing his part.
Which leads us to ...

2) The big misconception that stars have to be great defensively. It helps of course, but more often than not stars will not be the ones playing defense (Kobe sits on a corner mostly these days). All teams try to give their stars the least amount of work defensively to save them for offense. And next time a team picks a Ben Wallace or Bruce Bowen over a Kevin Durant (awful defender), Stoudemire, Melo, Dirk on a draft night let me know. Therefore the defensive performance of a team will actually depend mostly on the other 4 non stars. As long as there is a good defensive center, and Marion playing along Dirk the front court is more than covered for as much as I am concerned.

Now go back to your trolling.

[Killakobe81]

KL does not know of which he speaks ... not sure if it is bad trolling or low bball IQ. But his posts are better upstairs so my guess is trolling .

[endrity]

Absolutely. My boy DPG was nervous about them too ...

Harlem is right even OKC doesnt look so good as a lock in the West. Though I dont hate on Westbrook the way many of you do. I think the loss of Maynor hurts because Harden is truly a defacto starter, but Maynor gave them traditional PG off of the bench if Westbrook struggles ...

They have little scoring outside Durant and Westrbook. Harden is hit and miss. And their end of game execution was awful last year and I haven't seen it improve much this year.

Ibaka and Harden really have to play well for them because their two stars alone won't be enough.

[z0sa]

1. DAL
2. OKC
3. SA
4. LAC
on the outside looking in
5. LAL (could change)
6. MEM

Top 5 are close, with top 3 having the best chances. None will be favorites vs Heat.

[Goran Dragic]

Their top 4 players of Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka will show up for the playoffs and are simply better than the Spurs' top 4 of Parker, Duncan, Ginobili and .

[DeadlyDynasty]

They have little scoring outside Durant and Westrbook. Harden is hit and miss. And their end of game execution was awful last year and I haven't seen it improve much this year.

Ibaka and Harden really have to play well for them because their two stars alone won't be enough.

I like Harden and think he's much more reliable in the clutch than Westbrook. Ibaka is overrated and you can't count on him for jack in the playoffs.

[Goran Dragic]

You can count on defense from Ibaka but any offense he might provide during the regular season evaporates during the playoffs. He's extremely hesitant taking wide open jumpers during the playoffs which kills OKC's offense.

[endrity]

Their top 4 players of Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka will show up for the playoffs and are simply better than the Spurs' top 4 of Parker, Duncan, Ginobili and .

Sorry to disagree with you here for a bit, even though I think you're a good poster.

Last year's playoffs should have shown you that top heavy teams with little chemistry can be beaten with deeper, more coordinated teams.

Now I don't know if SA can beat OKC, but I am just saying I won't be surprised if it happens. Spurs still execute as good as anyone, their play is crisp no matter who is on the floor and OKC still relies on Durant shooting contested 30ft shots at the end of close games.

[z0sa]

Their top 4 players of Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka will show up for the playoffs and are simply better than the Spurs' top 4 of Parker, Duncan, Ginobili and .

I agree obviously ... on paper. The games actually have to be played though, which is why really any of 4-6 teams could legitimately take the West if injuries and/or weird playoff seeding/matchups occur.

[Goran Dragic]

Now I don't know if SA can beat OKC, but I am just saying I won't be surprised if it happens. Spurs still execute as good as anyone, their play is crisp no matter who is on the floor and OKC still relies on Durant shooting contested 30ft shots at the end of close games.

They're a PG oriented team that relies on Tony Parker to do everything. I'll take the team that relies on Durant over the team that relies on a borderline AS point guard.

Maybe the Mavs were an exception but top heavy teams almost always beat teams that have a deep bench. There's a reason Phil Jackson has 11 championships and never gave two s about having a quality 8th and 9th man.

[endrity]

They're a PG oriented team that relies on Tony Parker to do everything. I'll take the team that relies on Durant over the team that relies on a borderline AS point guard.

Maybe the Mavs were an exception but top heavy teams almost always beat teams that have a deep bench. There's a reason Phil Jackson has 11 championships and never gave two s about having a quality 8th and 9th man.

On the other hand, the 03 Spurs and 04 Pistons disprove that as well. And you might add the 02 Kings as well, who really should have won that series in 6. And these are only Laker series, not mentioning how often other stars have failed to progress due to poor teams around them (Yao-TMac Houston?) So it can and has been done, and more often than you think.

Plus, I am sure that Duncan becomes a more important part of the team in the playoffs as he always has during the recent years. He still has many games where his per minute production is absolutely otherwordly. That Manu guy is no chopped liver either.

[Kewni Leonard]

They're a PG oriented team that relies on Tony Parker to do everything.

I'm not sure why you keep saying this, it's making you look like you don't know what you're talking about. The Spurs, more than any team in the league, play team basketball. It certainly isn't Tony Parker doing everything for them like you say.

[Killakobe81]

Sorry to disagree with you here for a bit, even though I think you're a good poster.

Last year's playoffs should have shown you that top heavy teams with little chemistry can be beaten with deeper, more coordinated teams.

Now I don't know if SA can beat OKC, but I am just saying I won't be surprised if it happens. Spurs still execute as good as anyone, their play is crisp no matter who is on the floor and OKC still relies on Durant shooting contested 30ft shots at the end of close games.

I disagree a bit. OKC can run some great offense when Harden is the one running pnr to close games. The problem is whether by coaching or defference to his stars ...it's always Westbrook iso or a double screen action for a deep 3 for Durant, that they end up going to instead ...

The reason I give OKC credit, because they have the talent to do better in close games. But I have no confidence, that they will.

[endrity]

I disagree a bit. OKC can run some great offense when Harden is the one running pnr to close games. The problem is whether by coaching or defference to his stars ...it's always Westbrook iso or a double screen action for a deep 3 for Durant, that they end up going to instead ...

The reason I give OKC credit, because they have the talent to do better in close games. But I have no confidence, that they will.

True! I actually agree with everything here, especially on Harden's playmaking, and that is why coaching is still important in this league.

The difference in a Rick Carlisle offense and Avery Johnson offense is night and day and it made a huge difference for the Mavs.

[Goran Dragic]

On the other hand, the 03 Spurs and 04 Pistons disprove that as well. And you might add the 02 Kings as well, who really should have won that series in 6. And these are only Laker series, not mentioning how often other stars have failed to progress due to poor teams around them (Yao-TMac Houston?) So it can and has been done, and more often than you think.

Plus, I am sure that Duncan becomes a more important part of the team in the playoffs as he always has during the recent years. He still has many games where his per minute production is absolutely otherwordly. That Manu guy is no chopped liver either.

The 04 Pistons and 03 Spurs were the best defensive teams in the league those two years. The 03 Spurs also had the best player in the NBA that year to carry the lack of star power outside of him. You're comparing apples to oranges. A mediocre defensive team with no star power and its PG as its best player is basically the recipe for playoff failure.

Duncan averaged 12.7 PPG in the playoffs last year, and Manu hasn't been healthy the last 4 times the Spurs made the playoffs. If your reason for the Spurs being contenders is that "Ginobili will finally be healthy!" then all I have to say is good luck with that.

[Killakobe81]

I'm not sure why you keep saying this, it's making you look like you don't know what you're talking about. The Spurs, more than any team in the league, play team basketball. It certainly isn't Tony Parker doing everything for them like you say.

Featuring Tony Parker doesnt mean the Spurs dont play "team ball". The bulls played team ball yet MJ got the vast majority of shots. Good team ball includes ball movement and plays that takes advantage of their own team strengths and matchup advantages. Parker has had the advantage and has looked to score. that has been the "right play". Yet many on here criticize Westbrook for the same thing.

My problem with Russ is the TO's and the fact that he always thinks he can take his man, which often times he can, but when the bigs rotate he doesnt always make the right play by dishing. Nothing wrong with a PG scoring, if he has a great matchup the media has been sucking off Jlin for doing the EXACT same thing. But can Westbrook grow as aPG so that he doesn't always look for his shot first? Russ is like the run first QB trying to lean how to stay in the pocket and make his 2nd and 3rd reads ... but remember he never played point in college or HS ...

[Goran Dragic]

PG oriented teams always get heralded for playing "team ball"


Then they lose in the playoffs.

[Killakobe81]

A good team and a PG, will get their shooters open looks, their athletes the ball in the open court and reward their big men that run hard or after a block shot with a post touch. But the goal is always to take advantage of matchups. Many here focus to much on FGA's (lets keep it out Kobe to avoid bias) Do I think AI shot too much? Yes. I grew up a Showtime fan. But on the Sixers finals team there were few other legit scorers so it made sense that he shot that much. That was "team ball" in that context, because the team was built around great defense and HIS scoring.

the Knicks will be an interesting case study, because their best play maybe Amare/Lin pnr but Melo works best at the mid post ... and Lin loves to shoot. To me, it doesnt matter who gets the shots

[DMC]

A few things:

1st, are the Spurs really holding teams to 93ppg or is the scoring so ty across the league that teams are not presenting the offensive challenge as they did last year?

What changed in our defense to cause this? Don't tell me Kawhi, because he's not on the floor that much. Bonner, Neal, RJ, Blair and even Parker are not good defenders. Where is the good defense coming from? You have Duncan, Splitter (when he's out there) and Leonard who play good defense. Everyone else plays so so, and some of those play ty defense.

We are offensive, that we are. We can score the ball. We seem to have a of a time stopping it though, as made evident by the fact that we cannot seem to maintain a lead for long. Once the other team finds their range, it's back to trading baskets. We just have the ability to pound the ball inside and get high percentage looks while they usually settle for outside shots. Those outside shots go for awhile but sooner or later being to be long rebounds and points at the other end for us. That's not what I consider a stop, it's just a miss. Sure we make them shoot long shots, but they oblige by being to immature in the game to force the ball inside, and in the playoffs that will all change.

Manu's health is a roll of the dice. I doubt it but it could happen.

[Goran Dragic]

The average defensive rating this year is 103.0 while the average defensive rating in 2011, 2010 and 2009 was 107.3. DMC is spot on that scoring is down across the league. Every team has the "improved defense" that the Spurs have this year.

[stretch]

The Spurs are not a championship team, IMO. But they are not to be taken lightly in a playoff series either. I could see them beating any of the top West teams in a series, out of Dallas, OKC, Lakers, Clippers, etc... but can't see them beating multiple of those teams, and then somehow fending off Miami in the Finals. They can pull off one upset, max.

[Kewni Leonard]

PG oriented teams always get heralded for playing "team ball"


Then they lose in the playoffs.

It isn't oriented around Parker, though. It has been more so lately because Manu has been out. The Spurs get everyone involved. Last I checked, the Spurs had 7 players averaging 9+ PPG.

[DAF86]

After Miami and Chicago the East is a bunch of and I'm not sure Chicago would beat teams like the Spurs, Mavs and Lakers on a playoffs series. The NBA is in a pretty sad state right now, if the Heat doesn't win it this year they should just give up.

[DAF86]

They're a PG oriented team that relies on Tony Parker to do everything. I'll take the team that relies on Durant over the team that relies on a borderline AS point guard.

Maybe the Mavs were an exception but top heavy teams almost always beat teams that have a deep bench. There's a reason Phil Jackson has 11 championships and never gave two s about having a quality 8th and 9th man.

WTF?