What is Tim Duncan's religion?

**underdawg** · 03-19-2012

Originally Posted by DMC

Evolution is a fact. You just said so.

The rest is just quibbling over semantics.

microevolution is worthless without macroevolution

**DMC** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by underdawg

microevolution is worthless without macroevolution

Evolution, get some.

**DMC** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by underdawg

1 Corithians 14:34-35 - my understanding is that Paul is specifically addressing the church in Corinth regarding a problem with women causing disruption during their meeting. vs. 37 is not tied directly with 34 & 35, but for the chapter and the letter all together.

This doesn't mean that women were unequal or lesser than men - Galatians (written by Paul) 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Also, in Romans 16 Paul talks about and thanks all the women that have helped him. This is during a time where all of civilization treated women as 2nd class citizens, but Paul is commending them with much gra ude. If the apostles considered women 2nd class citizens, why were Mary and Mary Magdalene mentioned in Matthew as the first to see Jesus after his resurrection?

As far as the sacrifices and laws from the Old Testament that you mention as being ignored, they're not. Christ fulfilled the law - Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Those ceremonies and those rules that you mentioned were fulfilled by the atonement of sins by Christ - Romans 6:14 - For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Different cir stances for Israel in the Old Testament versus the Jews and the early church during the time of Jesus' life and after his death. God was in more contact with his people and that is why I believe that worship was more severe and physical in purpose.

Wow God was in "more contact with his people".

You're talking about thousands of years compared to just 30 or so.

It's amazing how God only cared for a couple people in the entire world. Imagine your life's work being so ty you have to kill everyone in it and start over.

**FuzzyLumpkins** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by underdawg

1 Corithians 14:34-35 - my understanding is that Paul is specifically addressing the church in Corinth regarding a problem with women causing disruption during their meeting. vs. 37 is not tied directly with 34 & 35, but for the chapter and the letter all together.

This doesn't mean that women were unequal or lesser than men - Galatians (written by Paul) 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Also, in Romans 16 Paul talks about and thanks all the women that have helped him. This is during a time where all of civilization treated women as 2nd class citizens, but Paul is commending them with much gra ude. If the apostles considered women 2nd class citizens, why were Mary and Mary Magdalene mentioned in Matthew as the first to see Jesus after his resurrection?

As far as the sacrifices and laws from the Old Testament that you mention as being ignored, they're not. Christ fulfilled the law - Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Those ceremonies and those rules that you mentioned were fulfilled by the atonement of sins by Christ - Romans 6:14 - For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Different cir stances for Israel in the Old Testament versus the Jews and the early church during the time of Jesus' life and after his death. God was in more contact with his people and that is why I believe that worship was more severe and physical in purpose.

That did not absolve you of all the laws. See thats what i love about Paul he tells people what they want to hear. The Romans want to eat their food and have supremacy of the state well from Paul now you can just ignore all of that pther stuff they said cause i got the direct connection to God. quite conventient

And Corinthians is not the only instance he patronizes women. he also does the same in 1st timothy chapter 2. Further he invokes the law. This stands stark in the face of your assertion that people are no longer beholden to the law. he also speaks for God quite often. I don't see God. All I see is Paul.

All you do there is find a passage that you use to give you the excuse to pick and choose what to follow. thats horse . i can get the whole notion of sacrifices no longer being necessary and absolution was no longer in the hands of the levites. After all his temper tantrum in the temple over their whole racket was what started all of his issues.

I dont get the hall pass from all the rules but it does not suprise me that christians would say that because that is what most of the religion is about, lack of accountability to anyone or anything. Even their own God.

You buy what paul says but i take it you don't buy what john smith said about jesus being in america while he was dead? why do you choose one and not the other?

**pgardn** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by underdawg

microevolution is worthless without macroevolution

So macroevolution did not occur? Living things were created separately... how?

Whats the mechanism?

This is where I have a problem. When one can use science to answer a question yet some choose the supernatural as an explanation because the science explanation does not fit religious beliefs. How about:

"The kids got cancer, its God's will, no chemo." Or when testing a medicine you choose a bug as your animal model instead of a mammal, because they are all created separately, it really does not matter what model we choose as they are all unrelated.

**underdawg** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

That did not absolve you of all the laws. See thats what i love about Paul he tells people what they want to hear. The Romans want to eat their food and have supremacy of the state well from Paul now you can just ignore all of that pther stuff they said cause i got the direct connection to God. quite conventient

And Corinthians is not the only instance he patronizes women. he also does the same in 1st timothy chapter 2. Further he invokes the law. This stands stark in the face of your assertion that people are no longer beholden to the law. he also speaks for God quite often. I don't see God. All I see is Paul.

All you do there is find a passage that you use to give you the excuse to pick and choose what to follow. thats horse . i can get the whole notion of sacrifices no longer being necessary and absolution was no longer in the hands of the levites. After all his temper tantrum in the temple over their whole racket was what started all of his issues.

I dont get the hall pass from all the rules but it does not suprise me that christians would say that because that is what most of the religion is about, lack of accountability to anyone or anything. Even their own God.

You buy what paul says but i take it you don't buy what john smith said about jesus being in america while he was dead? why do you choose one and not the other?

First of all, I don't pick and chose parts of the Bible to fit my needs. As I've stated earlier, I take the Bible as a whole. Although it seems that most of the attacks in this thread are from picking and choosing parts of the Bible to support the attack instead of addressing the Bible as a whole.

Have you even read the New Testament? I only ask that because it's hard for me to understand how you could come up with the questions you do regarding the Old Testament after reading the New Testament. Christ's ministry was pointing out to the Jews that their worship had become superficial only and their heart was evil. It is all about Christ being the last priest for those that believed in him after his resurrection. Paul spends almost the entire time in Romans dealing with how Christians were no longer under the law because Christ fulfilled the law for them and has given them grace to be righteous. He also deals explains why animal sacrifices are no longer needed in Hebrews 10:9-18. (vs. 18) - Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Please point out anywhere in the New Testament that Paul invokes the law over grace? 1 Timothy 2 is not it - Paul is giving instructions on prayer and I do not see a reference to the law.

Where does Paul patronize women?

I not only trust Paul as having been inspired by God, I trust the same of all of the authors of the New Testament. There were over 40 prophesies in the Old Testament that spoke of Christ and so I don't know how Christians could ignore the Old Testament, but that doesn't mean that Christians are obligated to physical worship of the Old Testament.

Why do you think it's called the New Testament? It is a New Covenant between God and mankind prophesized in Jeremiah 31:31-34, Malachi 3:1 and pointed out in Hebrews 8:10-11 and Matthew 26:27-28. It's a covenant that is no longer under a physical worship as was given to Moses, but a spiritual worship as stated in Romans 8:1-4.

What temper tantrum are you referring to? Jesus overthrowing the tables in the temple because there were people scheming to make money off of sacrifices that were supposed to be holy?

As far as John Smith, are you referring to Joseph Smith? Joseph Smith believed the book of Mormon to be above the Bible - I do not believe that can be harmonized. There is also no archaeological evidence to support Joseph Smith's claims and there is no harmonization with the Old Testament or the New Testament to support his book. That is why I don't believe Joseph Smith.

I do not understand your generalization of Christians as not being accountable to anyone or even God - to me that makes no sense based on what we believe and what we're taught but you're definitely en led to your opinion.

**underdawg** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by pgardn

So macroevolution did not occur? Living things were created separately... how?

Whats the mechanism?

This is where I have a problem. When one can use science to answer a question yet some choose the supernatural as an explanation because the science explanation does not fit religious beliefs. How about:

"The kids got cancer, its God's will, no chemo." Or when testing a medicine you choose a bug as your animal model instead of a mammal, because they are all created separately, it really does not matter what model we choose as they are all unrelated.

Yes, I believe that God created living things seperately (in that they didn't evolve into another species) and I also believe that he designed each living organism to adapt to its environment.

As far as chemo or medicine or whatever you remarkably feel that Christians are opposed to, I will be the first to tell you that if I had a loved one with cancer and the doctors felt chemo was necessary I'd be for it. And for the record, I also take trips on those metal birds in the sky too.

**BG_Spurs_Fan** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by underdawg

First of all, I don't pick and chose parts of the Bible to fit my needs. As I've stated earlier, I take the Bible as a whole.

Whoa there, that's a dangerous ground you're walking on pal. Anyway, not gonna attack you on this, I'd just like to know why do you dismiss other big religions such as Hinduism or Islam or any other religion for that matter? Why Christ but not Krishna? Do you believe you'd be the devoted christian you are had you been born in a remote chinese village or do you logically understand that religion is based first and foremost on geographical location?

Also, do you believe 99.9% of the japanese, for example, are going to because they dismiss your god, just like you dismiss theirs?

**underdawg** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan

Whoa there, that's a dangerous ground you're walking on pal. Anyway, not gonna attack you on this, I'd just like to know why do you dismiss other big religions such as Hinduism or Islam or any other religion for that matter? Why Christ but not Krishna? Do you believe you'd be the devoted christian you are had you been born in a remote chinese village or do you logically understand that religion is based first and foremost on geographical location?

Also, do you believe 99.9% of the japanese, for example, are going to because they dismiss your god, just like you dismiss theirs?

My belief in Christianity comes from personal experience, knowlege and my faith. I do not know as much about Islam, Hinduism, etc. as I do Christianity, but I continue to research other religions and will do so in order to understand them. That said, I think Christianity is unique in that it doesn't rely on the ability or works of the believer to be righteous. It accepts all of mankind to be sinners and short of the grace of God and only able to reconcile with God because of the work Jesus did.

I don't know what my cir stances would be if I lived in a different country and why that would influence the will of God. I've been surrounded by Christianity most of my life and it took me most of that time to truly give my life to Christ. I was not exosed to other religions as much as I was Christianity, but I was still aware of other religions and never felt called to any other.

As far as who goes to and who doesn't, I would be foolish to make that judgement because it's not mine. I know that Christ says in John 14:6 - I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Because of this verse and Christ's message throughout the New Testament, I believe that salvation is through Christ only. I don't know how this applies to someone that has never heard of Christ.

**BG_Spurs_Fan** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by underdawg

My belief in Christianity comes from personal experience, knowlege and my faith. I do not know as much about Islam, Hinduism, etc. as I do Christianity, but I continue to research other religions and will do so in order to understand them. That said, I think Christianity is unique in that it doesn't rely on the ability or works of the believer to be righteous. It accepts all of mankind to be sinners and short of the grace of God and only able to reconcile with God because of the work Jesus did.

I don't know what my cir stances would be if I lived in a different country and why that would influence the will of God. I've been surrounded by Christianity most of my life and it took me most of that time to truly give my life to Christ. I was not exosed to other religions as much as I was Christianity, but I was still aware of other religions and never felt called to any other.

As far as who goes to and who doesn't, I would be foolish to make that judgement because it's not mine. I know that Christ says in John 14:6 - I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Because of this verse and Christ's message throughout the New Testament, I believe that salvation is through Christ only. I don't know how this applies to someone that has never heard of Christ.

Good enough for me, cheers

. The only problem I have is your view that christianity is somehow unique, it's not at all.

**all_heart** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by underdawg

My belief in Christianity comes from personal experience, knowlege and my faith. I do not know as much about Islam, Hinduism, etc. as I do Christianity, but I continue to research other religions and will do so in order to understand them. That said, I think Christianity is unique in that it doesn't rely on the ability or works of the believer to be righteous. It accepts all of mankind to be sinners and short of the grace of God and only able to reconcile with God because of the work Jesus did.

I don't know what my cir stances would be if I lived in a different country and why that would influence the will of God. I've been surrounded by Christianity most of my life and it took me most of that time to truly give my life to Christ. I was not exosed to other religions as much as I was Christianity, but I was still aware of other religions and never felt called to any other.

As far as who goes to and who doesn't, I would be foolish to make that judgement because it's not mine. I know that Christ says in John 14:6 - I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Because of this verse and Christ's message throughout the New Testament, I believe that salvation is through Christ only. I don't know how this applies to someone that has never heard of Christ.

Well said. Thank you!

**all_heart** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by underdawg

First of all, I don't pick and chose parts of the Bible to fit my needs. As I've stated earlier, I take the Bible as a whole. Although it seems that most of the attacks in this thread are from picking and choosing parts of the Bible to support the attack instead of addressing the Bible as a whole.

For me it's all about the message. I can see how if someone is struggling with their faith attempts takes the Bible as a 100% literal translation how that can be troublesome. I don't get caught up in all that. Atheists will call that irresponsible, lazy, etc... Sorry they feel that way.

This has stuck with me ever since I was young:
I am the way, the truth, and the life. The only way to the Father is through me.

**Blake** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by underdawg

First of all, I don't pick and chose parts of the Bible to fit my needs. As I've stated earlier, I take the Bible as a whole. Although it seems that most of the attacks in this thread are from picking and choosing parts of the Bible to support the attack instead of addressing the Bible as a whole.

God clearly endorses slavery in the Old Testament

In what context could slavery ever be justified?

**Blake** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by all_heart

For me it's all about the message. I can see how if someone is struggling with their faith attempts takes the Bible as a 100% literal translation how that can be troublesome. I don't get caught up in all that. Atheists will call that irresponsible, lazy, etc... Sorry they feel that way.

This has stuck with me ever since I was young:
I am the way, the truth, and the life. The only way to the Father is through me.

It really is intellectually lazy on your part. I wonder if King James thought the Bible he put out was 100% literally accurate.

I bet he did.

**all_heart** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by Blake

It really is intellectually lazy on your part. I wonder if King James thought the Bible he put out was 100% literally accurate.

I bet he did.

All your opinion, something you should remember. Be careful when over thinking things.. look at what it's done to you, but hey if you are happier that way...

BTW I prefer the easy to read version. biblegateway dot com

**Blake** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by all_heart

All your opinion, something you should remember. Be careful when over thinking things.. look at what it's done to you, but hey if you are happier that way...

BTW I prefer the easy to read version. biblegateway dot com

If Jesus was the truth, how could he say that no man had ever ascended into heaven before, when one of the major OT prophets did just that?

It says this in all the bible gateway translations and is a legitimate question, unless you are too lazy to ask it.

**all_heart** · 03-20-2012

Originally Posted by Blake

If Jesus was the truth, how could he say that no man had ever ascended into heaven before, when one of the major OT prophets did just that?

It says this in all the bible gateway translations and is a legitimate question, unless you are too lazy to ask it.

You mean Elijah?