48 MOH: Splitter not getting big minutes because he's injury-prone

[ChumpDumper]

You gotta be in kidding me....

Are you geniuses actually arguing that the TD/Splitter is NOT the spurs best chance?

Here's something really, really simple;

A hall of fame coach starts putting his BEST five players on the court the majority of the minutes of a game....and this hall of fame coach plays the NOT SO GOOD players a lot less minutes of a game....

Then this hall of fame coach gets his ass in gear and coaches these 5 good players to run an offense that works using these 5 best players.

This in' bull of DATA says this combo won't work and this DATA says that combo has a higher +/- garbage is just that....garbage.

The hall of fame coach has been gifted a young 7 footer with smarts, quickness, toughness, and a load of talent and all this asshole future hall of famer can muster is to play this 7 footer less than Matt Bonner....

and instead of looking at this coach's performance...you morons are looking at DATA that says this team needs to keep playing turds like Bonner and Blair....because the DATA supports this and ......awww it....


you Popsuckers are idiots.... dumpster and schtiiikkk....are especially stupid....

lol daily meltdown.

[therealtruth]

The only reason Blair/Bonner play is because of the lack of bigs. They're not cracking the rotation on any winning team. Ideally you would have TD and TS start and have a competent big like Dice come of the bench.

[DPG21920]

I know you're not saying, you're just saying. But I don't give a damn what the data says. The sample size isn't nearly big enough to draw any sort of concrete conclusions.

All this talk about the spacing is nonsense. Duncan's offense was a lot more low post oriented when he played with Mohammed and Oberto -- two very limited shooters -- and the offense worked just fine, efficiency wise. Intelligent players, such as Duncan, Splitter, Ginobili and Parker, will find a way to make it work.

Duncan can basically play the Robinson role on offense, while still being an occasional post up option . . . which is essentially what he does now. And if he's having a turn back the clock game or has an advantageous match-up and they want to relentlessly pound it into him, then in those instances it makes sense to surround him with more shooting.

All the supposed issues ignore the fact that those same issues are prevalent with Blair starting. Only with him, they don't get the quality defense.

I agree 100%. I don't even care about the arguments for and against really. The only thing I think is relevant at the moment is this: We have one set of rotations we know for sure (barring a miracle change from what normally happens) does not work in the playoffs. We have another we aren't sure about that while there is some conflicting limited data on how well they perform together, would seem to have upside. Spurs need to figure out with more certainty if that will work.

[SpurNation]

What's the harm in managing player's minutes during the course of this compressed season if the Spurs are still winning AND capitalizing on having less fatigued players when playoffs begin?

[DPG21920]

What's the harm in managing player's minutes during the course of this compressed season if the Spurs are still winning AND capitalizing on having less fatigued players when playoffs begin?

SN, I don't think the limiting of the minutes is the huge issue considering how amazing the Spurs are in doing so while still winning in the regular season. The harm is in not giving certain players enough time together when knowing down the road they will likely have to play together when it counts.

[ChumpDumper]

Didn't they play together better in the playoffs without playing together in the regular season?

[jjktkk]

Also, this is about Blair/Bonner not cutting it and working with what we have.

Pop knows Blair and Bonner don't cut it. But he still has to figure out a way to use them, especially Blair, not to mention Pop monitoring Tim's minutes, and apparantly Splitter's as well.

There is no doubt in my mind that if the Spurs brought in someone with the same offensive spacing issues as Blair, but better defensively, the Spurs would be better off and I for one wouldn't be clamoring to play Tiago/Tim together so much.

Totally agree.

The offense isn't the problem. It's the defense with Blair starting or Matt in the playoffs. Just get someone who is a better defender to start instead of Blair because the offense can't get much worse than Blair's ability to spread the floor with Tim.

Like many have mentioned this season, the Spurs are one bigman away from truly contending.

[ChumpDumper]

Really, from all the stats listed, we should keep Splitter and Duncan apart as much as possible during the regular season and use Bonner as much as possible, then in the playoffs use Bonner as little as possible while playing Splitter and Bonner together as much as possible.

[SpurNation]

The harm is in not giving certain players enough time together when knowing down the road they will likely have to play together when it counts.

I think that is more of a "anticipated" fear than actual occurrence when the time comes.

[MaNu4Tres]

I know you're not saying, you're just saying. But I don't give a damn what the data says. The sample size isn't nearly big enough to draw any sort of concrete conclusions.

All this talk about the spacing is nonsense. Duncan's offense was a lot more low post oriented when he played with Mohammed and Oberto -- two very limited shooters -- and the offense worked just fine, efficiency wise. Intelligent players, such as Duncan, Splitter, Ginobili and Parker, will find a way to make it work.

Duncan can basically play the Robinson role on offense, while still being an occasional post up option . . . which is essentially what he is now. And if he's having a turn back the clock game or has an advantageous match-up and they want to relentlessly pound it into him, then in those instances it makes sense to surround him with more shooting.

All the supposed issues ignore the fact that those same issues are prevalent with Blair starting. Only with him, they don't get the quality defense.

Great post

Agree with everything here.


IMO-- There's two reasons why Splitter isn't seeing as many minutes as he should be getting and it doesn't have to do with him being " injury prone". IMO

(IMO)The first reason why Splitter isn't getting significant minutes right now is because Pop doesn't want to lose a big man in the rotation. Being thin at the position, Pop knows the Spurs can't afford to lose Blair from a spiritual and mental standpoint. To explain, if Pop ships 10-12 minutes of Blair's to Tiago, (which all of us are crying for; including myself), then Pop will inevitably lose Blair because of the fragile make-up of his mentality. This became apparent to me many times before when his minutes have decreased in the past and the relatively recent game in New Orleans clarified my opinion of his mental make-up. If anyone has NBA League Pass Broadband or has the game on DVR please go re-watch the closing minutes and watch Blair's actions at the end of the game whenever Tim and Tiago closed it out (from start of mid-way of 4th til whenever the players congratulate each other at the end). Blair just has a selfish and ego driven mindset (IMO). All in all, Pop knows Spurs can't afford to lose him from a spiritual and mental standpoint.

The second reason is because of the market/trading value of Blair needs to be as high as it possibly can going into the trading deadline. If Pop were to limit Blair to only 10-15 minutes (like he should be doing), Blair's market value drops-- which hurts the Spurs chances at potentially getting better via trade once March rolls around.

[SpurNation]

Really, from all the stats listed, we should keep Splitter and Duncan apart as much as possible during the regular season and use Bonner as much as possible, then in the playoffs use Bonner as little as possible while playing Splitter and Bonner together as much as possible.

I think we have a winner.

[DPG21920]

SN

[jjktkk]

Also, this is about Blair/Bonner not cutting it and working with what we have. There is no doubt in my mind that if the Spurs brought in someone with the same offensive spacing issues as Blair, but better defensively, the Spurs would be better off and I for one wouldn't be clamoring to play Tiago/Tim together so much.

The offense isn't the problem. It's the defense with Blair starting or Matt in the playoffs. Just get someone who is a better defender to start instead of Blair because the offense can't get much worse than Blair's ability to spread the floor with Tim.

Great post

Agree with everything here.


IMO-- There's two reasons why Splitter isn't seeing as many minutes as he should be getting and it doesn't have to do with him being " injury prone". IMO

(IMO)The first reason why Splitter isn't getting significant minutes right now is because Pop doesn't want to lose a big man in the rotation. Being thin at the position, Pop knows the Spurs can't afford to lose Blair from a spiritual and mental standpoint. To explain, if Pop ships 10-12 minutes of Blair's to Tiago, (which all of us are crying for; including myself), then Pop will inevitably lose Blair because of the fragile make-up of his mentality. This became apparent to me many times before when his minutes have decreased in the past and the relatively recent game in New Orleans clarified my opinion of his mental make-up. If anyone has NBA League Pass Broadband or has the game on DVR please go re-watch the closing minutes and watch Blair's actions at the end of the game whenever Tim and Tiago closed it out (from start of mid-way of 4th til whenever the players congratulate each other at the end). Blair just has a selfish and ego driven mindset (IMO). All in all, Pop knows Spurs can't afford to lose him from a spiritual and mental standpoint.

The second reason is because of the market/trading value of Blair needs to be as high as it possibly can going into the trading deadline. If Pop were to limit Blair to only 10-15 minutes (like he should be doing), Blair's market value drops-- which hurts the Spurs chances at potentially getting better via trade once March rolls around.

Great post.

[therealtruth]

The Spurs need another big man. This is the one thing I continue to gather from all these arguments.

Pop himself has said the only reason he plays Bonner/Blair is because those are the only big men he has. Then the front office went off and did nothing.

[therealtruth]

That, and the fact that for right now since a trade looks exceedingly difficult to come by, you have to work with what you have which is Tiago/Tim.

So unless the Spurs are fairly confident they can trade for or sign a FA big that will replace Blair in the starting line up, not playing Tiago/Tim more minutes together could cause a lot of problems.

They don't need a starting quality. Though it might be nice to have it's probably unrealistic. They just need a big that can allow Tiago to start with Tim and to prevent Bonner/Blair combinations.

[therealtruth]

Great post

Agree with everything here.


IMO-- There's two reasons why Splitter isn't seeing as many minutes as he should be getting and it doesn't have to do with him being " injury prone". IMO

(IMO)The first reason why Splitter isn't getting significant minutes right now is because Pop doesn't want to lose a big man in the rotation. Being thin at the position, Pop knows the Spurs can't afford to lose Blair from a spiritual and mental standpoint. To explain, if Pop ships 10-12 minutes of Blair's to Tiago, (which all of us are crying for; including myself), then Pop will inevitably lose Blair because of the fragile make-up of his mentality. This became apparent to me many times before when his minutes have decreased in the past and the relatively recent game in New Orleans clarified my opinion of his mental make-up. If anyone has NBA League Pass Broadband or has the game on DVR please go re-watch the closing minutes and watch Blair's actions at the end of the game whenever Tim and Tiago closed it out (from start of mid-way of 4th til whenever the players congratulate each other at the end). Blair just has a selfish and ego driven mindset (IMO). All in all, Pop knows Spurs can't afford to lose him from a spiritual and mental standpoint.

The second reason is because of the market/trading value of Blair needs to be as high as it possibly can going into the trading deadline. If Pop were to limit Blair to only 10-15 minutes (like he should be doing), Blair's market value drops-- which hurts the Spurs chances at potentially getting better via trade once March rolls around.

That's the same kind of reasoning that prevented Pop from giving Tiago minutes last season. He didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. It doesn't matter if you're setting yourself up to lose in the playoffs. It would be better to know now if Blair can be a professional than to have him sulk in the playoffs. Blair's got to check his ego at the door and Pop needs to do what's best for the team.

[CGD]

Interesting theory, which I think has some truth to it. To test it, we should track whether Tiago's minutes increase in months leading up to the playoffs.

The reality is that teams have their workhorses for the regular season and their finishers for the playoffs -- each important in there own right. It makes sense for the Blairs of the world hold the fort down during the regular and slowly make way for the Splitters as the seasons progresses.

[Russ]

This is an obvious bump . . .

[timvp]

Tbh, I'm not sure this Splitter injuries proves anything either way. He got injured in his first minute after having his minutes limited all season ... it's not like his body fell apart after Pop started playing him big minutes. One could argue that Splitter's legs would be stronger if he was accustomed to playing a lot of minutes and maybe wouldn't suffer a calf strain.

But yeah, Pop will probably really limit Splitter's minutes going forward since he'll have "proof" . . .

[DesignatedT]

It's startin to look like he is "injury prone". That doesn't mean he shouldn't play though, just that he is fragile and will unlikely make it through a full 82 game season every year. Manu is also "injury prone", as well as many other good players in the league.

[Russ]

It's startin to look like he is "injury prone".

Splitter "looks" about as injury prone as a Sherman tank.

But you're right, it is what it is.

The Spurs need both Splitter and Manu to have any hope post-season.

So we'll just have to hope.

[Cane]

Splitter is injury prone but IIRC its mostly just minor nagging stuff.

And with Splitter's game predicated on sacrificing himself on both ends of the court in the paint, its not that much of a surprise, even without looking at his international history.

[MaNu4Tres]

It's startin to look like he is "injury prone". That doesn't mean he shouldn't play though, just that he is fragile and will unlikely make it through a full 82 game season every year. Manu is also "injury prone", as well as many other good players in the league.

Injury prone or not, you can't coach based on the probability or likely-hood of an injury. You coach to win ball games in June! Period!

Of course managing players minutes and all that has something to do with the long-run of the team's overall health--which is important for success. But so does building familiarity with your teams best two post players. That is something Pop has failed to do the past 2 years with Splitter and Duncan. I don't think anyone expects Pop to play Splitter 35 minutes a night in the regular season, but what we do expect is for Pop to take initiative in getting his two best big men acclimated with one another-- by playing them together more. And with the way this roster is constructed, playing them together more means he needs to increase Tiago's minutes from 21 mpg to at least 26-28 mpg because of Bonner and Blair's roles with the team.

All in all, when gets real (late April-May), Pop can't afford to play on the safe side and limit Splitter's minutes (because of the probability of an injury) and Pop can't be content with 21 minutes for Tiago because it's what "worked" in the regular season (when teams didn't have 1-2 weeks to prepare for the Spurs). That significant dose of the Bonner/Blair ship has sailed. Pop needs to do whatever he can to give Splitter and Duncan more run together whenever Splitter gets back, which should build more cohesive chemistry between the two on both ends. This Splitter/Duncan predicament is going to be critical for the Spurs overall success this year.

[Blackjack]

Granted, I haven't been able to watch the Spurs at all this year.

But, agree with it or not, I don't think it's hard to see what Pop's rationale is:

Tim and Tiago are both centers, they don't compliment each other offensively, and he doesn't see the upgrade defensively as bein enough to overcome the offense.

Seems to me Pop's been perpetually scarred by '08: the defense was sound, the offense wasn't quite good enough.

I don't believe he feels the Spurs can play the type of D it takes to play the grind-it-out game of yesteryear. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. It has to be his rationale - even if it's terrible rationale.

I'll take my chances with the Spurs' best players, and that includes Tiago.

But Pop ain't savin Tiago from himself. He may be tryin to save Blair from his, maybe jack up his trade-value, but I don't believe he feels Tim and Tiago can co-exist the way we all hope or think he can. I don't believe he feels the Spurs can beat the best of the best in the halfcourt playin Tim and Tiago like Tim and Dave - different time, different players.

No bueno.

[ElNono]

Injury prone or not, you can't coach based on the probability or likely-hood of an injury.

This. Never seen a coach like Phil Jackson do something like that either (including micromanaging minutes). Injuries are just part of the game. Can happen at any time. Luckily, there's no season ending injury in this case. You just move on.