A San Antonio shooting for you guys to argue...

[CosmicCowboy]

What evidence is that?



The fact there's no charges presented doesn't automatically means it's been established who "initiated the violence".

As a matter of fact, cases like Joe Horn included charges that later on a grand jury determined not to have sufficient evidence behind them to warrant a trial.

So, presenting charges without all the evidence isn't uncommon. The question is why hasn't he been charged yet.

Because there is reasonable doubt that Martin did in fact initiate the violence. It doesn't have to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. They already have all the facts/evidence they are probably going to get. Anyone with any information about the case has probably already come forward. The prosecutor obviously doesn't feel like they have a case to charge Zimmerman.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/04...ing-be-charged

So when will we find out whether Zimmerman will face charges?

We may find out something next week, when a grand jury convenes to hear witnesses and to decide whether or not to indict him. If the panel rules in favor of indicting Zimmerman, it would be the basis for his arrest. However, the special prosecutor assigned to the investigation by Florida Governor Rick Scott has said she may or may not utilize the grand jury scheduled for April 10 to indict Zimmerman.

There are several scenarios in which Angela Corey could decide not to use the grand jury. Corey could decide to file charges on her own if she believes the evidence is strong enough. She could also decide to not utilize the grand jury if she doesn't believe there is enough evidence to indict him, or if she needs more time to develop her case.

In Session's legal experts say they believe Corey will use a grand jury in this case because of the controversy surrounding the shooting. Grand juries are often called the "conscience of the community," because they are made up of public citizens. If the grand jury decides to not indict Zimmerman after hearing evidence, a prosecutor can deflect criticism back to the "conscience of the community."

That being said, it may not be that difficult to get an indictment out of the grand jury. The burden of proof is much lower in these proceedings because the threshold is probable cause, not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Probable cause is difficult to define in certain terms, but generally, probable cause exists where the facts and cir stances would warrant a reasonable person to believe that an offense was, or is, being committed.

[ElNono]

Because there is reasonable doubt that Martin did in fact initiate the violence. It doesn't have to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. They already have all the facts/evidence they are probably going to get. Anyone with any information about the case has probably already come forward. The prosecutor obviously doesn't feel like they have a case to charge Zimmerman.

Actually, what I expect is the prosecutor knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. The whole "who initiated the violence" is really irrelevant, because the statute (IIRC) doesn't address that at all (I asked for previous precent backing up such claim, and so far I've received none).

I also expect that if the prosecutor has such evidence, it would be in the best interest of the case to make it public. There's no national security secrets that need protection here.

But if this evidence is being reviewed by a grand jury, then I think that's fair and that's exactly what should be happening.

[CosmicCowboy]

Actually, what I expect is the prosecutor knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman acted in self-defense.

I also expect that if the prosecutor has such evidence, it would be in the best interest of the case to make it public. There's no national security secrets that need protection here.

But if this evidence is being reviewed by a grand jury, then I think that's fair and that's exactly what should be happening.

I'll agree with all that.

[Blake]

Are you ing serious? Do you REALLY not know how most law enforcement drug busts are made? They get the kid with the baggie to flip on the guy he bought from then set that guy with the pound up and get him to flip on his supplier, etc. right up the chain. It's all wheeling and dealing and plea bargains. you honestly didn't know this? Do you live under a ing rock or something?

You are saying the judge (still lol for saying the judge) is dropping a murder charge in exchange for ratting out a drug supplier.

Smh you are a huge ing idiot

[Blake]

you watch too much TV

lol

I can't even think of any movie or tv show episode where a murder charge was dropped in exchange for information or witness testimony.

[jag]

I'm not sure how anyone could deny the politics of the Zimmerman case. It was never about a poor, innocent black "kid". No one really cares. Innocent black people get murdered all the time and there are no marches and there is no outrage.

A 10 year old black girl was shot in the head here in Chattanooga, TN a few weeks ago. The girl was standing in her front yard talking with relatives and was shot by a couple of black guys who were driving by intending to shoot her uncle. It was out in the ghetto and no one would even speak to the police, not even her parents. Everyone in the hood just brushed it off like nbd. It was reported in news but, hey, it was black on black crime so who really cares, right? You can't really create a media and social frenzy painting black people as victims if they were victimized by other blacks people. I don't recall any mass media tweets or celebrity tweets on the 10 year old black girl.

Some liberals are too smart to actually buy into all this nonsense, yet they continue to play they game because it's what they're supposed to do. Conservatives do the same thing with their "causes" and as a conservative I find that incredibly aggravating.

As far as the Zimmerman case is concerned it's amusing to sit back and watch all the false indignation. All these people who are outraged by this tragedy and care so deeply.

[Winehole23]

I can't even think of any movie or tv show episode where a murder charge was dropped in exchange for information or witness testimony.

Whitey Bulger? a few of his crimes, including murder, were overlooked by his federal handlers in exchange for "information"...he is currently under indictment for 19 murders, according to the wiki. one of his handlers is also in prison.

A federal judge ruled on September 5, 2006, that the mishandling of Bulger and Flemmi caused the 1984 murder of informant John McIntyre. As a result, the McIntyre family was ordered to receive more than $3 million from the U.S. Federal Government. The judge stated the FBI failed to properly supervise their own agent John Connolly (convicted and jailed in 2002) and also failed to investigate numerous allegations that Bulger and Flemmi were involved in drug trafficking, murder, and other crimes over decades.[40]
In a 2011 interview, Stephen Flemmi recalled, "Me and Whitey gave [the Feds] , and they gave us gold."[28]

from the wiki

[CosmicCowboy]

lol

I can't even think of any movie or tv show episode where a murder charge was dropped in exchange for information or witness testimony.

It happens all the time. One guy flips on his partner in crime...the partner gets the needle and he gets 20 years for a reduced charge.

[JoeChalupa]

I'm not sure how anyone could deny the politics of the Zimmerman case. It was never about a poor, innocent black "kid". No one really cares. Innocent black people get murdered all the time and there are no marches and there is no outrage.

A 10 year old black girl was shot in the head here in Chattanooga, TN a few weeks ago. The girl was standing in her front yard talking with relatives and was shot by a couple of black guys who were driving by intending to shoot her uncle. It was out in the ghetto and no one would even speak to the police, not even her parents. Everyone in the hood just brushed it off like nbd. It was reported in news but, hey, it was black on black crime so who really cares, right? You can't really create a media and social frenzy painting black people as victims if they were victimized by other blacks people. I don't recall any mass media tweets or celebrity tweets on the 10 year old black girl.

Some liberals are too smart to actually buy into all this nonsense, yet they continue to play they game because it's what they're supposed to do. Conservatives do the same thing with their "causes" and as a conservative I find that incredibly aggravating.

As far as the Zimmerman case is concerned it's amusing to sit back and watch all the false indignation. All these people who are outraged by this tragedy and care so deeply.

It is about how the case was handled.

[jag]

It is about how the case was handled.

You're an idiot if you think it was that simple.

[JoeChalupa]

You're an idiot if you think it was that simple.

You're an idiot if you believe your own BS.

[jag]

You're an idiot if you believe your own BS.

Tell me how outraged you are over how the case was/has been handled.

[JoeChalupa]

Tell me how outraged you are over how the case was/has been handled.

Read this and the Martin thread and you'll find my posts.

[jag]

Read this and the Martin thread and you'll find my posts.

I usually skip over your posts for a reason. Why couldn't you just answer the simple question?

Are you outraged over how the case was/has been handled?

[JoeChalupa]

I usually skip over your posts for a reason. Why couldn't you just answer the simple question?

Are you outraged over how the case was/has been handled?

Why can't you just simply read?

[JoeChalupa]

I've grasped this theory clearly and I do feel that all this controversy could have been avoided if the police would have simply done a better investigation at the scene. They should have examined Martin's body for evidence and also done tests on his clothing that may have shed some light on how close Zimmerman was when he shot him. Also Zimmerman's clothing should have been tested for the same reasons. The fact that they pretty much just took Zimmerman's word as facts is the real issue, IMHO.
I think Zimmerman took on more than he could handle and Martin was simply defending himself against an unknown man who was pursuing him.
Manslaughter.

[jag]

Why can't you just simply read?

Because your opinion doesn't actually matter. If you'd rather not answer then so be it.

[CosmicCowboy]

I've grasped this theory clearly and I do feel that all this controversy could have been avoided if the police would have simply done a better investigation at the scene. They should have examined Martin's body for evidence and also done tests on his clothing that may have shed some light on how close Zimmerman was when he shot him. Also Zimmerman's clothing should have been tested for the same reasons. The fact that they pretty much just took Zimmerman's word as facts is the real issue, IMHO.
I think Zimmerman took on more than he could handle and Martin was simply defending himself against an unknown man who was pursuing him.
Manslaughter.

Why are you the only one that seems to know what the police did or did not do that night?

[jag]

I've grasped this theory clearly and I do feel that all this controversy could have been avoided if the police would have simply done a better investigation at the scene. They should have examined Martin's body for evidence and also done tests on his clothing that may have shed some light on how close Zimmerman was when he shot him. Also Zimmerman's clothing should have been tested for the same reasons. The fact that they pretty much just took Zimmerman's word as facts is the real issue, IMHO.
I think Zimmerman took on more than he could handle and Martin was simply defending himself against an unknown man who was pursuing him.
Manslaughter.

Read the police report. Read about the laws regarding such cases and when and why the police would perform certain tests. It seems you're more concerned with the controversy surrounding the case than you are with the poor, innocent black "kid". I find that interesting considering where the controversy came from.

[ChumpDumper]

Being intellectually dishonest is you claiming Zimmerman should be convicted of murder while defending this shooter getting off.

Who is defending this shooter's getting off?

[JoeChalupa]

Why are you the only one that seems to know what the police did or did not do that night?

Because if the police had done those things there would be a report on it. If they did do tests on the clothing then show the results. It is just my opinion, not that it matters so some, that a better investigation should have been conducted anytime there a killing involved.
And you apparently take the word of a witness as the absolute truth.

[Blake]

Whitey Bulger? a few of his crimes, including murder, were overlooked by his federal handlers in exchange for "information"...he is currently under indictment for 19 murders, according to the wiki.


from the wiki

None of those 19 murder charges have been dropped thanks to his informant status.

The judge even noted the FBI ed that situation up and made the govt pay damages to one of the victims family. The judge also noted the FBI should have pursued allegations of murder much more vigorously than they did.

[jag]

Because if the police had done those things there would be a report on it. If they did do tests on the clothing then show the results. It is just my opinion, not that it matters so some, that a better investigation should have been conducted anytime there a killing involved.
And you apparently take the word of a witness as the absolute truth.

I love how people feel they are en led to all the evidence in an ongoing investigation.

[CosmicCowboy]

I love how people feel they are en led to all the evidence in an ongoing investigation.

That was my point that Joe apparently missed. Who really knows what the police did or didn't do that night?