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Been saying this for 2+ years. Not a shocker that 95% of Spurstalk is filled with idiots saying how ty Matt Bonner is.
I thought this article in 48MoH, culling data from Synergysports to be pretty insightful in letting us know as to which aspects of defense are the Spurs' big men good at (individually) and which they aren't.
Link: http://www.48minutesof .com/boris...-market-part-2
On Matt Bonner for e..g-
A good read..Matt Bonner is the 4th best post-up defender in the league, per Synergy. I didn’t believe that at all on first glance, so I spent about 45 minutes watching every single post-up possession Matt Bonner has defended in the past three years. I came away shocked. His post-up defense isn’t pretty, but it’s quite effective. His foul rate is minuscule compared to that of the league average big, and he has a fantastic sense of when and how to lay off his man and use his size to bother the shot. He always keeps his arms up, and he moves in a sort of shuffling gait that more often than not confuses the post-up player. On the pick and roll, that’s generally less Bonner’s a en than it is Tiago and Tim helping out, but Bonner does his fair share of the work on those possessions as well. He keeps the big close and generally forces them to take shots from angles they aren’t very good at, and again, he does an excellent job keeping his foul rate down.
So, Aaron. Tell me. Why, if he’s got a few solid defensive skills, does Bonner have the reputation of a defensive sieve? Simple, voice in my head. The two most avidly watched types of defensive plays by the general populace — isolation and spot-up recoveries — are Bonner’s two absolute worst defensive categories, per Synergy. He’s below league average on isolations and only slightly above it on spot-ups. Worse, for him, is the way he allows shots in isolation and spotting up. He generally has a terrible time covering quick guards on switches, and gets embarrassed physically when an athletic player does a jab step or an up fake. His lateral quickness is poor, and although he’s essentially league average or slightly at both those categories, the downright hilarious way he allows points leads to a reputation that doesn’t actually fit with his defensive play, which appears to be overall better than even I had ever given him credit for. Next time you’re watching the Spurs, I ask that you pay attention to Bonner when players try to post him up. I have for the last few games. Guarantee you’ll be somewhat impressed, if not immediately thereafter amused when he blows an isolation coverage on the next possession of the game. A feast-or-famine type defensive player.
Been saying this for 2+ years. Not a shocker that 95% of Spurstalk is filled with idiots saying how ty Matt Bonner is.
Well, his defense in the past 3 games have been excellent, that's for sure.
Definitely a good read. Thanks for sharing.
Lol
Apparently, you didn't read.
Yea I did, but people on this board and Spurs fans in general believe Matt Bonner is the tiest defender in the history of big men, when in fact he has alot of great aspects to his defensive play. So, it's all relative to people previous rating of him.
matt bonner increases team morale
but not our team
the others
when other teams see an awkwardly running, t-rex armed ginger against them they gain all the confidence in the world
then they start draining insane shots they could never hit
i think ben wallace was draining deep 2s/3s vs bonner
bonner also gave up a 0.8 second shot in the phillies game to spencer hawes
when someone asked rasheed wallace how to beat the spurs he said
"pass the ball to whoever matt bonner is guarding"
its things like that that bring down spurs reputation and players think they an do superhuman things even when matt bonner is an average defender for his postion
just having a tatted up thug with a good vertical and no actual basketball skills would decrease the oppositions field goal percentage because of the lack of the Matt Bonner effect
1. he doesn't block shots
2. no one is afraid of him blocking their shots
3. he doesn't rebound
Given points 1-3, it's comical to say he's one of the best in the low post.
So Bonner would be a better post-up defender than say, Josh Smith or Kendrick Perkins ?
"Blair plays defense as more of a large, roly-poly guard than he does a center"
I've been through this mental gyration a few times before. Nobody can be as bad as Bonner is supposed to be, and still have positive +/- stats over a long period of time. It's a math function. If only bad things happen when the player is in the game, his +/- would be negative. Maybe his defensive ability has holes, but he obviously contributes more than enough to make up for that.
And then I remember the playoff series against Memphis.
I want the person who wrote this article to go back and look at those games, and THEN write a commentary on Bonner's post-up defense. I defended Bonner for a long time, but the images of that series are burned into my mind forever - and a lot of them involve Bonner. I can't say that he was worse than a pylon on defense, but I can't say that he was any better. If he performs in this year's playoffs, I'll give him credit. But not until then.
Players that really are below average at certain aspects that can be easily exploited by other teams have no place in a team that wants to win a championship. Some players you can "hide" their shortcomings by playing them behind poor offensive players or severely limiting their minutes. This gets overly amplified during the playoffs, where matchups dictate a lot of the gameplan.
And this applies as much to Blair as it applies to Bonner.
Oh, and Matt certainly isn't "the tiest defender in the history of big men". Whoever said that, if they did, were likely exaggerating.
Matt Bonner had an overall negative +/- in the playoffs... see, math still makes sense.
Yeah, but the part about Bonner's defensive prowess sort of springs a leak. I wonder of Bonner dreams about the Memphis series, where he's only wearing underwear while he's on the floor? Their bigs undressed him so many different ways, it would have to leave a mental bruise.
I guess when a guy turns around to face Bonner in the post and shoots a jumper over his outstretched arms, that cons utes a "spot up". Now when a guy does that two or three times in a row before Bonner is taken out of the game, and then that guy starts to hit jumpers over and over because now he's on fire, what stat covers that?
So true. At least not having RJ put out one fire...
id rather have bonner than blair
Apparently he has already done that.
What the writer says is that, Bonner has some good skills and some bad ones and the bad ones stand out."I didn’t believe that at all on first glance, so I spent about 45 minutes watching every single post-up possession Matt Bonner has defended in the past three years."
To those who question +/- stats, please note that adjusted +/- stats are very useful as they do not rely on box scores or some such, but actual regression analysis comparing production over the average "replacement player". Adjusted +/- are very effective, as compared to box score based stats therefore.
Because Bonner scores so well in those, there is something about him being good in the regular season as the opposition is not paying enough attention to his strengths. Unfortunately that luxury is not available in the playoffs, where his weaknesses are better taken advantage of and hence the drop in his value and production.
I understand that's your opinion, respectable and one shared by many here, but I was just thinking about this the other day and it's very debatable.
And I think you have to go to "ceilings" when you look at this. Let's pretend for a minute here that both Blair and Bonner play to their regular-season standards.
That makes Blair a 8/6 guy and Matt a 7/3 guy in about the same minutes (~20mpg). Now, add that Blair is really inconsistent. He can go for a 15/10 game (done so 16 times already) or be listless, where Matt is more consistent, but at the same time, has a lower ceiling (Matt only has 2 15/10 games as a Spur).
Rebounding-wise, there's little doubt that DeJuan is the better rebounder when he tries. Team defense-wise, Blair is the more rounded guy. Neither really play "long". Blair doesn't have the height, Matt is just too soft.
Offensively, Matt provides better spacing provided he can make a shot. Blair just has the higher scoring ceiling when he actually can make an impact.
So, it's not as simple as it looks. Obviously, everything would be better if they both could match or elevate their game during the playoffs. So far neither has been able to (In Blair's defense, he has played only about 1/4 the minutes Matt has). It's also clear that the matchup deficiencies still apply, and either or both are unplayable against certain teams due to some of the factors pointed above.
the difference between bonner and blair, bonner doesnt need to self create to get his offensive game going where it wont hurt the flow of the t eam when it needs points on the board cause u know he will start nailing them, most of his points come from the extra past anyway so its not like his taking away touches for other players who are ball dominant players...
as for blair who sometimes needs to self create for himself in the lowpost lies the fkn problem, we seen it many times where he hogs it and 3-4 consecutive plays with ty missed attempts hurts us more cause u rarely see bonner have 3-4 consecutive plays run for him. this is when it gets frustrated watching him forcing the issue trying to get his game going while he ignores the extra pass
The problem with Adjusted +/- is twofold. Because it relies on a myriad of other "non-boxscore" stats and regressions, it's much more prone to noise due to small sample sizes. I recall when it was introduced in 82games.com, they even pointed out that a full regular season was likely not a good enough sample size. The second problem is pretty much the same as regular +/-. There's an inherent skewing when player are paired (one very productive and one not so productive) and largely share the same lineups.
Now, don't get me wrong. I think Matt has shown his value in the regular season. Just pointing out what's the deal with Adjusted +/-, and why it's also an almost unusable stat to gauge playoff performances.
And I agree. DeJuan is very inconsistent. I know some nights you can't wait until he sits down. Other nights, everything he throws up there seems like it's going in. It's a huge gamble no matter what you do.
I don't know if DPPP is necessarily a strong indicator of anything other than that Pop has given Bonner a role that magnifies his strengths (in the regular season) tbh.
I read somewhere that because this stat measures more individual play than anything else, that it tends to reflect more poorly on players who play help defense. (Tim's numbers here show just how awesome he is).
Since Bonner for the most part just has to play positional defense and stick to his man, it would make sense that this stat would make him look good. Frankly, no thinking, not-trolling fans would dispute that he tries his best and does his role well.
Still doesn't make him a "good" defender in my opinion but this does show that he's not a complete liability out there. These numbers seem to match up with what I'm seeing on the court.
That said, he's still playing a little too much for my tastes.
Not necessarily. Beyond his focus, it seems like the games he plays well will mostly depend on his opponents. Against undersized Philadelphia or a team like OKC that doesn't have offense-generating bigs, he's fine. Against say, Dirk, not so much usually though he might surprise you during the odd game.
Play him against the other team's second string and he'll put up more consistent numbers and his poor defensive skills won't be as much of an issue.
If anything, most of the stats we're seeing make it clear that Blair is a *very* high end bench player who could occasionally start in the event that someone was injured or something.
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