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Again, I'm not going to hate them if that happens, I'll be disappointed for the reasons I mentioned from a fans perspective. But I'll also be comforted knowing I get to watch them because in the end it's not all bad.
I don't know if Duncan + ~MLE player makes them a contender. I know that as constructed its hard to say they currently are. In that case, you know they have to do something & ~MLE player at least offers potential and would signify an acknowledgement and effort to try and contend (It's a strange argument to me to say "the Spurs FO is great, unless you give them more money to work with).
I'm not using your quotes "against you", I'm just referencing that you seem to be somewhat bashing an opinion you just held not too long ago when I disagree on how much the variables have changed. It's not paying Tim that would bother me; it's the principles you once held that I still do. Dont put a product on the court that you aren't legitimately trying to improve with.
If the Spurs in a similar situation could pay Tim 30M a year for two more years and still have ~MLE type money to add to the roster I'm cool with that but that's not the reality right now.
Again, I'm not going to hate them if that happens, I'll be disappointed for the reasons I mentioned from a fans perspective. But I'll also be comforted knowing I get to watch them because in the end it's not all bad.
Thoughts -
1) Duncan *will not* ask for $20mil per year for two years. He wants a championship and he believes in getting a great core around him to compete. He knows that signing RJ to an extension hamstrung the team badly in the years when he was due his best payment days.
2) The Spurs *will not* lowball Duncan. They will not offer a low contract for the heck of it. I don't know what numbers are ideal, but anything between $8mil to $12mil and partial guarantees for last years should be on play.
3) Kawhi's emergence, Lorbek's availability and one or two vets on the market give the Spurs a lot of wiggle room in getting a decent free agent without having to overpay him. And that gives the Spurs as much wiggle room to pay Duncan duly for his efforts and his status as the franchise player.
I therefore feel that it is not an extreme polarised set of cases - wherein the options are: either let Duncan go if he demands too much or "overpay" him and risk not getting any decent help for him. I think the possibilities that are there somewhere in between are pretty good enough and pretty optimal enough.
who gives a ..this team is moving in two years and going to another city. The arena will be empty next year, Duncan will be a 100. They can pay him whatever they want, it's not money, I don't give a .
Go Anaheim Spurs!
rofl guffaw
Go trade your Spurs calendar in on a Mayan one.
Any specific examples?
Lorbek.
I particularly think the Euro argument is pretty weak. As a matter of fact, I would say its the complete opposite. Not only they have to mostly leave money on the table for a rookie deal. Under the Spurs they have to endure what's likely a full year of what amounts to not playing. I don't think that's enticing to Euros at all. Especially when there are other NBA teams without such policies.
Tbh agreed with timvp's OP. Ride out Duncan and Manu for as long as you can
But what really sucks when it comes to relying on Parker/Manu/Splitter is that they're all going to be playing basketball year-round when you take into account their national teams.
Can't say I fully agree. Euro-bound Gary Neal averaged 20+ mins in his rookie season. But I agree about the rookie deals. The big problem is the $$$, however few NBA organizations can compare to the appeal that the Spurs have overseas.
That's because Neal got an extended look thanks to Anderson's injury. Basically, the team didn't have anyone else to play. When it comes to bigmen especially, the situation isn't that rosy at all (Oberto, Splitter, Mahinmi, up to an extent Scola). I think teams like Memphis or Toronto who have played their euros right away might be more enticing destinations.
2004 NBA Draft withdrew his name from consideration.
2005 NBA Draft by the Indiana Pacers. But the Pacers did not sign him and Lorbek continued to play in Europe.
2011 NBA Draft the Indiana Pacers traded the rights to Lorbek to the San Antonio Spurs.
Real impact.
extenuating cir stances.
Splitter got hurt at a bad time.
Ian clearly wasn't ready off the bat.
Oberto joined a frontcourt that already had some depth - each of whom (except Rasho) had played a major role in a previous championship.
Tbh, I don't even think it's arguable. The Spurs have a great rep among Euro players. Lorbek, for example, was on record as saying he wasn't interested in playing in the NBA. But after getting traded to the Spurs, he now changed his tune.
Even Spanoulis said that the Spurs were the only team he'd play for. If you polled Euro players the coach they'd most like to play for, Pop would win hands down. Playing with Parker and Ginobili are also draws.
And as far as Euro players not wanting to come to S.A. because Pop doesn't play them in their first year, that really doesn't factor in at all. When a player comes from Europe, their goal is to cash in after their first contract. Parker, Ginobili, Oberto and eventually Splitter will be successful examples.
Splitter not playing last season was much more painful for Spurs fans than it was for Splitter himself. He got a year to get adjusted to everything before making his push for his big contract. Two full years of playing is more than enough time to earn a huge deal.
Comparing the standing of the Spurs in the eyes of American prospects and European prospects is no contest. The European prospects would be much more likely to sign if everything else were equal. And that's an advantage I think the Spurs should try to milk.
This upcoming summer the Spurs will have a chance to sign him. He never really considered signing with the Pacers.
You've changed
It's like that time Manny stopped being liberal (before he became REALLY liberal)You've changed
Lorbek
Go and play or not, for team like Pacers, who are in rebuild since brawl. This isnt good oportunity for one of the best european players
Spurs on the other hand , are contender. Duncan is half of fame, playing and training with him is an honour and great expierence.
Also there are many europlayers like Parker, Manu, Tiago even Neal, who was a teammate for Lorbek, who can help you adapt to NBA.
Pop is great coach. These are aspect, beside money, you consider, when you`re taking huge risk, and decide to go overseas.
Training camp?
Apparently, he was never ready.
Don't necessarily disagree. But that's an integral part of the enticing/not enticing part.
I almost choked when I saw this! Memphis and Toronto as more enticing? Memphis is .500 ball club with one good year in the playoffs that beat a team without their best player. Toronto has been a bottom dweller for years. How could anyone call them enticing?
I vaguely recall reading an argument on how some people were hoping for the Pistons to beat the Spurs in 2005 championship because of the number of foreign players the Spurs had on the team. Isnt it widely viewed that San Antonio has been a destination for foreign players due to Pop and the front office?
I would argue they used to be due to them leaning heavily on foreign players in the past (and mostly with good results). That's not necessarily the case anymore. These days there's at least one foreigner on almost every NBA team, with some teams having two or three. While the FO should get the credit for mining for talent there early and often, hiring Euro talent these days isn't the taboo it was 10 years ago.
It's the $$$$... I'm sure there's the case here and there (like Manu), who wants to prove themselves against the top talent or the top coach. Players that are skipping a large contract from Real Madrid to prove something in the NBA are largely a rarity.
I think it matters. In the case of Splitter or Scola (or Parker and Manu) its different because the Spurs held their rights. For players that are free agents, are going to get paid the same rookie scale in whatever team they sign for, having a better shot at showing yourself for that large contract down the road matters.
Frankly, warming up the bench is why VSpan headed back to Europe. If he wanted to be Tony's backup now, he would be (and the FO wouldn't have needed to go after TJ Ford or draft Joseph). He's not in the NBA because he doesn't want to be here.
I agree, but as I pointed out above, for Splitter was either signing with the Spurs or staying in Europe (or going through a Scola-like ordeal to get his rights traded).
I think most Euros would like to have at least a shot at the NBA of they're young enough. I don't think the Spurs is as much of a preferred destination as you think it is. For players drafted by the Spurs, I agree that changes, because they're basically tied to the Spurs or nothing. But I don't necessarily agree that extends to Euro players in general.
I started a thread about blowing the team up, at the beginning of the season. (Actually breaking up the Big 3, but that's a "blow up" in my mind.) After taking a day to think about Timvp's ideas about riding it out, I realized that I was being totally inconsistent with some of my other thoughts and posts, and that Timvp is right.
I get kind of irritated with people who act like Peter Holt should just open his checkbook and throw money at the team. It's a business. It's entertainment, but it's still a business. If the team can't make money, we don't get to have the NBA in San Antonio. It's as simple as that. Before we lucked into the No.1 pick that brought David Robinson here (and lucked David being a good guy), there was a real possibility of losing the Spurs.
The "scorched earth" route ignores that fact completely. If I had been thinking of it like a businessman, and not a fan, there's no way in I would choose the "blow it up" route, when there was any other reasonable alternative. And Timvp's roadmap, which is probably very similar to what Holt and the FO are planning, is definitely a reasonable alternative. I've been doing the same thing I complain about others doing - calling for Holt to ignore the money and the risk and think about nothing but the next championship in the shortest amount of time.
The one big thing that the scorched earth approach ignores is that if you had a bottomless bank account, and no salary cap, you could put together a team of All-Stars and STILL be far from a 100% lock to win a championship. Especially in the first couple of years, but even in the long run when you account for egos, injuries, etc. A few years back, the sportswriters boasted that Portland had two starting 5's. Ten players that were all good enough to be starting on most teams in the league. They didn't even sniff a championship.
With the players the Spurs have, and the fan base, it would be irresponsible from a business perspective to blow this team up. If it was my money on the line, I sure as wouldn't do it. There are some well-stated arguments on both sides, but reason wins out. I'd rather take my chances on the best team they can field, than take a chance on no team at all.
This isn't 2005 anymore, and frankly, since 2005 there has been an amazing influx of foreign players into every team in the NBA. If anything, 2005 opened the eyes of a lot of GMs in the NBA.
Memphis and their .500 ball kicked our asses about 6 months ago. They received and made both Gasol into key players of their teams right away. They both cashed in. IIRC, at some point they also had La Bomba Navarro.
Toronto has also been foreign friendly. Calderon, Garbajosa, Bustnami, etc.
When push come to shove, it's all about the $$$. All those guys already are leaving sure thing situations to have a shot at showing themselves and landing the big bucks.
Cir stances change, tbh. If one doesn't adapt, they run the risk of saying something like they won't be a fan any longer if Tim Duncan is paid market value.You've changed
Talking about change, I walked into a Kmart today afte years of not visiting one, and on the shoe aisle there was a poster of RMJ promoting $30 shoes. The poster read "Roger Mason Jr, professional basketball player". I almost can't contain the laughs, tbh
It's pretty much impossible to argue that "as much" amount ... which appears to be the heart of where we disagree. But as long as the Spurs are a preferred destination at all on any level, that by definition gives them a market advantage they will hopefully exploit going forward.
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