Trayvon Martin - black kid armed with skittles killed in "self-defense"

[Wild Cobra]

The problem is that you can't "rule him out" simply because you can't confirm it was him.

This is true. However, 48% is not a certain "it wasn't him" under the cir stances. The voice is complicated, and there are ways that software can break down and compare signatures. Still, too many variables under the cir stances to account for. Notice he didn't say he compared a voice print of Martin's? I'll lay odds it would be less than 48%.

[GSH]

Trayvon Martin was buried in Miami with a gunshot wound to his chest. But otherwise, according to Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin for burial, his body showed no injuries.

"We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. "The hands -- I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there."


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...fight-on-body/

LMAO - just keep quoting bull from these idiots. Even MSNBC has been forced to admit that Zimmerman did, in fact, have an injury on the BACK of his head. Even they are smart enough to know that their first story is falling apart. Now they're re-framing the debate to be, "Okay, so Trayvon beat Zimmerman. But did he beat him ENOUGH to deserve getting shot?"

And now NBC is having to do an internal investigation, because they got caught playing a selectively edited 911 recording that made Zimmerman sound racist, rather than showing that he was just answering the dispatcher's question. Isn't that cute? One of our major networks, intentionally manipulating evidence to create even more controversy and racial divide? But, man, did it drive ratings.


Edit: BTW - Since it now is a given that Trayvon did, in fact, injure Zimmerman on the BACK of his head, why do you think he (Trayvon) would have been the one screaming? Even the "ear witnesses" have said that it sounded like someone in pain. How do you think Trayvon managed to get to the back of Zimmerman's head, if Zimmerman had a gun pointed at him, and had every intent of shooting him?

It's just like when people said that Trayvon was trying to get away from Zimmerman. Nobody would answer how the fat-ass older guy was able to run down the 17 year-old football star, when he was trying his best to run away. Of course it didn't make sense. But none of you wingnuts wanted to think about that, because it ruined the narrative.

[GSH]

ANYWAY, new witness did not indicate any head slamming on concrete. He said the fight was on the grass. Those who said that Zimmerman's life was facing death because of the head slam goes out the window.

Another thing the witness stated was that although he couldn't tell who was on top, he indicated that Zimmerman was the one on top. He said, he heard the shot and the person got up really quickly. He didn't see anybody sliding out from under the body.

LMAO - you mean the witness who first told AC that he was watching when the shot was actually fired, but then said that he didn't see any muzzle flash? THAT witness?

And several of the witnesses have said that he had his hand or hands up on his head, "like he was worried". But of course he couldn't have had his hand on his head because he was injured, could he? Not when you've made up your mind about what happened. I'll see if I can find the video where even Chris Matthews has to admit that Zimmerman had an injury on the back of his head. Does that seem like an injury that would happen to the guy on the top, or the guy on the bottom? Heh... you know the answer, whether you want to admit it or not.

[bobbyjoe]

LMAO - you mean the witness who first told AC that he was watching when the shot was actually fired, but then said that he didn't see any muzzle flash? THAT witness?

And several of the witnesses have said that he had his hand or hands up on his head, "like he was worried". But of course he couldn't have had his hand on his head because he was injured, could he? Not when you've made up your mind about what happened. I'll see if I can find the video where even Chris Matthews has to admit that Zimmerman had an injury on the back of his head. Does that seem like an injury that would happen to the guy on the top, or the guy on the bottom? Heh... you know the answer, whether you want to admit it or not.

- It's not very surprising that the audio voice experts are pretty convinced it wasn't Zimmerman's voice. There's a lot of cir stantial, "common sense" evidence that suggested it was Trayvon crying,

such as:

- The voice certainly sounds at first blush more like a 17 year old than a 28 year old (higher pitched)

- If you listen to the 911 call from the neighbor who's backyard the shooting occured in, there are clearly two gunshots. This was also confirmed by the most recent witness who came out and refused to identify his/her gender who said he heard "two loud popping noises". The screaming voice could be heard before the first gunshot, after the first gunshot and right up until the second gunshot.

- It just doesn't pass the smell test and common sense test that if Zimmerman was screaming for help, that he would continue to do so after firing a gunshot.

- The last yell on the 911 tape occcurs JUST before the final gunshot. I'm not a gun expert, but it seems that Zimmerman would have to be a ridiculously quick draw to yell "HELP" and then pull the gun out of his holster and fire a gunshot less than one second later.

- One other problematic issue with the idea that Zimmeran was the one screaming is that he was the one that was armed. If the guy was in such fear for his life that he felt Trayvon was going to inflict major harm on him and/or flat out kill him, why would he bother screaming for 30 seconds to one minute instead of simply firing his weapon?

- I wouldn't be quick to writeoff the opinion of a voice expert. Experts tend to know their professions much more intricately than non-experts. Special Prosecutor Corey has already said that she was hiring an expert in the biometric field to analyze the voice because she thought determining who exactly the voice was would be critical in determining whether to press charges or not and what level of charge to levy if she ends up going that route.

- Here is the 911 tape I was referencing above. I really implore anyone who's open minded about this case to listen and would love to hear your thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj4RHJ0taoc

- You will hear the first gunshot at :23 seconds and the next words out of the lady's mouth "See, he's shot".

- I've gone back and forth about this case, but the part that makes me think it just seems implausible that Zimmerman's voice is the one on the tape is that the first gunshot actually occurs in the middle of the scream for help. This would mean if it was Zimmerman, he was actually screaming "HELP" AS he was firing a gunshot.

- If you listen to this tape a couple times, you'll notice that the most high pitched and exruciating of the screams occurs right before the first gunshot. Can that really be a coincidence or is that telling us the reason is the most high pitched is that Trayvon saw that Zimmerman was going to shoot him?

[Sportcamper]

What kind of uniforms do self appointed neighborhood watch people wear?

I was being quite serious…The reports I read described Zimmerman as the captain of a neighborhood watch team…I would think they would wear some sort of uniform which would identify them as neighborhood security…

[Sportcamper]

I'll bet the software doesn't account for heart rate, adrenaline, sound at a distance through windows, etc. Then what type of phone? Land line, cell phone, etc. this will make a difference on the quality, and screaming has higher pitches than the nominal low pass filtering of voice systems that is around 3400 to 3600 hz.

nominal low pass filtering of voice systems that is around 3400 to 3600 hz

This is pure babble…
And for the record the guy who did the comparison was not contacted by the FBI or police department…Which is how it is done…

[TheProfessor]

- I wouldn't be quick to writeoff the opinion of a voice expert. Experts tend to know their professions much more intricately than non-experts. Special Prosecutor Corey has already said that she was hiring an expert in the biometric field to analyze the voice because she thought determining who exactly the voice was would be critical in determining whether to press charges or not and what level of charge to levy if she ends up going that route.

It seems you may not be too familiar with legal experts. As you mentioned, they are hired. They are paid for their professional opinions; if they are not, it is normally because they have not gotten enough experience to charge exorbitant rates and need to stack their resume. Juries are mistrustful of "hired guns" on both sides. Particularly where we're dealing with something like voices, where a voice exemplar in court may be sufficient for a layperson.

[Sportcamper]

Professor I disagree…Cases like this are distributed to several people not just one…Work performed for the F.B.I. and military are done pro bono, (for the good of the public)….A person working on such a project does so in secrecy…He does not blab his findings to the press….

[TheProfessor]

Professor I disagree…Cases like this are distributed to several people not just one…Work performed for the F.B.I. and military are done pro bono, (for the good of the public)….A person working on such a project does so in secrecy…He does not blab his findings to the press….

I get what you're saying regarding prosecution experts, and yes, they do tend to be viewed more favorably by juries. Here, at least at the state level, we're not dealing with an FBI crime lab or the military. There are also still issues with crime labs, like we've seen in Harris County, that have caused people to be su ious of their work.

If we're dealing with experts trying to identify voices, both the prosecution and the defense will likely turn to private en ies, which could lead to a "battle of the experts." You see it more in civil law, but it seems like a real possibility here.

[Fabbs]

It be causin a problem.

http://www.trbimg.com/img-4f74bc4c/t...120329-001/600

Trayvon Martin case: Texas student's cartoon causes controversy
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...tory?track=rss

[IX_Equilibrium]

[RandomGuy]

The Republican Base Exposed

by David Atkins

Charles Johnson at LGF once again dives into the comments at FoxNews.com so the rest of us don't have to. This time it's about the murder of Trayvon Martin, and we get to see the real driving animus behind the politics of Fox News viewers:


What a shame—a tragedy, really— because the dead lil’ gangsta could’ve used “‘A-FIRM-TIV AK-SHUN” to go to kollige an play footballz and make lotsa cash munny!”

[…]

Fast and Furious didn’t work to pass new gun control so now Eric Holder will try the race card.

[…]

No matter how crime figures are massaged by those who want to acknowledge or dispute the existence of a Dirty War, there is nothing ambiguous about what the official statistics portray: for the past 45 years a large segment of bIack America has waged a war of v i o l e n t retribution against white America.

[…]

Zimmerman was attacked by the man and defended himself with a gun. Zimmerman’s wounds were verified by police.

[…]

17 = child. LOL!!!!!!

Let the LIB word games begin.

[…]

Yet the “justice department” refuses to prosecute any voter intimidation that involves a blac k as the intimidator.

[…]

Why should anyone care about this kid? Because he is of color? People don’t value kids period. They are property. BTW, I am a conservative that cares a great deal about kids. We follow hundreds of cases each year, many white babies and children, none of them get attention. But he does??

[…]

Zimmerman felt threatened by Martin’s gang’s actions…this could have possibly lead to these terrible cir stances. Gang violence MUST BE STOPPED OBAMA!

[…]

Blacks can do no wrong, period! That is the DOJ’s excuse for becoming involved. 50+ years of being told they are special and en led and the gov’t’s only focus is to make it so!!

[…]

In any event, it appears to be a case of one sc u m bag Cuban-type (Zimmerman) offing some s my b l a ck kid (Trayyy-Vonnnn)…in some trash neighborhood….

but now, because the dead kid’s a kneegrow, we have:

the BIG BAD FBI on this “important” case…and

the usual BLACK-RADICAL-PROTESTERS who can’t mind their own business!

[…]

Gated communities exist because people are afraid….& negros thrive on crime…Look at our prisons.

[…]

Need that too….But Negr0s only have their welfare checks….and in any event can’t follow rules

[…]

What time do the riots start? Gotta get my popcorn and munchies ready for the “hood” burning!

[…]

Funny you never see them rally against the drug dealing murderers that control their neighborhoods. LOL!!!

[…]

How does anyone know what this 17 yr old said, Most likely he threw the race card out ” you stop me because I*M B L ACK” and then became threatning. The media alway plants the seed of doubt when when a B l ac k is sh ot by a caucasian

[…]

maybe his gang brothers incited violence too?

[…]

How’d the kid get into the “gated” community in the first place?

[…]

Them monkeys can jump!

[…]

This is going to be a tough case. gang violence is hard to prosecute. martin’s gang may even want to retaliate. this is scary

[…]

Let’s find out why the “po’ baby” was REALLY there!

[…]

The little thug ghetto monkey should have been home doing his homework, not out gang bangin.

[…]

I’m just glad Zimmerman didnt miss and hit an innocent bystander.

[…]

THIS IS PURE RACIST!! When do you ever see the DOJ investigate the death of a white child??

[…]

This is pure B.S I want to see the kids police record even if something is expounged also why was he removed from facebook it says account terminated.Why because his parents are trying to cover his tracks just like if you hit a bus they see Dollar signs.People have dragged data about Zimmerman out where is the kids past.Don’t say he was a good boy prove it.Ask yourself what is more likely to happen any 17 year old kid when you ask a question.A smartass reply I have never and I mean never seen a teenager run unless he did something wrong.I guess no crinimal has ever cased a place when they went to a store.It takes me aback the way all these facts are quoted by people who read one story on a issue.

[…]

Who says his gang wasn’t hiding near by?

[…]

he could be a good kid, but being in a gang doesn’t help his case

[…]

An unfortunate death, but when will DOJ investigate the death of a Caucsasian?

[…]

Here we go again— a LOCAL law enforcement matter (no federal issues) is being hijacked by the FEDS because the alleged “victim” is bl a c k! We all KNOW this kid was up to no good and now he’s feedin’ worms. Too bad-ha ha ha!

[…]

Last night on CNN Anderson Cooper kept referring to zimmerman as white when he knew he was Hispanic I wonder why

[…]

maybe then the kid was not bIack maybe Hawaiian like tiger woods then we can say s p i c s h o o t s Hawaiian

[…]

This has Bl ack racist Holder and his all bl ack racist “DOJ Civil Rights Div” written all over it.

[…]

Crack Skittles the new disguise

[…]

Skittles actually has a couple slang meanings. Could be referring to recreational usage of Coricidin. Also refers to a male getting lipstick marks from young ladies on the member. Taste the rainbow..

[…]

You think the DOJ or main stream will report zimmerman was Hispanic not White

[…]

That is all it was — just another n i qq er. No loss

[…]

He was slinging crack.

[…]

Is tea and skittles slang for guns and crack.

[…]

Skittles is actually slang for recreational usage of Coricidin.

[…]

This is what happens when you join a gang. kids need to learn from Martin’s mistakes

[…]

They should have a hunting season in Florida for these drug crazed gang members.

[…]

This could have had a tragic outcome. His gun could have jammed. Whew!

[…]

At least he didn’t chain him to the back of his truck?!?!?

[…]

How long will it take to get all of those little blk curly nappys out of the White House bedding so that the next POTUS can sleep without that Creepy Crawly feeling .

[…]

The picture is of an innocent choir boy designed to evoke sympathy for the “victum” and justify the skewed actions of a corrupt department of justice.

[…]

the b!ack community has created a sense of fear with the excessive amounts of cr!me and v!olence and the glamorizing and glorification of cr!mes and v!olence through c rap music (term used lightly) and most are rude, crude, nasty and give others the tough guy BS at ude.You people (term also used lightly) made your beds and now have to lie in them………don’t be angry with us or blame us you did this all on your own.

[…]

Hunting, maybe thinning the herd…

[…]

It is obvious the un-civilized B!ACKS who dwell in the greatist nation on earth have never wanted to be part of the TEAM, they CRY and P!SS and MOAN at every given oportunity about fairness and equality, While lining up for the free ride at welfare.
The United States is cursed with these baboons, Who will never gain the ability to stand up and make it on their own without our help.
They are the eternal re ed stepchild , needfull and helpless until the end of time.

[…]

Now the family of the kid has lost there way out of the ghetto.

[…]

ANOTHER TOOKY WILLIAMS, ABORTED.
GOOD SHOT ZIMMY. lol


It's important to be reminded of this when we see Paul Ryan and his crew push budgets that would leave 48 million uninsured. Sure, the plutocrats just want more money. But the Republican base will go along with it, because they're happy to lose their own healthcare if it means also denying it to the "young bucks." This is part of why Barack Obama is the most socialist president evah, despite even his own supporters' acknowledgement of his attempts to undermine liberalism itself.

There is no point in trying to compromise or bargain with these people. Bipartisan fetishists like to pretend that the policies on which Americans agree are much greater than the policies on which we disagree. That's just not true. There is an enormous disconnect between huge swaths of Americans over just what society we should have; just what sort of social views of women and minorities should direct our public policy; and what our basic economic, cultural, and social values should be. Those differences are growing. They are important. They are extremely relevant. They profoundly affect debates on seemingly non-partisan granular policy issues.

And they deserve as much sunlight as humanly possible.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2012/...idoatkins.html

[mingus]

I would bet my money on the screaming being Trayvon's voice. Unless Zimmerman never left puberty that is just too high pitched to be a grown man's voice.

[Fpoonsie]

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2012/...idoatkins.html

There's numerous idiots out there, butchoo seriously can't be putting too much stock into anonymous e-posting. As a longtime ST member, you should know better, RG.

[boutons_deux]

Former co-worker: Zimmerman lost security guard job after he ‘snapped’

The neighborhood watchman who in February shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was once fired from his job as a security guard for “being too aggressive,” according to a new report.

An unnamed former co-worker told the New York Daily News that George Zimmerman was paid under-the-table for providing security for illegal house parties between 2001 and 2005, but was let go because his anger issues “became a liability.”

“Usually he was just a cool guy,” the former co-worker explained. “He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us. … But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped.”



“He had a temper and he became a liability,” he recalled. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted. … It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/3...=Google+Reader

========

Just the kind of unstalbe asshole that the NRA and its legions of gun fetishists love to get locked and loaded without any background or other checks.

[MannyIsGod]

I had not heard that tape. No ing way I'm buying thats Zimmerman.

[CosmicCowboy]

I had not heard that tape. No ing way I'm buying thats Zimmerman.

So what does Zimmerman's voice sound like?

[JoeChalupa]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...usaolp00000009

Conservative pundit Bill Kristol on Sunday criticized media coverage of the Trayvon Martin case.

“It was right to raise alarms at first but now it is just demagoguery, I think, mostly on the side of those who want to indict the whole society for this death," Kristol said on Fox News Sunday.

Kristol explained that the real debate should not be about the case itself, but about the justness of Florida's Stand Your Ground law.

"This is the legitimate debate to be had about whether this Florida law contributed to this, whether that's a sensible law, and im not so sure it is. It seems to be there's traditional standard of self defense ... which this law goes further then and sort of makes it if you just feel threatened you can use deadly force. I'm not so sure we want a society in which that is the case," he said.

Stand Your Ground laws, which gives citizens the ability to use deadly force if they feel threatened, have come under fire in the wake of Martin's death. Florida is just one of 21 states with such a law. New York Senator Chuck Schumer last week criticized the laws and said that they should be investigated by the Department of Justice and Congress.

~~I hope this story stays in the news until the end.

[Wild Cobra]

nominal low pass filtering of voice systems that is around 3400 to 3600 hz

This is pure babble…
And for the record the guy who did the comparison was not contacted by the FBI or police department…Which is how it is done…

Yes... it is for a telephone system. The voice harmonics go higher. However, the more frequency range you use, the more data and that's needed too. That's why there is a low pass filter on telephone systems.

I worked this field. Have you?

[ElNono]

Yes... it is for a telephone system. The voice harmonics go higher. However, the more frequency range you use, the more data and that's needed too. That's why there is a low pass filter on telephone systems.

I worked this field. Have you?

What's the name of your audio forensics software?

[ElNono]

LOL...

No .

48% match... wasn't 0%...

I'll bet the software doesn't account for heart rate, adrenaline, sound at a distance through windows, etc. Then what type of phone? Land line, cell phone, etc. this will make a difference on the quality, and screaming has higher pitches than the nominal low pass filtering of voice systems that is around 3400 to 3600 hz.

The scream vs. a voice... Did they ask Zimmerman to scream for them like he was wetting his panties?

Sorry, I don't believe software can do what he tried to do with any reliability. 48% is probably as close of a match as they will get with anyone.

What's the name of your audio forensics software?

[ElNono]

BTW, the software used is available for purchase for $5K if anybody wants to give it a shot...

http://www.easyvoicebiometrics.com

[Wild Cobra]

OMG ElNono...

Do you understand what "too many variables" that "cannot be properly accounted for" means?

Did they confiscate all the phones used, and do a quality check of the audio through the equipment to see bandwidth and envelope delay?

When dealing with normal audio equipment and frequencies under 3600 hz, such technology is pretty reliable. Most audio equipment records the full human hearing range.

Then we go back to the screams under fear, adrenaline, etc. Screams do not match voice patterns, and I'll bet the only audio they have to compare Zimmerman with is his police call.

Believe as you wish. I'll bet in the end, you will find I'm correct here.

[Wild Cobra]

BTW, the software used is available for purchase for $5K if anybody wants to give it a shot...

http://www.easyvoicebiometrics.com

Be my guest. Have at it. Try comparing Martins voice as well. Using Zimmerman's as a baseline, I'll bet Martins voice scores lower.

[ElNono]

OMG ElNono...

Do you understand what "too many variables" that "cannot be properly accounted for" means?

I do. You've yet to establish that's the case.

Please present the audio recordings that were used with the biometrics software.

You never done any audio forensics work, have you?