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Let Duncan go...
Tiago can put up his numbers for far less $$$
He's just waiting..Tim is done
Tim hanging around after this season just damages the chemistry of those ready to go tbh
Well, tbh, after Tim and TP both have left money on the table to help add pieces and seeing how woefully short and inadequate they still are upfront, I wouldn't blame Tim for saying "I'll take the money this time, thanks though".
Let Duncan go...
Tiago can put up his numbers for far less $$$
He's just waiting..Tim is done
Tim hanging around after this season just damages the chemistry of those ready to go tbh
timvp's never been more right and Harlem's never been more wrong.
"latter part of the top 10 C's"? Other than Howard and Bynum, who's better than him? The only other name I could understand is P. Gasol, who's really a center playing out of position most of the time.
"$8-9 million per season"? That's insanity. He's easily worth in excess of $10 million. Maybe you'd ideally like to pay him $8-9 (or lower), but there's no way he's worth that low considering the going rate for decent centers. And by decent, I'm talking a guy like Jordan, who's obviously not in his class. Sure, he's old, but we're not talking about a long term deal here. Short term, he's clearly worth that.
And all this talk about "if they give him 3 years/$38 million, they're basically telling Parker F U" is nonsense. One, I can't envision a scenario in which Duncan signs for more than 2 years and two, as if they'd be able to attract a significantly better player anyway. Let's say he's at or close to the same level next season, which is All-Star caliber. No different than the Jefferson's and Nene's of the world (who, by the way, have never actually been selected), who the vast majority pine for. They'd be hard pressed to get someone in that class. If you think they could get someone clear cut above it, you're delusional.
So two years, $25.4 million is okay in your book and wouldn't classify as a reward contract?
I don't think giving Duncan one extra year changes the equation enough that suddenly Parker should be given an option to be traded. Besides, if the Spurs went to Parker and asked him to sign off on Duncan getting $38M/3, he would instantly say yes. Spoiled Spurs fans may view Duncan as a burden (like the post two above this one) but there's no Spurs player looking forward to life after Duncan.
90%+ teams would have made the same choice including the Spurs.
Giving up millions is the best move basketball-wise but it should hardly be thought of as what's expected.
Well the Blazer's specifically made that move because they had nobody besides Camby at the center position.
And yes sadly you're right, but wouldn't you think loyalty or the chance to win another le would kick in?
It likely doesn't matter anyways though even if he did take a cut our front office would not be aggressive in Free Agency anyways.
do we all wish duncan would take mle money sure but it aint happening david got his 10 per duncan will be similar
Seriously? They had Travis Outlaw and Martell Webster at the 3. They made that move because Oden was a once-in-5+ years kind of bigman prospect.
Regardless they knew about his surgery/injury history before they drafted him, Durant was the obvious safe pick in comparison, now look at the Blazers, neither Webster or Outlaw remain on the team. And you say Oden was a once it 5 years pick, Durant was a once in a generation pick, you don't find that gifted a scorer every year.
I guess I am just surprised that timvp is failing to acknowledge this has nothing to do with Tim's actual value and everything to do with cir stance. In a bubble, Duncan's value is what he is saying contractually. But because of the cir stance & what is being sold to the fan (i.e. le contenders) this comes off as a money grab by the front office.
San Antonio isn't Phoenix that is selling the excitement of the game even though we aren't contenders. What SA is, is a le team or bust. I think it's more than unfair to saddle fans that have supported Matt Bonner, the re-signing of RJ & no 2nd round playoff wins as "spoiled". These fans were told that the goal was a le and they want the actions to sync up to that. Put the money where their mouth is. But when the same problems have arisen year after year after year now with nothing done to address them (while in turn you could argue them going backwards by trading a proven rotational player in Hill for a raw 20 year old rookie AND re-signing RJ and Matt), I think it's more than fair to look at the cir stance and say here's an opportunity to add to the team to give them a legit shot to contend; not just have a 3 year, going on 6 year farewell tour.
Tim by his play deserves 12-15M for the next two years. The situation the Spurs are in calls for him to take less. It is the ultimate catch 22 because we shouldn't expect Tim to give up money, but sort of do.
Hindsight is a of a drug...
Depending on the rest of the season, I would say that $20M-$24M for 2 years would be a fair contract.
And I wouldn't be surprised that Harvey is spreading some Spurs' PR bull with Duncan finally signing for way less and then medias making Duncan looks like God for having sacrificed tons of money.
I guess we'll agree to disagree.
I have a true problem if Spurs, who have used the "it will help the team to stay good" card with Parker to low ball him, give a reward contract to Duncan without blinking. That's a ed move morally wise.Parker should have least has the option of being traded if Spurs suck.
Shoudn't that be the other way around. I don't see how supporting Matt Bonner and the re-signing of Rj would make anyone spoiled. And furthermore, the only true bonner supporters are forum trolls and not even they supported the re-signng of RJ.
I approve any deal that might include trading Parker
Because they are good enough to get their money and still contend. Spurs are not.
So certain Spurs fans aren't spoiled because the Spurs were trying to win a le and didn't? I'm not following that logic, tbh.
The Spurs are above the luxury tax threshold even though there were easy ways to get below if that was their main goal. Cheapness was an issue in the past but it's not really an issue now.
The Spurs big move to address their weaknesses was the RJ trade. The ownership group agreed to take on a bad contract in an attempt to recapture the championship years. Good idea. Good execution. Poor results.
If you're talking about this season only, the problem is the Spurs don't really have the assets to make a worthwhile trade. All the cap planning over the years (giving Duncan less money, having contracts expire with unguranteed money in the final year, passing up potentially bad deals, etc.) gave the Spurs one shot to infuse a big contract into the mix ... unfortunately the front office picked the wrong player.
You classify the last three seasons as a farewell tour? That's an odd take, tbh.
And I don't think dumping Tim Duncan to go in another direction really matches your description of "an opportunity to add to the team to give them a legit shot to contend". You let Duncan walk, whatever money you save will mostly be spent trying to makeup for what was lost.
Hmmm ... yeah that's a pretty good way to put it if you base your expectations off of Duncan giving up money in the past.
Tbh, given how perfect the Marcus Camby comparison is, I still think you are a little low.
-Camby wasn't a free agent ... so if Duncan doesn't want to leave, he's basically in the same boat and his next contract would be more of an extension.
-Camby was the same age.
-Camby is a center who is productive per-minute but whose minutes are down.
-Like Duncan, Camby has an injury history to consider.
So if Camby got a contract that could be worth as much as $25 million over two years, how is Duncan's value less than that? Duncan's per-minute numbers are better and will probably play more minutes. He's obviously a better player than Camby. And then if you add in the intangibles built up throughout the years, two years and a fully guaranteed $25 million should be Duncan's absolute minimal "value".
Well Duncan took less money and that probably allowed the Spurs to give Parker his extension. So the argument is more complex.
I'm talking about the re-signing of RJ and Matt to save money; that wasn't a move to win, that was a move to save money. I don't fault them at all for making the RJ trade. I was damn happy and proud they did that. Once it failed, they bailed on the basketball side of winning and concentrated on the financial side and the fans have still shown good support. The Spurs haven't won a 2nd round game in years, yet are being told the goal is to contend (despite trading away a solid rotation player for a rookie). They still supported the team; that is what I mean by they aren't spoiled.
Spurs are slightly above the threshold now, but avoided taking much bigger hit in a 3 year window by signing RJ even though it crippled their ability to add to the team (even when TP took less money to help; same with Tim).
I classify the last 3 years (maybe two) with out a 2nd round round win as that since they have known for years they have needed more yet failed to address the needs.
Again, what I mean by cir stance is what is being sold. If you have the big 3, you are trying to contend (or should because you owe them and the fans that). I never said "dump Tim Duncan", but if you did that, it would signal a rebuild and it would be a different set of cir stances. It would signal something new (i.e. rebuilding team vs contending team).
RJ's $40 million contract will cost the Spurs more money than if they just had RJ play out his final year. And re-signing Bonner to save money? When did that happen?
Disagree. The Spurs wouldn't be above the threshold if their goal was to make money.
I can't agree that the Spurs aren't trying to win right now. It's just that winning a championship is really hard to do.
@ the championships-are-my-birthright Spurs fans.
The Spurs are more than $3 million over the threshold. If saving money was their goal, they could have just amnestied RJ or McDyess's guaranteed portion of his contract.
So on the same day you say the Spurs are going to win the championship, you also say they have been on an extended farewell tour. Interesting.
Portland overpaid Camby.
Determining Duncan's market value only using one player is flawed.
Well, even if Duncan didn't sign a maw extension, he has been way overpaid during that 2 years stint.
Then why did they re-sign RJ?
They could very well end up below the threshold this year. Also, if you can't agree they aren't trying to win, then please explain what they have tried to do to improve their chances since their last 2nd round win?Disagree. The Spurs wouldn't be above the threshold if their goal was to make money.
I can't agree that the Spurs aren't trying to win right now. It's just that winning a championship is really hard to do.
Just after you recently saying you couldn't support the FO for going for an obvious money grab? Interesting.championships are my birth-rite fans
I'm still a fan tbhThe Spurs are more than $3 million over the threshold. If saving money was their goal, they could have just amnestied RJ or McDyess's guaranteed portion of his contract.
So on the same day you say the Spurs are going to win the championship, you also say they have been on an extended farewell tour. Interesting.
Sounds about right.
I can't help but think that is too much money for Tim Duncan. I know he has done everything for this franchise. But shouldn't winning be the focus here?
Why is that too much? You know how they say that NBA is a "business" every time a player get traded? The same thing applies here.
They could clear enough cap to make room for a big time free agent OR they could make the safe business decision and keep Duncan with the Spurs. Duncan will be an acceptable ROI for them whereas a full on rebuilding process will not.
Winning is great but its not realistic season in and season out. Therefore, you have to rely on a business model to function as a successful business.
If Tim wants to win another ring, why wouldn't he take 5mil per and allow the team to try to bring in a max FA? We all know he deserves 10-15mil a year, but as has already been stated that won't allow the team to acquire what it needs to truly contend. Rock and a hard place.
My bet is he'll sign for 2yrs 24mil.
I think Tim would be more willing to give a discount if the FO could show him they were serious about using the extra cap space to get him some frontcourt help. Bonner/Blair just isn't going to cut it. Otherwise I say he should go for every penny.
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