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Frankly, I think Tim's shot over Reid missing in game 2 against LA would have been more dangerous. Shaq was way worse than anything the Blazers could throw against the Spurs.
Agreed.
Not buying that. The worst that happens if MDM doesn't go down is the series is split 1-1 at Game 2. The Spurs had too much of a chip on their shoulders to let that series slip from them. Did it change the franchise? Sure. But the stakes were still much higher in Detroit in '05. It was a key Game 5. It was in Detroit against the reigning champs. It was the toughest road to the Finals against the toughest compe ion. Could they come back and win the series if Detroit wins that game? It's possible. But history tends to clearly show otherwise. The team that wins Game 5 in a 2-2 series goes on to win it all.
Don't get me wrong the MDM was a bad ass shot. I was doing flips in my living room when it went down. But the reasoning for it being the best shot ever tends to be more nostalgic. It's #2 on the list of best shots ever.
Frankly, I think Tim's shot over Reid missing in game 2 against LA would have been more dangerous. Shaq was way worse than anything the Blazers could throw against the Spurs.
I'd have to say it's second to Sean's Memorial Day Trey.
yeah I've got to agree with that.
The MDM wins style points since it's a Brent Barry range 3 pointer, toes almost out of bounds, etc.. but the Horry 3 was far superior considering the enviroment. Finals game 5 vs. Western Conference finals game 2. cmon man
If it's purely basketball then Horry's 3 is bigger: Game 5 of the Finals vs Game 2 of the WCF. But when you put everything else into context, as others have mentioned, the MDM is the biggest shot of franchise history.
They had ALWAYS been considered soft up until that point in 1999. It was a shortened season so who knew if their recent domination was just another hot streak that would fall apart. And most importantly, what makes the MDM shot important is that it symbolizes the redemption of the franchise's failures up until that point. Sean was a fan favorite and a fundamental part of the 90s teams...and was considered soft and so in that sense he played a part in defining all their good and bad qualities. By making that shot, he confirmed to the team and to the city and to the league that they were now for real. If someone like say Jerome Kersey hits that shot it carries way less weight. Yeah, it would have helped win the game but he wasn't a fundamental part of the iden y of the team for a decade.
So, Horry's 3 has none of that same context. Horry was basically a hired assassin that moved from team to team. He was not a part of the Spurs foundation. And so although Horry's shot obviously saved those Finals, it was not a paradigm shifting moment for the franchise by someone who had helped define the franchise.
I agree. If the Spurs lost that game 5 they are heart broken and lose in 6 IMo to Detroit, Horry with that shot saved them! I know MDM was up there and so on and changed the choker or loser tag the Spurs had, but cot damn that shot Horry did and that game was a miracle! Spurs lose if he misses, if Sean Misses they are 1-1 and it's still a shot.
Brilliant memories. Great thread.
One last thing - Horry's big shot, dunk and overall performance in Game 5 led the Spurs to their third championship. What that championship did was take them beyond teams like the so called "storied franchises" of the Knicks and 76er's who have only two championships to their name. The Rockets too. And definitely way past one-timers like the Warriors, Bullets, Trailblazers, Supersonics and the LOL Mavericks. It catapulted the Spurs to another discussion. And definitely they're exclusive now with four. (Hopefully five)
MDM was the best until '05. It's still special. But Horry's shot is the best.
Kerr on '03 is safe at third best ...............
But going with that logic, if Elliott misses that shot and the Spurs go to Portland and lose Game 3 (in which Duncan had 5 points, IIRC), everything could have changed. Portland had always owned San Antonio. Even in 1999, the Spurs ended that season basically unbeatable at home. But the three games they almost lost were that one to the Rockets (the Mario Elie Game) and then two to the Blazers. One was overtime and the other one I believe they won by one point. And then earlier in the season, the Spurs lost to the Blazers.
So heading into Game 3, the Spurs and Blazers would have been pretty damn even on paper. It shouldn't be forgotten that the Blazers back then defended Duncan better than any other team in the league. A lot of Duncan's worst games early in his career came against the Blazers. In fact, in that 1999 series, it was actually Robinson who was easily the best player on the team for the Spurs.
If the Spurs lose Game 2, then head to Game 3 in which Duncan puts up all of five points, the confidence gained by winning Game 2 could have easily propelled the Blazers to a win in Game 3. And for as great as the 1999 team was, they didn't have any sort of championship experience to fall back on. We could say they would have been able to handle the adversity of falling down 1-2 in the WCF but I just don't know for sure. At that point in history, Pop wasn't Pop ... he was basically AJ's yes-man. If the Spurs get into a tough spot, maybe AJ melts down blaming everyone and the cards coming tumbling down.
And then if the Spurs lose to the Blazers, the arena vote doesn't pass and Duncan leaves for Orlando the next summer. And there's no need to worry about championship #3 because there would have been no championships at all.
I don't put Kerr's shots in the top ten, tbh. In fact, I don't think Kerr's shots were even the biggest shots of that game. Stephen Jackson's back-to-back threes to make a 9-point game a 3-point game with nine minutes remaining were much bigger shots, IMO.
After Jackson hit those shots, the Mavs didn't score again for like six minutes so the Spurs were going to win that game with or without Kerr taking advantage of Nash's horrible defense.
I gotta pick Horry's three over the MDM. Maybe its because I was only a fan since 1993 so I don't have several decades of failures to remember but I felt like the 1999 team was so much better than any other team. Besides that, it was only game 2 and they weren't in the process of choking anything. They were down big in game 2 and came back but could never get the lead. A loss would have been tough but I don't think it would have demoralized us.
On the other hand, the Spurs were choking the series against Detroit away. ANyone remember Tim having to be consoled on the bench at the end of game 4? How the team just looked worn out and frustrated and how the Pistons looked super confident and tough? Plus, Tim has said that Detroit defended him better than anyone else.
If they lost game 5, I just don't see that team responding and winning games 6 and 7 against a confident defending champion.
timvp, we're talking hypothetically and in hindsight of course. I just think the Spurs had too much of a chip on their shoulder to let that series get away even if MDM doesn't go down. They swept it as it is. If it doesn't go down the team's mindset could have been totally different and they end up getting game 3 and Duncan doesn't necessarily end up with five points. Yes Portland defended Duncan well. Specifically the matchup with Sheed who coincidentally was also on that '05 Detroit team. The Spurs were going to win that Portland series.
I think we're looking at two different criteria to come up with our reasoning. You're referring to MDM as the effect it had on franchise history which is totally valid. I'm looking at that but also the effect that the 05 championship had on the Spurs with the NBA as a whole. This was a team that minus Duncan had no one from the 99 team. Plus, this was the finals and historically a very deciding game. If the Spurs lose Game 5 it's easy to see how they go soft and fold. That still happened even after the 99 championship. Especially against the Kobe/Shaq Lakers.
The Spurs are in a unique place in NBA history now. There's the Celtics, Lakers, Bulls and then there's the Spurs. The 05 championship, where Horry's shot was pivotal, began to place them in a different discussion in NBA history , let alone the franchise history.
I agree about Kerr, though. I was strictly thinking 3 pointers. Avery's shot would be way above Kerr and Jackson as a shot of any kind that was pivotal. Dunk, layup, mid-range or 3pt.
I'd put Elliott shot as the biggest. When he hit it, I knew they were gonna win the le, and they'd never had one before. It also gave Elliott some redemption, since imo he blew the 95 series. He hits one of two free throws in Game 1 and the Spurs lead the series and don't look back. Robinson got too much blame for losing that series when he single-covered Olajuwon while the Rockets always doubled him, and Elliott not nearly enough.
Horry's shot was huge, but I still think Spurs would've won Games 6 and 7 at home if they had to. They just played a bad fourth quarter in Game 6 because they were too giddy about "tonight's the night" and all that. In must win situations they were nails.
That team was tough as nails in big moments all playoffs long....except that span between game 3 and game7's second half. Game 5, the Spurs were sputtering in the 4th except for Horry and they still struggled in game 6. It was finally in game 7 when Duncan and Ginobili said it and brought the team home. IMO, there wouldn't have been a game 7 had we lost game 5.
I just can't see any way one shot missing changes a sweep into a series loss; to argue otherwise makes the Spurs le in 99 look like a fluke, when it's pretty clear that was a hungry team with the greatest 4-5 combination and arguably the greatest defense of all time. Portland had its share of good players, but in the NBA I'll always take a dollar over 4 quarters. There are exceptions like the Pistons, but not many; and those Pistons were a monster defensive team, which those Blazers weren't.
The MDM will always be my favorite shot since it was the moment that made every Spurs fan forget about the ghosts of past playoff failure, but there's probably a 50-70% chance they lose the Finals if Rob's shot rims out. Plus, the 99 team was healthy outside of Elliott. The 05 team Duncan was having trouble with the minutes due to his two hurt ankles.
Last edited by baseline bum; 03-03-2012 at 10:02 PM.
still sends chills down my spine
This thread is worthless without video..
I miss crowd reactions like that..
Oh, Horry..... how I miss him.
You should have heard the crowd when Stoudamire was shooting free throws right before that timeout. I have been going to games since the mid 80s and have never heard anything approaching what it was like in the Dome when he was at the line.I miss crowd reactions like that..
Good Lord.....it doesn't get better than that....good memories to be sure!!!!!!!
MDM. It's got it's own name, it's own acronym. Each year on Memorial day the local media celebrates it, "Where were you when the memorial day miracle happened?" This shot is LEGENDARY! I don't even remember where I was when Robert hit his huge shot, but I absolutely remember where I was for almost every game during that run in '99, and especially when Sean hit that shot. I remember thinking, "Crap, here we go again. C'mon Spurs!" Then Sean hits that shot. That entire run will be the most important chip for me and Sean's shot the biggest for me. That run gave the team that we all followed for all those years that first trophy, FINALLY! That shot was the moment, that precise moment when you could feel SA go over that hump, finally. That was when I knew it was real, when I KNEW that SA was doing it that year. All the trophy's after that are great, all the big shots were just that, big. But none have their own name, their own anniversary, and none will be remembered like the Memorial Day Miracle.
, if you want to got there this shot is the reason I picked my profile pick! The moment after that shot!!!
Memorial Day Miracle was easily the greatest shot..... anybody who says otherwise was probably just a little kid at the time...
As great as the MDM is, I think the only way you could rate it higher than Big Shot Bob's dagger is by evaluating the difficulty of the shot. There's no doubt that side-by-side, Elliott's shot is more technically impressive (well-defended, toeing the line, all that). And certainly, I don't deny its importance to the franchise in motivating the Spurs toward their le. But ultimately, losing that one game would not have significantly changed history that year. They lose their sweep of Portland, but still win the series comfortably in five or six, and move on to beat the Knicks, just as they did.
The margin of error for the Detroit series was infinitesimal. The stage was twice as bright, and the opponent a fearsome matchup. Horry's shot had not just a game riding on it (like Elliott's shot), not just a series, but a championship trophy. Horry got his open look and delivered the championship.
Elliott misses his shot, the spurs lose the game. Horry misses his shot, the spurs lose the trophy.
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