Let's Talk Rebuilding

[Dex]

and have the spurs won anything since?

The day a GM is able to obtain the services of a psychic will be the start of the first ten-peat.

[mountainballer]

So you let Duncan walk if he wants more than $8M to stay?

Just curious.

tough question. likely not.
but then we can stop talk about rebuilding for another 2 years. 8M is just the magic number. more means that Spurs can only work with the MLE or similar numbers. but maybe it's the best to not overrate 2012 free agency and focus on what can be done with the MLE. (which means no run at Batum for example)

but do you see a team offer Tim 10 or more?

[vander]

If they traded Manu and Tony three years ago, it's highly unlikely they would have gotten a return that was even equal to what Manu and Tony have been worth over the last three years ... much less exceeding that level of play.

And either way, the Spurs would still be dealing with a declining Tim Duncan, which is 99% of the reason why a rebuild is necessary.

if we had traded them for picks and bad contracts, then tanked, we'd have had around 5 lottery picks in 2 years, and money for a big FA when we wanted one.

and my perspective is championship or bust, manu and TP have kept the Spurs good for the last 3 years, but not contenders for a championship, they were just years down the drain.

[vander]

The day a GM is able to obtain the services of a psychic will be the start of the first ten-peat.

so, are you trying to say that I'm psychic?

[timvp]

if we had traded them for picks and bad contracts, then tanked, we'd have had around 5 lottery picks in 2 years, and money for a big FA when we wanted one.

You can't tank with Tim Duncan on your team. Doesn't work. Unless, of course, in your masterplan three years ago you also traded away Duncan.

And three years ago after Manu's leg exploded in the Olympics, you'd have be lucky to salary dump him ... much less get something back for him.

[Muser]

At this point in their careers I agree about Manu and Duncan because you're really not going to get anything great in a trade for them anyway. Disagree with the Splitter/Parker tandem, once Duncan and Manu go then you have to blow the team up or we turn into the past few seasons Detroit Pistons. Not good enough for the playoffs but not bad enough for a high draft pick.

[Paranoid Pop]

if we had traded them for picks and bad contracts, then tanked, we'd have had around 5 lottery picks in 2 years, and money for a big FA when we wanted one.

and my perspective is championship or bust, manu and TP have kept the Spurs good for the last 3 years, but not contenders for a championship, they were just years down the drain.

How many lottery picks does Minnesota have? They're still barely .500...

If anyone should have been traded it was manu because he's so injury prone but the fans veto'd it.

[Muser]

Minnesota have David Kahn as their GM, so that's a really bad example tbh.

[5in10]

Resign Duncan
Amnesty RJ
Go after Batum
Sign Lorbek

Call it an offseason. Having 2 perimeter defenders like Batum and Leonard would be sick.

[K-State Spur]

and my perspective is championship or bust, manu and TP have kept the Spurs good for the last 3 years, but not contenders for a championship, they were just years down the drain.

i'd say best record in the west is "contenders". arguably so is beating out a Mavs team the year before that would win it the next year.

unfortunately, bad match-ups, injuries, and just not playing well in key moments led to earlier knock outs that we wanted to see. but that doesn't mean they didn't have a puncher's chance heading into the playoffs. if the Mavs could win it all last year, so could the Spurs if the stars could align. sometimes, that's all you can ask for.

now, if you mean building a team that is championship FAVORITES? well, that takes a of a lot longer than 3 years and there hasn't been one player drafted in the past 3 years (even if we had gotten #1 overall pick by tanking) that would have altered that. In fact, Blake Griffin's all-star appearance this year represents the ulative total of all-star appearances from the past 3 drafts.

[Dex]

so, are you trying to say that I'm psychic?

I'm saying that three years ago, you had no idea what position the Spurs would be in at this point in time either, and even if you had your su ions, nobody would've paid them any attention anyways.

Not a single team in the league would blow up a championship / borderline-dynasty core on "premonitions".

But if you want to go on pretending that hindsight isn't 20/20, nothing I am going to say will likely change that.

[DesignatedT]

DROB got around 10mil/yr in his twilight years and that's probably about what Duncan is worth going forward. One can hope he takes even less but 10mil isn't overpaying him IMO.

Now assuming TD signes for that, RJ is amnestied, McDyess, TJ, JA come off the books and we resign Neal and Green to 2-4mil contracts what does that leave us to spend during the off-season?

[mountainballer]

just thought about it.
we won't get Batum via FA.
Blazers have tons of available money this summer, even if Wallace does not opt out.
considering Batum has been playing at all-star level lately, they will match any offer for Batum the Spurs might be willing, or are able to hand out.
if we want Batum, it will take a trade at deadline and then re sign him this summer.
the price will be Leonard plus 1st round pick 2012. maybe even plus Blair.

[TimmehC]

Resign Duncan
Amnesty RJ
Go after Batum
Sign Lorbek

Call it an offseason. Having 2 perimeter defenders like Batum and Leonard would be sick.

Not bad. That doesn't really address defense in the frontcourt, but at least Lorbek is a versatile offensive threat.

[vander]

You can't tank with Tim Duncan on your team. Doesn't work. Unless, of course, in your masterplan three years ago you also traded away Duncan.

he could have had an "injury"

and even without an "injury", duncan without any help would still have been a bottom 10 team these last 3 years

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

he could have had an "injury"

and even without an "injury", duncan without any help would still have been a bottom 10 team these last 3 years

So you have 3 picks in the 8th - 14th range from the last 3 drafts. Which players do you choose to contend with?

[vander]

I'm saying that three years ago, you had no idea what position the Spurs would be in at this point in time either, and even if you had your su ions, nobody would've paid them any attention anyways.

Not a single team in the league would blow up a championship / borderline-dynasty core on "premonitions".

But if you want to go on pretending that hindsight isn't 20/20, nothing I am going to say will likely change that.

well, I knew they wouldn't contend for a championship, and I was rabble rabbling that they should trade Manu and TP while they still had value

[timvp]

well, I knew they wouldn't contend for a championship, and I was rabble rabbling that they should trade Manu and TP while they still had value

Tbh, your first post on SpursTalk was ....

i think the spurs need to blow it up

Good call ... well, except for the fact that the Spurs won the championship five months later.

[z0sa]

Great thread timvp and some awesome ideas. This is actually great timing for one of these threads - things are going well right now, and it seems as if the championship fire continues to be kindled. You just can't count the Spurs out.

However, I doubt Splitter's ability to be a 35MPG kind of guy with close/playoff games in the high 30s and 40s - at least, at the moment. Being 1B/2 in the NBA's long, tortuous season and playoffs is just a totally different animal than carrying a high level Euro team. That's really the main problem with the TP/Splitter combo leading things in 2-3 years, Splitter's viability. I've always wondered if his lack of playing time was attributed to a general unease about his health, so I guess we'll just have to wait that one out.

That said, I'd put the Spurs FO right at the top when it comes to shrewd decision making. If a big enough player was landed or traded for, and if they did not overpay guys like Leonard, and if another couple draft steals might be acquired, then there's no way you can give up on this team's aspirations, however slim they could appear at times.

I know I won't. Here's to a great season thus far and a still bright Spurs future.

[vander]

Tbh, your first post on SpursTalk was ....





Good call ... well, except for the fact that the Spurs won the championship five months later.

hmm, well I did say keep Duncan and Parker, so not exactly rebuilding, putting new and younger pieces around TD and TP in 07 probably would have netted more than just one more championship.

[Mal]

So you let Duncan walk if he wants more than $8M to stay?

Just curious.

Just talk to Duncan. He`s already took less salary to help Spurs getting better team.

I would ask you this question.

Buford - Look Timmy, we have a deal with Batum/Hibbert. He is willing to sign
here, PTB/IND wont matchup it. We send them 2 1st round picks as compensation. But to make it work , we could sign you only for 8 mil.

What would Duncan do ?
Go and search for more money elsewhere, retire, take the offer, take the offer but something like Dice (8mil,9mil, 5 of 10 mil guaranteed in 3 year).

Really dont think that Duncan would play more then 2 years from now. If so, there is still 10 mil on the table. Not bad.

It is still possible.

[baseline bum]

The Jazz landed Carlos Boozer and Memo Okur shortly after the Stockton/Malone era.

If the Spurs had Parker, Splitter, Leonard, Boozer-esque player and Okur-esque player ..... that ain't bad.

And the Jazz almost landed Corey Maggette after signing him to that offersheet. If the Jazz can land Boozer/Okur/Maggette types in free agency, there's no excuse for the Spurs FO.

Getting a player like Boozer or Okur to be my #1 wouldn't excite me at all. I don't see how the team ever gets anywhere without landing some kind of franchise player, and those are few and far between drafting 15 every year in a Rockets scenario like I see your plan becoming. If the team flames out again like last year, getting completely dominated by a borderline contender, I don't see what's the point of hanging onto the past.

So if Duncan asks for $40 million over two years or he's going to walk, how many of you are going to let him walk?

Personally, I would give him the $40 million over two years.

1. He's earned it.

2. If he would have come out of school one year earlier, he probably earns $100 million more in his career. Why punish him for waiting for the Spurs to suck enough to draft him?

3. Do you really want to push him into a Raptors Hakeem scenario? That was just embarrassing for Hakeem and the Rockets. And it didn't help them in their rebuilding efforts at all.

This is the only thing that could make me endorse your plan: ensuring we never see Tim playing for the Hawks, Sixers, Blazers, or some other pseudocontender. If Tim says you can't rebuild with me on the roster, then you do what he says. And yeah, 2 years, $40 million? I sign that contract in a second if I'm Holt. I really hope we get a strong playoff showing this season so it would make sense to keep the team together another year though.

[benefactor]

Vander with the "I Believe I Can Fly" GM goods, per his usual, tbh, imo, fwiw.

[justinandimcool]

I know realistically Duncan won't ask for less than 10 million to resign, but in theory could the Spurs miraculously convince him to say a 3 year 12 mill contract? I understand that's a humungous pay cut, but one can dream right?

[z0sa]

I really hope we get a strong playoff showing this season so it would make sense to keep the team together another year though.

IMHO, I don't see any way the Spurs get bounced early this year. Yeah, call me a homer and bring up last season, and I honestly don't have an answer to either. But this team just has that feel to it, at least, thus far and if healthy, that says "We can compete against anybody." That was distinctly lacking vs MEM, especially from Tony Parker.

And Spurs have only gotten better since last season anyway, considering Tiago's insurgence, Kawhi's obvious skill and potential, Green's sudden impact on both ends which helped soothe the GHill transition, and Neal's continuing expansion of his game.

Additionally, if by some miracle Ginobili is 95% healthy ...