What is Tim Duncan's religion?

[ElNono]

^ Good to see you Black. What's your religion?

[DMC]

Nice summation and dead on. Science can neither prove or disprove the existence of God. I mentioned earlier that my faith is not tied to the origins of the Universe. It's an afterthought to most who believe in God.

Actually, it can disprove the existence of a particular god, simply by showing contradictions. We don't have to search high and low to prove that a square circle doesn't exist. It's a contradiction. Likewise, certain descriptions and characteristics of some gods conflict with other characteristics of the same god. For example, if a god is said to be omnipotent, yet has a longing, that god is lacking in something it desires. A god that's lacking isn't omnipotent. If the god is lacking out of it's choosing, then it's really not lacking. So it's a contradiction. That god cannot exist.

The problem with gods is that everyone has their own, so even though you show contradictions in the Biblical god, their god is separate from that part of the book.

[DMC]

Russ, the majority of people here on this thread are non-Believers and can't get past the thought that MANY believe in a higher being. Words like pink unicorn, spaghetti monster became used to subs ute what most Believers call God. In addition, God was called irrational and illogical and you can see how that argument goes.

I think everyone here is well aware that many people believe in some form of a god, unless they were under a rock since birth.

Many of us are growing calloused about adult make believe, especially when it attempts to influence our lives.

[all_heart]

Actually, it can disprove the existence of a particular god, simply by showing contradictions. We don't have to search high and low to prove that a square circle doesn't exist. It's a contradiction. Likewise, certain descriptions and characteristics of some gods conflict with other characteristics of the same god. For example, if a god is said to be omnipotent, yet has a longing, that god is lacking in something it desires. A god that's lacking isn't omnipotent. If the god is lacking out of it's choosing, then it's really not lacking. So it's a contradiction. That god cannot exist.

The problem with gods is that everyone has their own, so even though you show contradictions in the Biblical god, their god is separate from that part of the book.

Descriptions and characteristics are given by man to describe that god. These qualities would have to be proven to be completely true. What if this god exists but man has their description all wrong... then what? It goes around and around...

[all_heart]

I think everyone here is well aware that many people believe in some form of a god, unless they were under a rock since birth.

Many of us are growing calloused about adult make believe, especially when it attempts to influence our lives.

And I can see to how a non-Believer that would be annoying. Good thing it's a free county. Are you talking about the government?

[DMC]

Descriptions and characteristics are given by man to describe that god. These qualities would have to be proven to be completely true. What if this god exists but man has their description all wrong... then what? It goes around and around...

Nothing has to be proven before it's "completely true", many things are true that we aren't even currently aware of, however it can be shown beyond a reasonable doubt to be false quite easily.

[DMC]

And I can see to how a non-Believer that would be annoying. Good thing it's a free county. Are you talking about the government?

No, all theists are playing make believe. They've done it for so long that even those who don't have a firm belief often feel uneasy about it.

In this day and age, it's sad that so many adults still hold on to ancient myths and mysticism and have constructed a system of mazes in which to hide their reasoning and common sense.

[Fernando TD21]

So we can conclude what wise people already knew, that the existence of god can not be proved nor disproved and people are free to believe in whatever they want. Invisible guy in the sky, spaghetti monster, the dog who talks to you, I don't care what people believes, as long as they are not trying to force their belief to other people (or letting their belief affect other people's life) and as long as they admit this is based on faith and not reason.

And of course religion is not based on logical things, otherwise it would be science and not faith. Therefore I think religious people should stop saying "I know God is..." and start saying "I hope God is..." when talking about the characteristics of his/her god. That said, it's obvious that the more characteristics you try to attribute to your god, the less likely it is that you will guess it right.

What seems illogical is that people who claims to be "science people" often can't see the bigger picture when talking about religion...

[all_heart]

Nothing has to be proven before it's "completely true", many things are true that we aren't even currently aware of, however it can be shown beyond a reasonable doubt to be false quite easily.

I think what you described is called a theorem, which applies in the physical world.

[tmtcsc]

Actually, it can disprove the existence of a particular god, simply by showing contradictions.

You're talking philosophy now, not science. I'm saying that most who believe a deity created the universe believe that it did so out of nothing. Nothing being defined as the absence of Anything (Caps for emphasis), and not the physics definition which allows Nothing to be categorized as a vacuum or absence of matter (like outer space).

Science can not measure or account for the traditional definition of Nothing. So, most people of faith (who give this any serious thought) believe that before the Big Bang, there was Nothing. And for that Nothing to become Something (The Universe), it required a creator to do so.

[all_heart]

No, all theists are playing make believe. They've done it for so long that even those who don't have a firm belief often feel uneasy about it.

In this day and age, it's sad that so many adults still hold on to ancient myths and mysticism and have constructed a system of mazes in which to hide their reasoning and common sense.

Well if that's how you feel then it's your prerogative to not listen and move on. Try not to put yourself in that situation. Remember it goes both ways so it's best to politely disagree and go about your life. It's a never ending argument.

[all_heart]

You're talking philosophy now, not science. I'm saying that most who believe a deity created the universe believe that it did so out of nothing. Nothing being defined as the absence of Anything (Caps for emphasis), and not the physics definition which allows Nothing to be categorized as a vacuum or absence of matter (like outer space).

Science can not measure or account for the traditional definition of Nothing. So, most people of faith (who give this any serious thought) believe that before the Big Bang, there was Nothing. And for that Nothing to become Something (The Universe), it required a creator to do so.

Math does have a problem with "zero"/nothing. You can't divide it, divide into it or multiply it. Adding or subtracting it does nothing. So does that mean "nothing" doesn't exist?

[tmtcsc]

DMC, as much as you find the thought of logical people believing in God to be repulsive, there are just as many of faith who are disgusted at the thought of man being so close-minded as to think a God cannot exist because he can't confine it or explain it through laws of evidence.

[tmtcsc]

Math does have a problem with "zero"/nothing. You can't divide it, divide into it or multiply it. Adding or subtracting it does nothing. So does that mean "nothing" doesn't exist?

That's correct. However zero is not Nothing. It's zero.

[all_heart]

That's correct. However zero is not Nothing. It's zero.

Gotcha.

[Proxy]

Russ, the majority of people here on this thread are non-Believers and can't get past the thought that MANY believe in a higher being. Words like pink unicorn, spaghetti monster became used to subs ute what most Believers call God. In addition, God was called irrational and illogical and you can see how that argument goes.

Many people on this thread are of a younger, more educated and modern generation. Few of us, if any, "non-believers" are arguing the existence of god with the intention of taking the source of happiness away from others.

The ultimate goal of life is to reproduce/continue... religion, imo, had a big role in establishing the foundations of human morality. Dogma was a core philosophy that led the way to establish a code of conduct and sense of purpose. That being said, it does not belong in this modern world anymore. It is time for mankind to graduate from kindergarten and move on to 1st grade, leaving outdated ways of thinking behind.

Dogma is only a tool for the greedy, and a clutch for the uneducated to feel a sense of justification in rejecting intellectualism. Reproduction is our purpose as a living thing, but the quest for knowledge is our purpose as a human. The goal isn't to disprove of God, but to find the truth.

War, murder, rape, molestation, corruption, and power... a species has enough of this backwards thinking to handle on it's own natural tendency to produce errors and anomalies in the system... it does not need religion to act as a multiplier to these evils and work as control panel over the ignorant. Knowledge is key to reducing the evils in this world; not religion.

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

Many people on this thread are of a younger, more educated and modern generation. Few of us, if any, "non-believers" are arguing the existence of god with the intention of taking the source of happiness away from others.

The ultimate goal of life is to reproduce/continue... religion, imo, had a big role in establishing the foundations of human morality. Dogma was a core philosophy that led the way to establish a code of conduct and sense of purpose. That being said, it does not belong in this modern world anymore. It is time for mankind to graduate from kindergarten and move on to 1st grade, leaving outdated ways of thinking behind.

Dogma is only a tool for the greedy, and a clutch for the uneducated to feel a sense of justification in rejecting intellectualism. Reproduction is our purpose as a living thing, but the quest for knowledge is our purpose as a human. The goal isn't to disprove of God, but to find the truth.

War, murder, rape, molestation, corruption, and power... a species has enough of this backwards thinking to handle on it's own natural tendency to produce errors and anomalies in the system... it does not need religion to act as a multiplier to these evils and work as control panel over the ignorant. Knowledge is key to reducing the evils in this world; not religion.

Damn. I normally don't like or agree with Proxy, but he knocked it out of the park with this one.

Well said

[Hoops Czar]

I'm not sure what this thread, if anything, has to do with the Spurs

[Juggity]

Dogma is only a tool for the greedy, and a clutch for the uneducated to feel a sense of justification in rejecting intellectualism. Reproduction is our purpose as a living thing, but the quest for knowledge is our purpose as a human. The goal isn't to disprove of God, but to find the truth.

Impeccably stated

[Proxy]

Damn. I normally don't like or agree with Proxy, but he knocked it out of the park with this one.

Well said

[all_heart]

Oh man o man.. uneducated? Modern generation? Reducing happiness of the faithful... whew...... You couldn't be further from the truth. I mean that with every molecule in my body.

Yes in older times religion did some really bad things, that most modern peaceful religions don't agree with and wish to forget, but you can't possibly think a reasonable, peaceful person trying to live a just life that is also true to their Faith (scammers don't count) can somehow multiply evils like rape and murder. If you do you must be out of your mind. There are so many good people of Faith out there that everyday do good for the betterment of others but apparently you don't appreciate this fact or are completely blind to it.

Modern world? We haven't come that far, technology is just an array of tools to accomplish tasks and meet basic needs that have always existed.

The quest for knowledge is just one of many goals for man. IMO peace and goodwill towards man should be at the top of the list. Knowledge alone doesn't make people happy. There's a lot of smart knowledgeable people out there that are miserable. Doesn't matter how much knowledge man has acquired and accomplished, human nature will always exist and find ways to create problems. You also think educated and knowledgable people don't commit these horrible crimes you speak of?

Might I dare ask how old you are? You may think you are smart, but you don't' come off very wise... at all. There's a big difference between being smart and wise and a fine line between being smart and too smart for your own good. I don't know if you crossed that line because you really haven't proven you are very smart.

[all_heart]

Hey Proxy I thought your last paragraph was especially funny (produce errors and anomalies in the system) , this is for you. I'm out for the night, my educated ass needs to get some sleep.

[underdawg]

Damn. I normally don't like or agree with Proxy, but he knocked it out of the park with this one.

Well said

I would have to disagree. There's nothing to say that as religion has declined in America, there's less greed, crime, hate, etc. If anything there's more.

There is evidence that the family as a whole has declined in America and I don't see how changing or watering down Christianity or any religion for that matter will help repair the family in the US as a whole. I understand there are stats that show equal or worse stats for divorce among Christians, but for some reason I've never experienced that in any of the churches that I've attended. Most families have support from other Christian families during a crisis and when comparing that to my secular friends and their families, it's not the same.

Don't forget that a lot of the volunteering in the US comes from faith based organizations. 7 of the top 10 charities in the US are Christian based. It's something we're taught in the Bible and we believe in charity as a opportunity to serve a loving God. It's one of the most fulfilling things that I have in my life (even more than watching the Spurs win a ring).

As far as Christians being undeducated, that's very presumptuous. But he's right about Christianity being a crutch for Christians - I'd take it a step further as I look as my faith being a hospital for me and life would be so much harder if I didn't have the peace that comes from my faith in Christ.

Folks can insult me all they want, I've done about as much sin as anyone can (mostly legal) and I don't miss any of it. My only regret is that I didn't know then what I know now.

I'm glad that we have scientists that are pushing the envelope to discover the truth about our world and our universe - any Christian that would deny truth is contrary to the teachings of Christ, but I've seen nothing yet that would overcome my own discoveries of my faith. With that said - God bless y'all and try to be fair and considerate to anyone that has a different belief than you.

[Proxy]

Oh man o man.. uneducated? Modern generation? Reducing happiness of the faithful... whew...... You couldn't be further from the truth. I mean that with every molecule in my body.

Yes in older times religion did some really bad things, that most modern peaceful religions don't agree with and wish to forget, but you can't possibly think a reasonable, peaceful person trying to live a just life that is also true to their Faith (scammers don't count) can somehow multiply evils like rape and murder. If you do you must be out of your mind. There are so many good people of Faith out there that everyday do good for the betterment of others but apparently you don't appreciate this fact or are completely blind to it.

Modern world? We haven't come that far, technology is just an array of tools to accomplish tasks and meet basic needs that have always existed.

The quest for knowledge is just one of many goals for man. IMO peace and goodwill towards man should be at the top of the list. Knowledge alone doesn't make people happy. There's a lot of smart knowledgeable people out there that are miserable. Doesn't matter how much knowledge man has acquired and accomplished, human nature will always exist and find ways to create problems. You also think educated and knowledgable people don't commit these horrible crimes you speak of?

Might I dare ask how old you are? You may think you are smart, but you don't' come off very wise... at all. There's a big difference between being smart and wise and a fine line between being smart and too smart for your own good. I don't know if you crossed that line because you really haven't proven you are very smart.

Priests molesting young boys. War in the middle east. War justified by said deity.

Modern: Of or relating to recent times or the present

Knowledge is understanding. Tell me what else can lead a person out of true depression to true happiness. Anything else is a temporary facade. Morality is a human creation. There will always be said evils performed by anomalies and errors in the system. Knowledge/education prevents mass support, thus reducing massive wrongdoing by ignorant justification. Isolated crimes cannot be stopped. Things like genocide can be stopped.

And I give you an F+ on the troll/personal attack concluding your overall fail of a reply.

[Proxy]

I would have to disagree. There's nothing to say that as religion has declined in America, there's less greed, crime, hate, etc. If anything there's more.

There is evidence that the family as a whole has declined in America and I don't see how changing or watering down Christianity or any religion for that matter will help repair the family in the US as a whole. I understand there are stats that show equal or worse stats for divorce among Christians, but for some reason I've never experienced that in any of the churches that I've attended. Most families have support from other Christian families during a crisis and when comparing that to my secular friends and their families, it's not the same.

Don't forget that a lot of the volunteering in the US comes from faith based organizations. 7 of the top 10 charities in the US are Christian based. It's something we're taught in the Bible and we believe in charity as a opportunity to serve a loving God. It's one of the most fulfilling things that I have in my life (even more than watching the Spurs win a ring).

As far as Christians being undeducated, that's very presumptuous. But he's right about Christianity being a crutch for Christians - I'd take it a step further as I look as my faith being a hospital for me and life would be so much harder if I didn't have the peace that comes from my faith in Christ.

Folks can insult me all they want, I've done about as much sin as anyone can (mostly legal) and I don't miss any of it. My only regret is that I didn't know then what I know now.

I'm glad that we have scientists that are pushing the envelope to discover the truth about our world and our universe - any Christian that would deny truth is contrary to the teachings of Christ, but I've seen nothing yet that would overcome my own discoveries of my faith. With that said - God bless y'all and try to be fair and considerate to anyone that has a different belief than you.

Don't take anything I said as a personal attack. A vast majority of both sides of my family are very Christian. I care and love them very much, and I would never abandon them. The problems I allude to occur on a grand scale and a speak on broad, non-personal levels.

A lot of what I said can be taken as presumptuous and condescending, but I would venture to say that it can be supported by sociologically supported stats. The reduction of families and crime is something I don't think relates to religious affiliation. That is just human behavior. Divorce rates may rise due to a lack of christian values, but unhappiness with a significant other has always existed. I would hypothesize that crime rates rise due to an increase in technology and security.

Like I said, the scientific community isn't out to disprove God... just find truth. I'm not intending to insult you personally with my stance in this meaningless debate on a San Antonio Spurs forum... especially someone like you that finds happiness in it all. I would never want that taken away from you.