Let's Talk Rebuilding

[ElNono]

It's pretty much impossible to argue that "as much" amount ... which appears to be the heart of where we disagree. But as long as the Spurs are a preferred destination at all on any level, that by definition gives them a market advantage they will hopefully exploit going forward.

I think the Spurs were heavily dependent on that in the past because of their draft situation and the financials. I think getting some cap space and the new rules on the new CBA should make them less reliant on that. That said, this is contingent on this CBA lasting more than 6 years.

[K-State Spur]

Training camp?

For a new player - yep.

Apparently, he was never ready.

Talking first years only. But , despite the solid game 6, even Rick Carlisle didn't give him a ton of PT his first year in Dallas.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Toronto is probably the most euro-centric city in the entire league. Turkoglu bolted Portland for Toronto at the last minute mostly because his wife kept bugging him to take her to a city with a stronger Turkish community. While this city is freezing most of the year, I don't doubt that many European players would select Toronto as a top 5 NBA destination.


As for blowing it up, I just hate the word "rebuilding". I know it's something we're going to have to face, and that common sense says you shouldn't hang on to players past their prime, but with the Spurs I want all 3 of them to retire in their current jerseys.

I loathe the Celtics, but the fact that they are even considering trading Pierce makes me sick. Ainge has already ed that team enough with the Perkins trade, Pierce has earned the right to retire in Boston, the same way the Spurs should do everything to ensure Duncan and Manu retire as Spurs. (Parker as well, but I don't know if he'll stick around for a rebuilding phase, hopefully he does).

The rebuilding process shouldn't start till after TD retires. As long as he still suits up the Spurs owe it to him to make a legit effort at remaining a playoff time. And with the Big 3 intact that should happen for the rest of his career. The Spurs do draft wonderfully, and while it's frustrating to see how often we lose out on free agents, I'm sure Duncan and RJ's contracts coming off the books should help that situation.

I hope Duncan is willing to take $20-$25 million for 2 years, but whatever he wants, you just give it to him. The guy is going to have statues built of him all over the SBC Center. He owns the city.

As for the fanbase, look at Indiana, they finally have a strong playoff team (#3 in the East right now) yet they are in the bottom 5 in attendance. Granted, the Palace brawl may have forced the team to take an image hit with their fans, it also feels like once the team goes lottery, it takes years just to re-connect/win with the fans.

The Spurs had problems selling out games in the WCF of a championship year (2007), so yeah, you can blow it up, but seeing as how Holt is one of the least wealthy owners in the league, bottoming out before they have to wouldn't be a great idea and would arguably hurt his pocketbook more than people realize.

Anyways, I held off as long as I could before posting in this thread because this team, and this core means so much to me. I haven't watched anything from my 16 DVD championship boxset because I'm not ready to concede that it's truly over as long as the big 3 are in uniform.

[therealtruth]

I don't think players are lining up to play for Pop. They've seen how good players like RJ have become garbage in the Spurs system and probably don't want any of it.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Toronto is probably the most euro-centric city in the entire league. Turkoglu bolted Portland for Toronto at the last minute mostly because his wife kept bugging him to take her to a city with a stronger Turkish community. While this city is freezing most of the year, I don't doubt that many European players would select Toronto as a top 5 NBA destination.


As for blowing it up, I just hate the word "rebuilding". I know it's something we're going to have to face, and that common sense says you shouldn't hang on to players past their prime, but with the Spurs I want all 3 of them to retire in their current jerseys.

I loathe the Celtics, but the fact that they are even considering trading Pierce makes me sick. Ainge has already ed that team enough with the Perkins trade, Pierce has earned the right to retire in Boston, the same way the Spurs should do everything to ensure Duncan and Manu retire as Spurs. (Parker as well, but I don't know if he'll stick around for a rebuilding phase, hopefully he does).

The rebuilding process shouldn't start till after TD retires. As long as he still suits up the Spurs owe it to him to make a legit effort at remaining a playoff time. And with the Big 3 intact that should happen for the rest of his career. The Spurs do draft wonderfully, and while it's frustrating to see how often we lose out on free agents, I'm sure Duncan and RJ's contracts coming off the books should help that situation.

I hope Duncan is willing to take $20-$25 million for 2 years, but whatever he wants, you just give it to him. The guy is going to have statues built of him all over the SBC Center. He owns the city.

As for the fanbase, look at Indiana, they finally have a strong playoff team (#3 in the East right now) yet they are in the bottom 5 in attendance. Granted, the Palace brawl may have forced the team to take an image hit with their fans, it also feels like once the team goes lottery, it takes years just to re-connect/win with the fans.

The Spurs had problems selling out games in the WCF of a championship year (2007), so yeah, you can blow it up, but seeing as how Holt is one of the least wealthy owners in the league, bottoming out before they have to wouldn't be a great idea and would arguably hurt his pocketbook more than people realize.

Anyways, I held off as long as I could before posting in this thread because this team, and this core means so much to me. I haven't watched anything from my 16 DVD championship boxset because I'm not ready to concede that it's truly over as long as the big 3 are in uniform.

[ElNono]

For a new player - yep.

I don't think it quite works that way in other teams. Whether that's good or bad, it's debatable. I do think it's a factor that's taken into consideration.

Talking first years only. But , despite the solid game 6, even Rick Carlisle didn't give him a ton of PT his first year in Dallas.

He played more than he ever did in the Spurs, IIRC. I personally was never sold.
That said, I can't think he would describe his experience with the Spurs/Toros as anything but frustrating. Just the feeling I get, take it for what is worth.

[DPG21920]

Cir stances change, tbh. If one doesn't adapt, they run the risk of saying something like they won't be a fan any longer if Tim Duncan is paid market value.

Who said that?

[TD 21]

That's a strawman. I never said there's no point in being a fan if they're not contending. It's about what I call "The Known". Giving Tim 20M knowing the Spurs are done (another playoff flameout would likely signify that) comes off as an obvious money grab (something you adamantly were against tbh..)

I completely disagree. Another playoff flame out wouldn't at all signal that they're "done", it would signal that they once again failed to address their primary weakness from last season and that is starting power forward. Because they made strides to address other weaknesses, by inserting Splitter into the rotation and acquiring Leonard and because they'll have cap space and there's at least a decent chance they address said primary weakness, they should have an outside shot again next season. The day I'll consider them "done" is the day that Duncan and Ginobili no longer produce at an All-Star caliber level.

I know all this talk is just hypothetical, but Duncan isn't going to make anywhere near $20 million annually again. They probably will basically allow him to name his price, but they'll only do so because they know he's reasonable and won't ask for an obscene amount. I've been saying $10-12 million for a while, but considering the going rate for mediocre, let alone high end, centers and looking at comparable examples, $14-15 million might be more likely. Nowitzki is making roughly $19 million this season and Pierce is making roughly $15 million this season.

[DPG21920]

Agreed. I understand the economics, but it would be disappointing if they didn't address obvious needs.

[therealtruth]

Tbh, I don't even think it's arguable. The Spurs have a great rep among Euro players. Lorbek, for example, was on record as saying he wasn't interested in playing in the NBA. But after getting traded to the Spurs, he now changed his tune.

Even Spanoulis said that the Spurs were the only team he'd play for. If you polled Euro players the coach they'd most like to play for, Pop would win hands down. Playing with Parker and Ginobili are also draws.

And as far as Euro players not wanting to come to S.A. because Pop doesn't play them in their first year, that really doesn't factor in at all. When a player comes from Europe, their goal is to cash in after their first contract. Parker, Ginobili, Oberto and eventually Splitter will be successful examples.

Splitter not playing last season was much more painful for Spurs fans than it was for Splitter himself. He got a year to get adjusted to everything before making his push for his big contract. Two full years of playing is more than enough time to earn a huge deal.

Comparing the standing of the Spurs in the eyes of American prospects and European prospects is no contest. The European prospects would be much more likely to sign if everything else were equal. And that's an advantage I think the Spurs should try to milk.

I am pretty sure Splitter was not fine with sitting last year. There was an article at Express News where they quoted him saying he even questioned whether he had made the right decision to come over. I don't blame him. He says guys like Bonner/Blair getting minutes over him who were definitely not better than him.

[armynick23]

So would it be worth going after a batum, Lopez, or Hibbert this summer, or would you see them as over paid role players?

Batum would be a nice pickup, but is inconsistant at this moment
Lopez would be a project under tim and would get quality minutes
Hibbert would be our best and safest bet

[Manufan909]

I am pretty sure Splitter was not fine with sitting last year. There was an article at Express News where they quoted him saying he even questioned whether he had made the right decision to come over. I don't blame him. He says guys like Bonner/Blair getting minutes over him who were definitely not better than him.

Link?

Even after just reading all ten pages of this thread, I have to question the specifics. Assuming Lorbek comes over, how does the rebuilding Spurs big rotation work next year? Assuming Splitter averages 25+ mpg over his last 20-30 games (counting POs no matter how far the Spurs get), how would Lorbek and a PF/C FA fit? Hopefully Splitter and a non-ginger would lead the rotation, with Duncan and one of the new guys being the primary bench bigs. Just realized I didn't factor in Blair, but it's whatever. We'll have to wait for the trade deadline before we even know who will definitely still be on the team next year anyways.


I'd mention the wings/SFs, but I think Manu, Tony, Neal, Leonard, Green, and 2 of Joseph/Anderson/vet SF have that covered.

Concerning the thread itself, I would be okay with keeping Tim for 30-40 mil over the next couple years, but I hope he is on the low end of the spectrum. I can see a Splitter/TP/Leonard Big 3, backed by Timmy and Manu of course, go far in 2013-2014. But that is if Pop gives no more than 15 min to players who are useless on D, regardless of whether or not they're great at spacing or what have you. If they have multiple qualities like Neal, who has uber clutchness, sneaky driving ability, and 3pt shooting I'm okay with them getting around 20 min.

Also, I'm not, nor have I ever been, a backer of the "scorched Earth" route. I really hope that doesn't mean the Spurs can't get Hibbert this summer.

P.S. Did this thread make anyone else so excited that they almost wanted next season to hurry up and start already? There's a 13% chance that RJ will be gone, Lorbek will be primed to absorb Bonner's minutes, one of Splitter or Leonard will be in the starting lineup, Manu will have become accustomed to the steel in his shooting hand, AND both Bonner and Blair will have one less year on their contracts!!!

[therealtruth]

Link?

Even after just reading all ten pages of this thread, I have to question the specifics. Assuming Lorbek comes over, how does the rebuilding Spurs big rotation work next year? Assuming Splitter averages 25+ mpg over his last 20-30 games (counting POs no matter how far the Spurs get), how would Lorbek and a PF/C FA fit? Hopefully Splitter and a non-ginger would lead the rotation, with Duncan and one of the new guys being the primary bench bigs. Just realized I didn't factor in Blair, but it's whatever. We'll have to wait for the trade deadline before we even know who will definitely still be on the team next year anyways.


I'd mention the wings/SFs, but I think Manu, Tony, Neal, Leonard, Green, and 2 of Joseph/Anderson/vet SF have that covered.

Concerning the thread itself, I would be okay with keeping Tim for 30-40 mil over the next couple years, but I hope he is on the low end of the spectrum. I can see a Splitter/TP/Leonard Big 3, backed by Timmy and Manu of course, go far in 2013-2014. But that is if Pop gives no more than 15 min to players who are useless on D, regardless of whether or not they're great at spacing or what have you. If they have multiple qualities like Neal, who has uber clutchness, sneaky driving ability, and 3pt shooting I'm okay with them getting around 20 min.

Also, I'm not, nor have I ever been, a backer of the "scorched Earth" route. I really hope that doesn't mean the Spurs can't get Hibbert this summer.

P.S. Did this thread make anyone else so excited that they almost wanted next season to hurry up and start already? There's a 13% chance that RJ will be gone, Lorbek will be primed to absorb Bonner's minutes, one of Splitter or Leonard will be in the starting lineup, Manu will have become accustomed to the steel in his shooting hand, AND both Bonner and Blair will have one less year on their contracts!!!

I always support playing the best players. It shouldn't matter how long you've been here or what your contract is like or how nice of a guy you are. Ideally our big rotation would be TD and Splitter/Lorbek with really small amount of Bonner/Blair.