Diaw or Lorbek?

[Mel_13]

It offers a roster spot, does it not? Just wondering how the 3.6 mil in freed up cash does not aid in re-signing TD or Green?

The Spurs won't need a roster spot badly enough to pay 3.6M to create one. Using the amnesty on Bonner only comes into play if Duncan's new salary pushesthem towards the luxury tax. I don't think that will be case, but it could happen.

[mountainballer]

Because both salaries would have to fit inside the MLE and that appears extremely unlikely. One of them would have to accept a salary that is well below market value.

Btw, using the amnesty on Bonner would do nothing to change the situation.

it might, but it's not very likely.
if Tim gets an extension of about 15M and Green is re signed to a significant pay rise (3M+), Spurs move close to the lux tax threshold and could be in danger to lose the full MLE.

just for the discussion. what do you think is the market value of Diaw this summer. I mean even considering a somehow strong performance. I have no idea. but as I said before, most teams will remember the problems in Charlotte. and even if he plays well with the Spurs, they will give credit to Tony and the Spurs culture to have been able to motivate him, but probably doubt that this works in a different environment. would teams offer him like full MLE?

[Mel_13]

it might, but it's not very likely.
if Tim gets an extension of about 15M and Green is re signed to a significant pay rise (3M+), Spurs move close to the lux tax threshold and could be in danger to lose the full MLE.

just for the discussion. what do you think is the market value of Diaw this summer. I mean even considering a somehow strong performance. I have no idea. but as I said before, most teams will remember the problems in Charlotte. and even if he plays well with the Spurs, they will give credit to Tony and the Spurs culture to have been able to motivate him, but probably doubt that this works in a different environment. would teams offer him like full MLE?

Even assuming that Diaw performs very well, it's very hard to guess what his market value will be. As I look at it, there is not one, efficient market setting his value, but 30 separate markets all responding to their own unique situations. It just takes one GM to make a, seemingly, extravagant offer.

All that said, I believe that Diaw would command all or most of the full MLE if he performs well for the Spurs. That means that the Spurscan't have both Diaw and Lorbek.

Btw, I agree with your scenario about a possible use for a Bonner amnesty and already posted about it.

[mountainballer]

another tought about the possible Diaw scenario.
would he agree to a 3 years contract of 7M, with a PO after the 1st year.
(I think this is allowed, isn't it?)
if the 2012-13 season works out well for him and the Spurs, he could opt out and would be re signed for the 2013 MLE. (or a significant part of it). it would be a risk on his side, but he does know that the Spurs will reward such a move, if he proves to be a good fit.

[Mel_13]

another tought about the possible Diaw scenario.
would he agree to a 3 years contract of 7M, with a PO after the 1st year.
(I think this is allowed, isn't it?)
if the 2012-13 season works out well for him and the Spurs, he could opt out and would be re signed for the 2013 MLE. (or a significant part of it). it would be a risk on his side, but he does know that the Spurs will reward such a move, if he proves to be a good fit.

I believe a player option has to be for the final year of a contract, so your scenario would have to be on a 2-year contract.

My opinion on these sorts of things always goes back to the fact that these are professional athletes. There are examples where small financial concessions are made in order to stay with a particular franchise, but money is almost always the deciding factor.

So while it remains possible, I don't see a 30 year old professional basketball player leaving 21M guaranteed dollars on the table to take 2M for one year with the possibility of getting paid later on.

RC is a clever guy, but I don't see how he fits Diaw and Lorbek into the MLE (assuming a strong performance by Diaw, including the playoffs).

[mountainballer]

remember the situation with Horry in 2004? Spurs turned down the 5 million option for his 2nd year and he still re signed, but for the minimum? I assume he could have got more from another team, but didn't he say something about pride and that he was disappointed about his first season with the Spurs and wants to prove something? however, of course you are right, professional athletes usually don't act like this and even if they did think about it, there is an agent around, who does care about his business.

maybe the whole thing is pretty simple. if Diaw is really good in the PO and in fact helps the Spurs to win a series or two, (I'm not talking about the ring) it's a no brainer to re sign him, even for the whole MLE and hope that Lorbek can be brought over 2013. (if he signs a contract with an affordable buy out in Europe, something that isn't totally impossible to negotiate).
if he is bad, Spurs forget about him and bring in Lorbek.
if he is just mediocre, they should still bring in Lorbek, because of the better upside long term.

[Mel_13]

remember the situation with Horry in 2004? Spurs turned down the 5 million option for his 2nd year and he still re signed, but for the minimum? I assume he could have got more from another team, but didn't he say something about pride and that he was disappointed about his first season with the Spurs and wants to prove something? however, of course you are right, professional athletes usually don't act like this and even if they did think about it, there is an agent around, who does care about his business.

The Horry case agrees with my premise. After a terrible 2004 playoffs (following up a terrible 2003 playoffs), the Spurs signed a 34 year old Horry to a minimum contract. After his heroics in the 2005 playoffs, a 35 year old Horry got a 3 year deal

maybe the whole thing is pretty simple. if Diaw is really good in the PO and in fact helps the Spurs to win a series or two, (I'm not talking about the ring) it's a no brainer to re sign him, even for the whole MLE and hope that Lorbek can be brought over 2013. (if he signs a contract with an affordable buy out in Europe, something that isn't totally impossible to negotiate).
if he is bad, Spurs forget about him and bring in Lorbek.
if he is just mediocre, they should still bring in Lorbek, because of the better upside long term.

Agree with all this.

[Scrub]

Regarding Diaw vs. Lorbek, Lorbek is the better player hands down. He also has very high BBIQ, low post skills second to none in Europe, nice shot, and is the ultimate professional...meaning he won't get fat after he signs the contract. IMHO Pop would like him.

What about Mirza Teletovic? He's two years younger than Lorbek and went undrafted. He's top 5 European PFs easy and VERY athletic for a white guy. He could have Scola-like impact...as would Lorbek if he went to NBA a little younger. Check him out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4IdpCl4Ypw

[Kobayagi]

Luckily, the Spurs won't need to make that choice as Lorbek has stated in the past he's not interested in going to NBA.

The only reason he would even consider it, would be to drive his euroleague price up.

[TD 21]

As of right this second, I'm actually higher on Lorbek. Higher ceiling and if you sign him to a multi-year deal, you don't have to worry about him eating himself out of the league during the summer. I love Diaw as a late season addition who is looking to up his value before he hits free agency but an under-contract Diaw has risk.

Diaw, though, will hopefully have have at least a couple months to prove how well he fits. If he keeps improving and becomes that poor-man's Horry that Pop has been searching for, it could come to the point that the Spurs have to take a gamble and try to keep Diaw no matter the cost.

I'm not worried about Diaw getting (even more) out of shape if the Spurs re-signed him to a multi-year contract. I don't think he'd pull that playing for an organization like this, but even if he would, I'm not sure Parker would allow him to. I could actually see them going so far as to have him give them his word that he would adhere to a program they set up for him to get in and remain in actual game shape, before agreeing to re-sign him. Because even if they want him back, I think he'll want to stay more than they'll want to re-sign him.

I think you're right in saying that if he becomes a poor-man's Horry, they'll re-sign him. He's more of a sure thing than Lorbek, who they don't know if he'll actually come over and even if he does, there's the question of if and how quickly his game will translate. Let's face it, he'd more than likely be the fifth big next season anyway, whereas Diaw would probably be the starting power forward. Considering the minimal age gap and the fact that they probably have two more seasons with Duncan and Ginobili to attempt to contend, I think they'd take the sure thing.

[BackHome]

Well looking at each position production and needs:

PG - WE have Tony who to me is having one of his best years as a Spurs. We have Patty who so far I have liked but will see how he does for the rest of the season. But it seems we got this position covered.

SG- Manu is getting older and a little slower and a little more fragile. I still love him but would not mind getting someone who can play perimeter defense and is able to take it strong to the rim. Anderson is gone and the biggest question is do we keep trade Neal and do we sign Green?

SF- We are set Jackson and Kawhi

PF - Blair has his ups and downs but is cheap and Bonner well can he produce in the playoff will determine if we keep him. I do like Diaw but agree he does need to keep the defense honest as far as him trying to score every once in while.

As far as Lobrek I like him but he will have to show us real fast if he wants to play in the NBA. I don't want to see him use us as leverage to get a better deal in Europe. So as soon as possible make him a offer and he can take it or leave it...NO GAMES...

C: Duncna and Splitter are good.

[TJastal]

Spurs are not dealing Blair as the numbers he puts up in the time he gets are unreal. He could being in a mid first to late lotto easy. Spurs have no interest in adding any more youth next year.

With Neal, Green, KL, Splitter, Blair and Joseph they have enough young guys. They also may bring Richards over next year so thats another young guy. Spurs like Diaw and if he gets in shape hes a great mismatch player at the 4. He also a guy you can run the offense through for short periods.

Spurs may go after another big in FA, Ian would be nice as he has show to be a solid player still very young and improving. He also is getting better about not fouling. They may resign Anderson but at this point I think he goes somewhere hes gonna get time and right now Green is a much better all around player.

Spurs may look to grab an early second rounder from GS maybe and draft a project big other than that I think we roll with what we have next season. Spurs do need to add some size behind TD and Splitter due to injury concern and let Blair and Diaw split time at the 4.

The numbers Blair gives up to the opposition are even more unreal.

[therealtruth]

The numbers Blair gives up to the opposition are even more unreal.

Blair is a guy who puts up good numbers on a bad team. On a good team he does more bad than good.

[TJastal]

Blair is a guy who puts up good numbers on a bad team. On a good team he does more bad than good.

Agreed.

Blair has a few positives including great hands that make him work alright in he starting lineup. He thrives on all the attention paid to the big 3. But you could put any guy in his place that has good hands and get the same "unreal" results, IMO. Like Splitter for instance. It's such a damn shame Pop never gave the Tim/Tiago starting frontline a chance to work.

[Bruno]

If Diaw has a good end of the season with Spurs, his market value will be close to a full MLE contract. Remember that with new CBA rules, the full MLE is only $21M over 4 years.

In that case, Spurs best odds at getting Lorbek too would be with the BAE. It's about $4M over 2 years. the second year could be a player option to make the contract more attractive. It's not a lot of money for Lorbek but it gives him the ability to get quickly a second and bigger NBA contract.

[Spurs da champs]

Lorbek is an unproven 2nd round pick who is 28 years old, how much money does he honestly think he deserves?

[Redshadows]

Lorbek is an unproven 2nd round pick who is 28 years old, how much money does he honestly think he deserves?

As much as Splitter deserves.

[Kobayagi]

Lorbek can make a load of money in Europe, so why would he take a huge paycut to play in a league he doesn't even like?

[angelbelow]

Lorbek can make a load of money in Europe, so why would he take a huge paycut to play in a league he doesn't even like?

This may have been true prior to the Hill-Leonard deal. But since his rights were traded to the San Antonio Spurs, Lorbek has publicly announced that the NBA is now an option.

Whether he's sincerely interested in joining the Spurs or he was instructed to say so to drive his own market value... we'll find out in a few months.

Lorbek said his rights being traded to SA has renew his interest in going to the NBA. Saying that, it's fully possible that he decides to finally stay in Europe.

[maverick1948]

I think under the new CBA, we could sign both. Diaw could be signed under the Non-qualifying vet clause. I know he may want more than this. This is from CBA:

(3)

Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agent (“Non-Bird”) Exception. A team may re-sign its own free agent who is neither a “Bird”
nor an “Early Bird” player to a first-year salary of up to the greater of (a) 120% of the player’s salary in the last season of his
prior contract, (b) 120% of the player’s applicable minimum salary for the current season, or (c) if the player is a Restricted Free

Agent, his Qualifying Offer amount


That would leave ALL the MLE for Lorbek, if we wanted to use it for that. Maybe TIMVP can find out about the Exceptions. I'm not sure about the exceptions or their value.


IMO, Diaw is going to find it hard looking for a team that is going to pay him much above the minimum salary because of his past problems with his conditioning and lack of desire to play. Even if he does continue to produce for the Spurs, other teams may look at it as TP's influence.


Tim is the key to how much we can spend on players. When he signs, we will have 10 players under contract. Tim, Tiago, DeJuan, Matty as bigs. SJax, KL at the SF. Manu, Gary at the SG and TP and Cory at the PG. Unsigned would be Diaw, Mills, Green and Anderson. IMO, we lose Danny Green to a bigger offer than we are willing to pay, and Anderson is likely gone, although I would like to keep him one more year to see if he improves. Signing Diaw and Mills gets us to the minimum of 12 active, but 1 short of the required number on the roster. Signing those two gives up depth at every position. So who would we want for the MLE? LORBEK

[therealtruth]

Lorbek can make a load of money in Europe, so why would he take a huge paycut to play in a league he doesn't even like?

Pop's treatment of Splitter last year doesn't help. Take a huge paycut to sit at the end of the bench so you can get over yourself while two guys you're better than (Bonner,Blair) take your playing time.

[TheSkeptic]

Pop's treatment of Splitter last year doesn't help. Take a huge paycut to sit at the end of the bench so you can get over yourself while two guys you're better than (Bonner,Blair) take your playing time.

Hate to nitpick but I'd also like to add that we're in season 2 and those same two guys he's better than (Bonner, Blair) are *still* getting his playing time.

Whether Lorbek wants money or a chance to prove himself, I'm not sure what he has to gain from coming over if this is what's likely to happen.

[Mel_13]

I think under the new CBA, we could sign both. Diaw could be signed under the Non-qualifying vet clause. I know he may want more than this. This is from CBA:

(3)

Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agent (“Non-Bird”) Exception. A team may re-sign its own free agent who is neither a “Bird”
nor an “Early Bird” player to a first-year salary of up to the greater of (a) 120% of the player’s salary in the last season of his
prior contract, (b) 120% of the player’s applicable minimum salary for the current season, or (c) if the player is a Restricted Free

Agent, his Qualifying Offer amount

Assuming a successful run with the Spurs, there is absolutely no way that Diaw signs for 120% of minimum salary.

[BackHome]

I don't get the reference of Diaw being a poor mans Horry? Horry has like six rings and known for killer three point daggers in the last second of games....Diaw is known for passing and being over weight?..........

[jjktkk]

Lorbek can make a load of money in Europe, so why would he take a huge paycut to play in a league he doesn't even like?

Being able to prove himself in the NBA. Pride.