If the big three are kept, the next blow up date could be summer of 2014. Everyone assumes Duncan will have a two year deal and Manu could be overpaid for one year to see how things go.
Of course that goes against my keeping Manu forevah argument, but it's for illustrative purposes.
Bud no!I think Bud is a good choice, but how do you guys feel about Sean Elliott? He seems incredibly knowledgeable during the telecasts plus he oftens says what a lot of Spur fans are thinking in regards to Splitter deserving more minutes
I don't know if he's ready to go straight into head coach mode, but at least a spot with the coaching staff in general would be great.
I also wouldn't mind Alvin Gentry down the line.
Sean yes.
I think Timmy and Manu will probably help the franchise's future by retiring at the same time. At that point, you're likely going to have a ton of cap space to help the team find what it needs to stay compe ive. And those new signings might help keep the fans coming back. People like it when the team can offer something new and exciting.
That's why I wanted them to sign Gustavo Ayon so badly. Besides needing another big body, it would have been worth a small fortune to have a center from Mexico on the team. He was the biggest bargain around, because of what he would have done for fan interest.
Spokesman, yes. Consultant, yes. Full-time head coach? I don't think he's interested in the incredible grind of head coaching. It's not a matter of knowledge, it's being able to take a day or two off to play. I think he's got his dream job right now.
Last edited by GSH; 02-28-2012 at 04:47 PM.
Genuine question that appears to be not.
That's a good observation and was probably true of Bud a while ago. But he's grown into the role as the head assistant coach, especially after PJ left.
He's actually now really straightforward with the players in a Pop manner the days. He doesn't beat around the bush and isn't afraid to offer harsh critiques ... which is a main reason why I like him. He's like Pop in being brutally honest yet fair across the board.
On top of that he's really sharp. He basically knows the offensive sets and defensive sets of every team around the league and is the master and guessing the out-of-timeout plays other teams are going to use.
I've seen Bud coach in summer league and games when Pop has gotten ejected and his subs ution patterns always make a lot of sense ... and the players seemed to respond to him.
I'm really high on Bud's potential as a future head coach, especially if it's in San Antonio because he wouldn't have to worry about any sort of power struggle or anything else of the sort. He's never going to be quite Larry Brown or Pop when it comes to be a demanding, combustible head coach but he's come a long ways since his cream puff days.
I'm a huge Sean Elliott fan but he's about the last person who could be a head coach in the NBA. During his playing days, he was the player who'd be sitting in the back of the room cracking jokes. I don't want to call him lazy but he wasn't exactly the most mentally engaged player in Spurs history.I think Bud is a good choice, but how do you guys feel about Sean Elliott? He seems incredibly knowledgeable during the telecasts plus he oftens says what a lot of Spur fans are thinking in regards to Splitter deserving more minutes
I don't know if he's ready to go straight into head coach mode, but at least a spot with the coaching staff in general would be great.
On top of that, his fatal flaw is he's just not obsessed enough. He was notorious for always being late to practice and even to this day, he's always the last person to board the charter plane. The running joke is that if the Spurs are due to leave at 2 PM, Sean Elliott won't start strolling the runway until 2:15.
Elliott knows his basketball. Knows what the Spurs are doing inside and out. He's a student of the game, especially when it comes to footwork. But he has zero coaching potential. And he'd be the first person to tell you that.
This has been my stance for a long time, so I completely agree. This is definitely your best work in some time. A lot of really good points throughout the thread.
Anybody concerned that Duncan would be greedy doesn't know much about Duncan, obviously. Once they lay out their plan, there's no question in my mind that he'll be reasonable, like he was when he signed his last contract. He took $11 million over 2 years less than he could have (and should have) gotten. I've said for the longest time that I think he'll take it a year at a time at this point and that he'll sign for $10-12 million, which he's still worth. He's a top three player, at a highly important position, that's scarce with anything resembling high end talent. And the only reason he's not worth well above that isn't performance related; it's minutes related.
Given the lack of quality options in free agency (Arthur is probably the best potential long term fit at PF) and on the trade front (Millsap is probably the best option likely to be available, given that he'll be entering the final season of his contract and the fact that they have Favors and Kanter waiting in the wings), I don't think the Spurs are necessarily planning on finding a long term solution at PF. Yet.
The best option I see available to take advantage of the final 1-2 years Duncan and Ginobili likely will play and who I believe will be the Spurs primary target, is Garnett. He's more than likely done with the Celtics. There's only two teams I could see him holding off retirement for: The Lakers (if/when they trade Gasol) and Spurs. The Lakers because he lives in L.A. in the off season and is a long time friend of Bryant's. The Spurs because he's made it abundantly clear in recent years that he has a high level of respect and admiration for them and Duncan in particular. Though they were never close, I think the idea of playing with Duncan and going for one final ring together would be appeal to him, as would the fact that he could go back to exclusively playing PF.
That's actually a good example of why the Spurs should hang on to the Big 3 as long as possible. That season you're speaking of, IRRC 1986, was the season after they traded away George Gervin. Spurs fans hated that trade and they basically stopped coming to games.
Even though Gervin ended up being done and it made sense on paper to move on from the Gervin era, in hindsight it was a dumb trade. The original version of Raptors Hakeem was Bulls Gervin. That's an embarrassing footnote in Spurs history that didn't have to happen ... and nearly played a big role in the team leaving San Antonio.
Spurs fans don't need much of an excuse to be fickle. By trading away an icon, like Gervin in the summer of 1985, you're just asking for trouble.
The ironic thing is the Gervin trade sounds a lot like Ginobili trades fans talk about these days. Aging shooting guard for a bigman doesn't sound too bad at the time ... but looks ridiculously stupid in retrospect.
True. But then you have to factor in how Parker might be able to increase Splitter's (and other players') value in a few years. Plus, one middle of the pack lottery pick doesn't make much of a difference in the grand scheme of rebuilding. No one is going to give the Spurs a top five pick for Parker ... and that's the type of pick you need to truly rebuild.
If Garnett leaves Boston, I see him taking the remainder of Dallas' capspace after they sign Deron Williams this summer. Still, the Spurs might be able to beat that offer if Tim signs for $10-12 million or so and they amnesty The .
Wasn't Ice heavily into the coke at the time though? You can't have that in the locker room. I can't imagine Gervin for Greenwood was anything other than dumping a problem.
Didn't realize all that stuff about Sean, very interesting to say the least.
Genuine question.
That was the rumor but it didn't make Spurs fans hate it any less. Fast forward to today and the Spurs could frame a Ginobili trade however they want but your average Spurs fan will be tempted to disown the Spurs.
They didn't come in 87, 88, or 89 either though, even after Ice was out of the league.
Wow, you think Parker would only pull an 8-10 level pick this summer? I wouldn't trade him either if that's all I could get. That seems really low to me though.Plus, one middle of the pack lottery pick doesn't make much of a difference in the grand scheme of rebuilding. No one is going to give the Spurs a top five pick for Parker ... and that's the type of pick you need to truly rebuild.
Spurs fans have a long memory. We'll all be dead before the Luis Scola trade isn't brought up at least once a week
Smallish point guard on the wrong side of 30 with a non-expiring contract? Even if he keeps up his level of play, I don't think you get more than the 7th or 8th overall pick in this upcoming draft.
I could be wrong but I just don't see it.
I think that's a good comparison in situations. Fans would react similarly now as then. The only difference in terms of actual basketball was that then the Spurs had at the time what they thought to be a budding star player in Alvin Robertson and they wanted to get more time for him on the court. And if I remember, Ice wasn't happy about coming off the bench.
Obviously, Manu doesn't have a problem coming off the bench, even in his prime, otherwise he would be gone a while ago, most likely on his own accord. So it's safe to say that Manu would be cool with staying with the Spurs in his twilight as a veteran presence, which pretty much describes his current situation.
If that's it then might as well go down with the ship then. Unless this team just completely flames out like last season.
I'd be surprised. He'd either have to start and play even more center than he already does or come off the bench, neither of which I could see appealing to him. He detests playing and being thought of as a center to the extent that he insists on being listed at 6-11, even though it's well known he's 7-1. When this is brought to his attention, his go to response is that he's 6-foot-13 and he's only half joking when he says it.
Also, I don't think he'd make this decision based on money, unless the gap was massive and I don't see how it could be in this case. If the Lakers trade Gasol AND acquire Howard, then he'd probably sign with them. Short of that, I think the Spurs would have the inside track. It would probably take some convincing though, because I could easily see his first option being retirement.
Fair enough. As a plan that sounds like what could easily happen. Though by waiting until 2014 that blow up wouldn't be very explosive, in fact it's sort of the opposite of a "blow up", but as a fan I hope that's the way it happens.
I don't see Orlando making a Howard for Gasol trade, and I really don't see Garnett signing for the mini-MLE. I think he would take it as an insult to play for less than $7 million. I think he'll end up back in a Celtics uniform for something like 2 years, $15 million.
I didn't say they would, because obviously the Magic wouldn't consider it. What I said was, "if the Lakers trade Gasol AND acquire Howard", not "if the Lakers trade Gasol straight up for Howard".
It is difficult to envision him signing for the mini-MLE though; you're right. On second thought, the Spurs would probably have the inside track, because they could offer potentially up to triple that. I'd be surprised if he's back with the Celtics and stunned if he signed for 2 years anywhere.
Last edited by TD 21; 02-28-2012 at 05:52 PM.
Would you sign Duncan if he ask for a 3 years / $90M ala Kobe? Just curious since we know he won't ask that.
If no, what is your limit? $15M a year?
If the alternative is a Raptors Hakeem ending for Duncan's career, I'd gladly sign off on spending Holt's money to give Duncan his farewell contract (even at a huge number like that). And then I'd want the Spurs to align all the contracts to expire when that comes off the books.
@Timvp
What about Vaughn? Pop seems to dig him as a great coach in the making? While we're still at it, I've got to say I'm curious about our rebuilding process, nostalgic yet curious. One aspect though I'd like to hear your opinion on. Do you sign a free agent prime big and rebuild through a perimeter player in the draft, or the other way around?
That'll be a sad day. Not to say it isn't a smart thing to do having all the player's contracts end together, but the finality of it all would be overwhelming.
Wow this thread really blew up since I posted last night. Cool to see some interesting perspectives and while I see a lot of people are against giving Duncan whatever he wants, I want to say thats its imperative that we give him what he wants.
But there are limitation, I would happily give him whatever he wants for the next 2 years.. beyond that we have to reevaluate. I would say the same with Ginobili when his contract is up next year.
-First of all, there are no franchise/game changing free agents that would come here anyway. We'll likely have to split a "max money" into several pieces for a few allstar caliber players.
-Duncan will sell tickets and keep the Spurs' playoff hopes alive for the next 2 years - even if his role changes dramatically.
-If we can't compete for a championship, the next best thing is to make the playoffs, sell tickets, sell merchandise, and stay above our ROI. Duncan and Ginobili would easily do that even if their age is advanced.
To me, its not even about respecting what Duncan has done for the Spurs organization, but strictly from a management's perspective, it makes sense financially.
Remember, its not always realistic to contend for championships year in and year out.. if we're not in a position to, we shouldn't force it. Therefore, until we have the opportunity to put together a championship caliber roster, we need to focus on keeping the team financially viable. That's why I really appreciate every point Timvp has made in this thread: keep our superstars happy, don't overpay role players, draft with caution (which the spurs arguably are the best in the NBA at doing), approach FA and trades with caution, and plan ahead.
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