On the eve of "Laker draft day," (aka, The Trade Deadline), I'd like to revisit

[midnightpulp]

some of the more memorable picks they've taken in the late 1st round and 2nd round in the actual draft over the last 15 or so years. (And yes I'm strongly implying this organization can't scout for and needs to build teams through high-profile free agent signings and suspect trades).

1995: Frankie King (37th)
1996: Derek Fisher (24th)
1997: Dejuan Wheat (51st)
1998: Sam Jacobsen (26th), Ruben Patterson (31st), Tobey Bailey (45th)
1999: Devean George (23rd), John Celestand (30th)
2000: Mark Madsen (29th)
2001: (picks traded away)
2002: Chris Jefferies (27th)
2003: Brian Cook (24th), Looooooooooooke (32nd)
2004: The Machine (27th), Marcus Douthit (56th)
2005: Von Wafer (39th)
2006: Jordan Farmar (26th), Cheikh Samb (51st)
2007: Javaris Crittenton (19th), Sun Yue Previn (40) Marc Gasol (48)
2008: Joe Crawford (58th)
2009: Toney Douglas (29th), Patrick Beverly (42)
2010: Devin Ebanks (43rd), Derek Caracter (58th) "Absolute steals!" - 21_Blessings
2011: Darius Morris (41st), Andrew Goudelock (46th), Some Speakchucker's name I don't feel like writing out (56th)

Out of all of those, only Ebanks, Morris, Goudelock, and Fisher are still with the team, and only Fisher turned out to be a player of any worth (Farmar and Patterson are decent at best and the Marc Gasol pick obviously came at the instruction of Memphis), but you can also argue his performance was bolstered by playing on stacked rosters for nearly all his career. Still, Fisher was a rock solid choice. Ain't gonna hate.

Does any NBA franchise work the later rounds worse than the Los Angeles Lakers?

Discuss.

[LkrFan]

some of the more memorable picks they've taken in the late 1st round and 2nd round in the actual draft over the last 15 or so years. (And yes I'm strongly implying this organization can't scout for and needs to build teams through high-profile free agent signings and suspect trades).

1995: Frankie King (37th)
1996: Derek Fisher (24th)
1997: Dejuan Wheat (51st)
1998: Sam Jacobsen (26th), Ruben Patterson (31st), Tobey Bailey (45th)
1999: Devean George (23rd), John Celestand (30th)
2000: Mark Madsen (29th)
2001: (picks traded away)
2002: Chris Jefferies (27th)
2003: Brian Cook (24th), Looooooooooooke (32nd)
2004: The Machine (27th), Marcus Douthit (56th)
2005: Von Wafer (39th)
2006: Jordan Farmar (26th), Cheikh Samb (51st)
2007: Javaris Crittenton (19th), Sun Yue Previn (40) Marc Gasol (48)
2008: Joe Crawford (58th)
2009: Toney Douglas (29th), Patrick Beverly (42)
2010: Devin Ebanks (43rd), Derek Caracter (58th) "Absolute steals!" - 21_Blessings
2011: Darius Morris (41st), Andrew Goudelock (46th), Some Speakchucker's name I don't feel like writing out (56th)

Out of all of those, only Ebanks, Morris, and Fisher are still with the team, and only Fisher turned out to be a player of any worth (Farmar and Patterson are decent at best and the Marc Gasol pick obviously came at the instruction of Memphis), but you can also argue his performance was bolstered by playing on stacked rosters for nearly all his career. Still, Fisher was a rock solid choice. Ain't gonna hate.

Does any NBA franchise work the later rounds worse than the Los Angeles Lakers?

Discuss.

Me thinks mid is a closet Laker fan. that !

[midnightpulp]

Me thinks mid is a closet Laker fan. that !

Nope. Only a hater would make an detailed thread like this.

[Baron Davιs]

Seriously Mid, you're just as pathetic as Kool & Luva.

SMH.

[midnightpulp]

Seriously Mid, you're just as pathetic as Kool & Luva.

SMH.

So which Lakers fan are you?

(Thinking Ginobili's Bald Spot)

[JamStone]

I think if you go through every team's "late first round and second round picks" you'll find that not many are made to last long in the league. By my count, 10 of those 29 picks got a contract passed their initial rookie contract. That's not a bad percentage for late first rounders and second rounders. There are a lot of misses and busts in every draft once you get out of the high lottery.

And two points of clarification. I don't believe Cheick Samb was a guy the Lakers scouted, as he was a draft day trade to the Pistons. I think the Pistons had the Lakers draft him for them. Same with Toney Douglas and the Knicks I believe. And Marc Gasol was not a pick instructed by the Grizzlies as that 2007 draft was before the Pau trade (I believe February 2008).

[Bill_Brasky]

Seriously Mid, you're just as pathetic as Kool & Luva.

SMH.

too scared to post under your real username

[midnightpulp]

I think if you go through every team's "late first round and second round picks" you'll find that not many are made to last long in the league. By my count, 10 of those 29 picks got a contract passed their initial rookie contract. That's not a bad percentage for late first rounders and second rounders. There are a lot of misses and busts in every draft once you get out of the high lottery.

And two points of clarification. I don't believe Cheick Samb was a guy the Lakers scouted, as he was a draft day trade to the Pistons. I think the Pistons had the Lakers draft him for them. Same with Toney Douglas and the Knicks I believe. And Marc Gasol was not a pick instructed by the Grizzlies as that 2007 draft was before the Pau trade (I believe February 2008).

And I was this || close to adding an "Inb4 Jamstone comes in here and somehow spins it in the Lakers favor," comment. But I thought, "Nah, even Jam knows the Lakers strike out in the draft."

Seriously though, just because 10 players managed to squeak by and got a contract doesn't mean they were successful draft picks. Compare the Lakers late round work to almost any other team and they don't look so hot.

The Lakers simply wait for the big free agents and tune out during the draft, unless there's a no-brainer pick to be had (Kobe, Bynum, George Lynch).

[Koolaid_Man]

some of the more memorable picks they've taken in the late 1st round and 2nd round in the actual draft over the last 15 or so years. (And yes I'm strongly implying this organization can't scout for and needs to build teams through high-profile free agent signings and suspect trades).

1995: Frankie King (37th)
1996: Derek Fisher (24th)
1997: Dejuan Wheat (51st)
1998: Sam Jacobsen (26th), Ruben Patterson (31st), Tobey Bailey (45th)
1999: Devean George (23rd), John Celestand (30th)
2000: Mark Madsen (29th)
2001: (picks traded away)
2002: Chris Jefferies (27th)
2003: Brian Cook (24th), Looooooooooooke (32nd)
2004: The Machine (27th), Marcus Douthit (56th)
2005: Von Wafer (39th)
2006: Jordan Farmar (26th), Cheikh Samb (51st)
2007: Javaris Crittenton (19th), Sun Yue Previn (40) Marc Gasol (48)
2008: Joe Crawford (58th)
2009: Toney Douglas (29th), Patrick Beverly (42)
2010: Devin Ebanks (43rd), Derek Caracter (58th) "Absolute steals!" - 21_Blessings
2011: Darius Morris (41st), Andrew Goudelock (46th), Some Speakchucker's name I don't feel like writing out (56th)

Out of all of those, only Ebanks, Morris, Goudelock, and Fisher are still with the team, and only Fisher turned out to be a player of any worth (Farmar and Patterson are decent at best and the Marc Gasol pick obviously came at the instruction of Memphis), but you can also argue his performance was bolstered by playing on stacked rosters for nearly all his career. Still, Fisher was a rock solid choice. Ain't gonna hate.

Does any NBA franchise work the later rounds worse than the Los Angeles Lakers?

Discuss.

Your Laker history is bout as smooth as the head on my . Mad props son...but me...I don't give a about the Spurs unless we talking tramp stamps and tongue rings

[DPG21920]

I think if you go through every team's "late first round and second round picks" you'll find that not many are made to last long in the league. By my count, 10 of those 29 picks got a contract passed their initial rookie contract. That's not a bad percentage for late first rounders and second rounders. There are a lot of misses and busts in every draft once you get out of the high lottery.

And two points of clarification. I don't believe Cheick Samb was a guy the Lakers scouted, as he was a draft day trade to the Pistons. I think the Pistons had the Lakers draft him for them. Same with Toney Douglas and the Knicks I believe. And Marc Gasol was not a pick instructed by the Grizzlies as that 2007 draft was before the Pau trade (I believe February 2008).

Do the Spurs.

[Killakobe81]

Marc Gasol alone was a great pick. All-star center that helped us land Pau which helped us win 2 les ...

Who gives a if we dont develop scrubs in to role players a la the Spurs. We are the Lakers everyone wants to play for us except for Dwight ...

[midnightpulp]

Do the Spurs.

Rarely. Spurs actually have basketball people running the organization rather than glorified Hugh Hefner wannabes and their offspring. Lol Jim Buss "Vice Pres. of Player Personnel."

[midnightpulp]

Marc Gasol alone was a great pick. All-star center that helped us land Pau which helped us win 2 les ...

Who gives a if we dont develop scrubs in to role players a la the Spurs. We are the Lakers everyone wants to play for us except for Dwight ...

Per Memphis's instruction. If they didn't steer Buss into that pick he'd have probably wound drafting another Sun Yue.

[DPG21920]

Marc was not a directive from MEM

[Killakobe81]

Per Memphis's instruction. If they didn't steer Buss into that pick he'd have probably wound drafting another Sun Yue.

LOL nice try ...

I notice you step up your troll game when the Lakers win a few games ...but this was pretty weak, tbh. You distorting the facts. But hey if it makes you fell better ...Lakers are STILL NOT contenders!!!

[La Peace]

rofl conveniently omitting andrew bynum to make a terrible point.

[JamStone]

And I was this || close to adding an "Inb4 Jamstone comes in here and somehow spins it in the Lakers favor," comment. But I thought, "Nah, even Jam knows the Lakers strike out in the draft."

Seriously though, just because 10 players managed to squeak by and got a contract doesn't mean they were successful draft picks. Compare the Lakers late round work to almost any other team and they don't look so hot.

The Lakers simply wait for the big free agents and tune out during the draft, unless there's a no-brainer pick to be had (Kobe, Bynum, George Lynch).

I didn't argue the Lakers are good at drafting. I'm just suggesting that if you look at the majority of NBA teams and take only late first round and second round picks, it won't prove to have a high number of quality players. There are exceptions. My guess is that Spurs would have a higher number of successful late first round and second round picks. I think the Knicks had some pretty solid success with guys like David Lee and Nate Robinson outperforming where they were drafted. But once you get out of the lottery in most drafts, it's not easy to have a lot of success.

Do the Spurs.

I think the Spurs are more of the exception than the rule.

And with that, I decided to look at the Dallas Mavericks, a successful franchise for over a decade who would have quite a bit of late first rounders because of that success.

1995: Loren Meyer (R1, #24)
1996: Shawn Harvey (R2, #34), Darnell Robinson (R2, #58)
1997: Bubba Wells (R2, #35)
1998: Ansu Sesay (R2, #30),
1999: Leon Smith (R1, #29), Wang Zhi Zhi (R2, #36), Gordan Giricek (R2, #40)
2000: Pete Mickael (R2, #58)
2001: Kyle Hill (R2, #44), Kenny Satterfield (R2, #54)
2002: Mladen Sekularac (R2, #55)
2003: Josh Howard (R1, #29), Xue Yuyeng (R2, #57)
2004: Pavel Podkolzine (R1, #21), Vassillis Spanoulis (R2, #51)
2005: n/a
2006: Maurice Ager (R1, #28)
2007: Nick Fazekas (R2, #34), Renaldas Seibutis (R2, #50)
2008: Shan Foster (R2, #51)
2009: Nick Calathes (R2, #45), Ahmad Nivins (R2, #56
2010: Dominique Jones (R1, #25)
2011: Tanguy Ngombo (R2, #57)

I tried to make sure I took into account draft day trades to include guys Dallas didn't technically draft and take away guys they drafted but traded right away to other teams. I'm not sure if it's all accurate but it should be close. This is a good team, good franchise that has had a lot of success in the league over the past decade and has good international scouting and has taken chances on international prospects. When it comes to late first round and second round picks, I don't see them having had much success either. I'd guess it's rare to, at least to the extent a team like the Spurs have had.

[midnightpulp]

rofl conveniently omitting andrew bynum to make a terrible point.

Lol at your be@ner brain too re ed to read that I specified the Lakers later round/2nd round picks and said nothing about lottery picks.

[midnightpulp]

I didn't argue the Lakers are good at drafting. I'm just suggesting that if you look at the majority of NBA teams and take only late first round and second round picks, it won't prove to have a high number of quality players. There are exceptions. My guess is that Spurs would have a higher number of successful late first round and second round picks. I think the Knicks had some pretty solid success with guys like David Lee and Nate Robinson outperforming where they were drafted. But once you get out of the lottery in most drafts, it's not easy to have a lot of success.



I think the Spurs are more of the exception than the rule.

And with that, I decided to look at the Dallas Mavericks, a successful franchise for over a decade who would have quite a bit of late first rounders because of that success.

1995: Loren Meyer (R1, #24)
1996: Shawn Harvey (R2, #34), Darnell Robinson (R2, #58)
1997: Bubba Wells (R2, #35)
1998: Ansu Sesay (R2, #30),
1999: Leon Smith (R1, #29), Wang Zhi Zhi (R2, #36), Gordan Giricek (R2, #40)
2000: Pete Mickael (R2, #58)
2001: Kyle Hill (R2, #44), Kenny Satterfield (R2, #54)
2002: Mladen Sekularac (R2, #55)
2003: Josh Howard (R1, #29), Xue Yuyeng (R2, #57)
2004: Pavel Podkolzine (R1, #21), Vassillis Spanoulis (R2, #51)
2005: n/a
2006: Maurice Ager (R1, #28)
2007: Nick Fazekas (R2, #34), Renaldas Seibutis (R2, #50)
2008: Shan Foster (R2, #51)
2009: Nick Calathes (R2, #45), Ahmad Nivins (R2, #56
2010: Dominique Jones (R1, #25)
2011: Tanguy Ngombo (R2, #57)

I tried to make sure I took into account draft day trades to include guys Dallas didn't technically draft and take away guys they drafted but traded right away to other teams. I'm not sure if it's all accurate but it should be close. This is a good team, good franchise that has had a lot of success in the league over the past decade and has good international scouting and has taken chances on international prospects. When it comes to late first round and second round picks, I don't see them having had much success either. I'd guess it's rare to, at least to the extent a team like the Spurs have had.

Not sure how referencing Dallas reinforces your point. They're a team who is often accused of "trying to buy it" and have made most of their great moves through trades and FA.

That said, I'd still trust their FO over the Lakers when it comes to drafting.

[cobbler]

Rarely. Spurs actually have basketball people running the organization rather than glorified Hugh Hefner wannabes and their offspring. Lol Jim Buss "Vice Pres. of Player Personnel."

And yet they took in less championships. Go figure.

There is only one bottom line and they wont catch us in our liftimes.

It really must suck to be you. Trolled on a daily basis by ESPN and the media. And then you eventually use individaul stats and MVP's (which are voted on the by the very people that troll you so nicely). But when it comes down to the bottom line and in a team sport its winning the last game of the season you have nothing!

I love my new showing up every month or so or weeks apart. And what do I read? The very same ole we all were reading 5 years ago each and every year since. You know, while they were winning chamionships and you were talking about how shiity they are and how your loser team has won nothing. But hey, keep talking about our team!!!!

[pass1st]

Rarely. Spurs actually have basketball people running the organization rather than glorified Hugh Hefner wannabes and their offspring. Lol Jim Buss "Vice Pres. of Player Personnel."

Lakers actually have a legendary FO, might not shine on draft day, but they make moves & have a lot of influence.

[JamStone]

Not sure how referencing Dallas reinforces your point. They're a team who is often accused of "trying to buy it" and have made most of their great moves through trades and FA.

That said, I'd still trust their FO over the Lakers when it comes to drafting.

I randomly chose the Mavs. They've had success for a long time like the Lakers. And I don't believe they're viewed as being horrible at drafting.

My point goes to using late first rounders and second rounders as your barometer. Success rate is already low with those picks. Unless you go through all the other 28 teams and show that there's significant success with late first rounders and second rounders for a lot of teams, I just don't buy your point using those draft picks when the success rate is much lower to begin with. I'm not going to go look at the other 28 teams. You're more than welcome to.

[NewcastleKEG]

Mid is right, Lakers suck

/Thread

[DJ Mbenga]

i am not redwood